Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

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Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Tp3 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:58 pm

Did you know that ? I sure didn't

NOWHERE have I seen this undocumented feature. NOWHERE (am I blind ?)

But today, by coincident, I've stumbled upon a little arrow on top right of mix console, which lets one to bypass Mix Console's zoom, so it's Bye Bye to accidentally zooming the mixer when the focus should actually be the arrange.

Hmmphh :roll:
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby John Purser » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:37 pm

I can't remember how I came across this, but yeh I've been using it since it was implemented. Very useful ...
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Tp3 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:14 pm

That's the thing : I can't remember either. I could have easily agonized (till Cubase 8) for the lack of mixer zoom override, when it was there all along... (haven't seen anyone saying anything about the included feature.. have you ?)
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby SteveInChicago » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:28 pm

There were a few threads... viewtopic.php?f=196&t=48080&hilit=+mix+console for one. ;)
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Buchanan » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:39 am

Someone may point me in the right direction but; I haven't seen the Cubase 7.5 manual yet. I will check. But maybe this is why it's undocumented.
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Tp3 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:46 am

SteveInChicago wrote:There were a few threads... viewtopic.php?f=196&t=48080&hilit=+mix+console for one. ;)

Hey Steve, thanks.

TBO, I would never ever have guessed that this is the solution (not to mention the fact that one has to search among the huge globs of data around here).

So now we have a direct topic about it... "for posterity" ;)
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Tp3 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:54 am

Buchanan wrote:Someone may point me in the right direction but; I haven't seen the Cubase 7.5 manual yet.

Maybe there is none ?...

Buchanan wrote:I will check. But maybe this is why it's undocumented.

I just checked the Cubase 7 manual : search for "disable the zoom shortcuts" or "zoom shortcut" yields nothing.

In my book it is considered "undocumented FR".
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Buzthafuzz » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:40 pm

This is a good one. You should post it here :

viewtopic.php?f=181&t=49327
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Tp3 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:57 pm

Buzthafuzz wrote:This is a good one. You should post it here :

viewtopic.php?f=181&t=49327

And let be it get lost in oblivion, among many many other tips ?

No thanks.

That will defeat the purpose of this topic : To supply the (anguished) user with a quick and dirty answer to a simple question : "How the F#%k do I get rid of the mixer's zoom feature ?!..."

;)
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Rhino » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:36 pm

While this feature certainly makes sense in a way, unfortunately it doesn't bypass mixer zoom as in "completely disable".
All it does is remap / split the related keycommands, while all the zoom recall issues and other annoyances keep working their voodoo, I'm afraid. :shock:
just saying,
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Buzthafuzz » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:08 pm

Thanks for the clarification, I could'nt try It as I am in hollydays...
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Tp3 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:39 pm

Rhino wrote:While this feature certainly makes sense in a way, unfortunately it doesn't bypass mixer zoom as in "completely disable".
All it does is remap / split the related keycommands, while all the zoom recall issues and other annoyances keep working their voodoo, I'm afraid. :shock:
just saying,
Rhino

Can you elaborate ? (if you want)
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Rhino » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:14 pm

Tp3 wrote:(if you want)

well, actually I'd much rather be positive ... :(
zooming in the new C7 mixer has been a mixed blessing yet to put it mildly, many of us feel the minuscule advantage compared to the old mixer isn't even remotely worth the huge cost in terms of bugs, UI sluggishness and overall UI regressions it comes with.
I personally always end up using about the same width like in SX1 to C6.5 anyway, a few more 6.5 style visibility switches and the option of seeing inserts and sends simultaneously would have made us perfectly happy, thank you.
No real-time rubberband gimmickry needed, ever.
Nothing would have stopped Steinberg from updating the visuals (yes, the 7.x mixer is prettier imho) and adding filters for those that like them (I do) as well as the channel strip for those who use it (i don't), using the tried and true UI concept.
Btw, traditional buttons and displays beat mouse-over fumbling any day in my book, no need to implement trendiness over functionality here, too, with an updated constant-size mixer.
Re bugs, the forum is full of issues with the new mixer, almost all related to zoom somehow, to only quote a few :
- erraneous recall of channel width up to the infamous "Kermit bug" full width channels, kinda random but still a constant threat
- up to 6.5 a precise recall of a certain visual mixer state was possible using workspaces and keycommands (granted, you had to know a few tricks), and these workspaces could be transfered between projects (granted, in a cumbersome way, but at least you could do it), C7.x has no way of doing either !?! :o
- and finally, can't prove it, but considering the above it's fairly safe to assume correct simultaneous focus behaviour also was sacrificed for this unwanted zoomable concept, absolute no-go.

This thread could have been mistaken for "disable zooming and all the related collateral damage by simply deselecting it", which unfortunately is not how it works. :cry:
By default C7.x uses an identical set of keycommands for all zoom tasks including the mixer, here you can force a separate set of zoom keycommands for mixer vs the rest of Cubase, that's all.
A good option, sure.
The collateral damage completely remains ...
That's what I was referring to.

Like always, ymmv,
Rhino

Btw, before somebody chimes in crying "but what about that little netbook I use on the toilet ?", if really necessary a choice between 3 or 4 fixed UI sizes (similar to Kontakt, Torpedo Pi or many others) would have solved this issue too, without any of the mentioned drawbacks.
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Rhino » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:33 pm

addendum to my previous post
- not directly related, but the whole channel visibility concept is a stellar idea in C7.x, no doubt - a bit rough around the edges still, but basically this one's most welcome ! 8-)
And again, absolutely not zoom related by any means ...
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Tp3 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:07 pm

Rhino wrote:No real-time rubberband gimmickry needed, ever.

I sympathize.

I used to call Mix-Console "Mix-Debacle"...

Rhino wrote:Nothing would have stopped Steinberg from updating the visuals (yes, the 7.x mixer is prettier imho)

IMVHO, its looks are distracting. I'm not supposed to "look" at it. it should be utilitarian.

Rhino wrote:Btw, traditional buttons and displays beat mouse-over fumbling any day in my book, no need to implement trendiness over functionality here, too, with an updated constant-size mixer.

I absolutely agree. it is, as SOS' columnist call it : "risible"...

Rhino wrote:Re bugs, the forum is full of issues with the new mixer, almost all related to zoom somehow, to only quote a few :
- erraneous recall of channel width up to the infamous "Kermit bug" full width channels, kinda random but still a constant threat

- up to 6.5 a precise recall of a certain visual mixer state was possible using workspaces and keycommands (granted, you had to know a few tricks), and these workspaces could be transfered between projects (granted, in a cumbersome way, but at least you could do it), C7.x has no way of doing either !?! :o

- and finally, can't prove it, but considering the above it's fairly safe to assume correct simultaneous focus behavior also was sacrificed for this unwanted zoomable concept, absolute no-go.

Well, IMO "zoomable mixer" is simply Implausible (I'm being very gentle here, yes ?...).
Have you EVER seen a "Zoomable" REAL mixer ? I sure haven't.

I have the feeling that this was a compromise, before we all land in 4K LCD soon. however, this ridiculous concept should be BANISHED. it causes so much trouble that its questionable merits fall apart against the problems it causes.

Rhino wrote:This thread could have been mistaken for "disable zooming and all the related collateral damage by simply deselecting it", which unfortunately is not how it works. :cry:

No. it is simply me happy to not (not ?) having to mistakenly zoom within the mixer.

Oh, unlike you, I think that cramming SO MUCH info (channel strips, inserts, sends, etc etc.) into SO LITTLE physical space (our LCDs) is HORRENDOUS. may I remind you that your LCD is NOT 6m wide/ 1.5m long as a real console.
it is 60 CENTIMETERS by 40 CENTIMETERS (roughly - on average). I have no idea how can someone cope with so much data : pixels...colors... animations... more pixels... more colors... and whatnot.

Someone over at Steinberg HQ should reality check himself, REALLY. this is basic human perception stuff... :roll:
You have to understand that the human brain WASTES energy on such things. energy that should really be used to CREATE.
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Re: Mix Console zoom override - YES WE CAN

Postby Rhino » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:53 pm

Tp3 wrote:
Rhino wrote:yes, the 7.x mixer is prettier imho

IMVHO, its looks are distracting. I'm not supposed to "look" at it. it should be utilitarian.
fair enough ...

Tp3 wrote:"risible"...

:lol:

Tp3 wrote:Oh, unlike you, I think that cramming SO MUCH info (channel strips, inserts, sends, etc etc.) into SO LITTLE physical space (our LCDs) is HORRENDOUS. may I remind you that your LCD is NOT 6m wide/ 1.5m long as a real console.
it is 60 CENTIMETERS by 40 CENTIMETERS (roughly - on average). I have no idea how can someone cope with so much data : pixels...colors... animations... more pixels... more colors... and whatnot.

Well, you can hardly blame this on Steinberg ... :mrgreen:
I grew up with real hardware, too, and bought a new 32 ch analog console lately to handle all monitoring duties, but honestly, I would not want to trade ITB mixing for hardware, analog or digital.
I get along fine with all the info personally, using custom keycommands, macros, workspaces, some GR driven controllers (which all works reliably in 6.5) and 3 screens - I always have the relevant subset of information available at the touch of a single button, intuitively - that's what drives me up the wall with 7.x - most of this stuff is broken or only halfway implemented, I tried to offer some examples above.

Tp3 wrote:REALLY. this is basic human perception stuff... :roll:
You have to understand that the human brain WASTES energy on such things. energy that should really be used to CREATE.

... a "thank you" for this quote !

cheers,
Rhino
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