Nuendo 6.5?

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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby TimoWildenhain » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:20 pm

Domilik wrote:- Opportunity to fire up mixer shortcuts (from keyboard + or midi) when working and mixing in projectwindow! The need to click with mouse into mixer before is inadmissible.


Hello,

we are aware of this, however it is not at all a "bug", but a way of designing window handling. This approach follows
the standard logic how operating systems handle active windows. Thanks to the feedback in this forum as well as additional feedback we've received via other channels, we've clearly recognized that this behaviour needs to be changed to a different way of window handling. It requires a re-write of the window handling logic, which is already scheduled, but this will require some dev time.

Thanks,
Timo
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby SteveInChicago » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:25 pm

This is such great news.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Rickard » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:46 pm

I feel a need to chime in with my agreement around the disappointment that 6.5 will be a paid upgrade (this hasn't happened before) and that 6.0x is apparently not going to be completely fixed before the 6.5 release leaving us with no real choice but to pay for the fixes in 6.5.

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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Tumppi Järnefelt » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:00 am

Rickard wrote:I feel a need to chime in with my agreement around the disappointment that 6.5 will be a paid upgrade (this hasn't happened before) and that 6.0x is apparently not going to be completely fixed before the 6.5 release leaving us with no real choice but to pay for the fixes in 6.5.

Dean


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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby blob » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:15 am

+1
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Marsman » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:01 pm

will there be a different price for upgrading from 5.5 to 6.5 than current price from 5.5 to 6.0?
Grace Period?
Wait or buy update now, what´s cheaper, or is it the same price?
Pre-Order discount?
Early Access?
Launch the promotions, I´m ready! :mrgreen:
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Mark Ayres » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:51 am

blob wrote:+1


+1

I keep trying to work with N6 but always return to 5.5.6. A real disappointment.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby CHAOS » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:50 am

Rickard wrote:I feel a need to chime in with my agreement around the disappointment that 6.5 will be a paid upgrade (this hasn't happened before) and that 6.0x is apparently not going to be completely fixed before the 6.5 release leaving us with no real choice but to pay for the fixes in 6.5.

Dean


+1
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Robin Walsh » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:49 am

When new features are added to Nuendo I expect to pay for an update. This update has new features, so charging is justified.

I just wish some things would be fixed before new updates are added...
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby iBM » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:57 am

Mark Ayres wrote:I keep trying to work with N6 but always return to 5.5.6. A real disappointment.

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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby GTBannah » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:28 am

TimoWildenhain wrote:
Domilik wrote:- Opportunity to fire up mixer shortcuts (from keyboard + or midi) when working and mixing in projectwindow! The need to click with mouse into mixer before is inadmissible.


Hello,

we are aware of this, however it is not at all a "bug", but a way of designing window handling. This approach follows
the standard logic how operating systems handle active windows. Thanks to the feedback in this forum as well as additional feedback we've received via other channels, we've clearly recognized that this behaviour needs to be changed to a different way of window handling. It requires a re-write of the window handling logic, which is already scheduled, but this will require some dev time.

Thanks,
Timo


Hello!

As a past Cakewalk/Sonar user, I find this aspect of the discussion quite interesting. There was a time, with Cakewalk/Sonar, when you only had to move the mouse over a window to make it active, and bring it to the front. Many users complained. They said it got in the way. Apparently, some people move the mouse around while they think so, the changing windows distracted them.

I don't know about writing code, but maybe there could be an option to control this window-mouse relationship, so that those, like me, who scratch their chin while they think, could leave the "auto-activate" feature on, and those who move the mouse could turn it off.

This is a comment from a future Nuendo user.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Domilik » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:05 am

GTBannah wrote:I don't know about writing code, but maybe there could be an option to control this window-mouse relationship, so that those, like me, who scratch their chin while they think, could leave the "auto-activate" feature on, and those who move the mouse could turn it off.
This is a comment from a future Nuendo user.

Hi, it's about not using the mouse at all! I don't care if to click or not to click and just mouse over, it's just that we were used to fire up mixer commands via keystroke or midi-message from a controller without having the mixer-window in focus. It's paradox, if you have a midi-controller for mixing, but always have to move the mouse into mixer to "activate" the full functionality via click after every editing in edit-window. Then no more need for keycommands.

I do not follow the complexity of implementing this, since we got this functionality in all prev. Versions until N6, but I'm thoroughly optimistic that Steinberg will fix this soon.

(Btw: Since N6 the "close"-command in file-menu, which always was for closing the current session, now only closes the window which is in focus, so when trying to close the project I always keep on just closing the mixer or marker-window. Also a strange new design for me. Why do I need a close-command in file-menu which closes single windows?)
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby iBM » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:11 am

We need a NEW (from the N6 cycle) concept for the Mix Console and Control Room. Closer to N5.5 IMO (w/ track versions and track visibility of course).
N6 should never been released in this state, but it is the only way to get enough beta testers to cover as many aspects of the app as possible.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby GTBannah » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:18 am

Domilik wrote:
GTBannah wrote:I don't know about writing code, but maybe there could be an option to control this window-mouse relationship, so that those, like me, who scratch their chin while they think, could leave the "auto-activate" feature on, and those who move the mouse could turn it off.
This is a comment from a future Nuendo user.

Hi, it's about not using the mouse at all! I don't care if to click or not to click and just mouse over, it's just that we were used to fire up mixer commands via keystroke or midi-message from a controller without having the mixer-window in focus. It's paradox, if you have a midi-controller for mixing, but always have to move the mouse into mixer to "activate" the full functionality via click after every editing in edit-window. Then no more need for keycommands.

I do not follow the complexity of implementing this, since we got this functionality in all prev. Versions until N6, but I'm thoroughly optimistic that Steinberg will fix this soon.

(Btw: Since N6 the "close"-command in file-menu, which always was for closing the current session, now only closes the window which is in focus, so when trying to close the project I always keep on just closing the mixer or marker-window. Also a strange new design for me. Why do I need a close-command in file-menu which closes single windows?)

O.K. I see what you mean. Hmmm! :)
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Helidream » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:03 pm

N6 should never been released in this state, but it is the only way to get enough beta testers to cover as many aspects of the app as possible.


No there are other ways, one of them is to pay beta testers.

Anyway the main problem with Nuendo 6 is not really at this level. The problem is that the test procedures were not clearly defined and / or completes. If they were, we would have seen less evident bugs like the one i did find for the missing automation delta level indicator.

You can have many testers and still miss some bugs if a complete test procedure is not rigorously defined and strictly applied by testers before release.

Obviously defining test procedures is not something programmers like to do, it is a full job for peoples that like to do that. But Nuendo needs this now and i think that the announcement for Nuendo 6.5 prove that SB is now aware of that and for sure you will see that Nuendo 6.5 will be a strong release.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Fredo » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:00 pm

Helidream wrote:Obviously defining test procedures is not something programmers like to do, it is a full job for peoples that like to do that.

I think you are wrong about that.
In many cases, the test procedures are even written before the actual feature is build.
Much effort is put into regression tests, simply because they are extremely important and reduce the risk of having severe bugs send to the beta team.
However, these regression tests are only testing the functionality of the feature, and other regression tests (from other features and within other places of the DAW) are making sure that the new feature doesn't break anything else. This does not include "cosmetic" bugs. Which is the case of the problem you are referring to.
The trim function works as designed, the only thing that was "broken" was the delta indicator. Which is the visual aid for the feauture. Which again, by itself is located in another area. 'Cause it was also used for midi tracks.
Not trying to minimize "your" bug, but cosmetic stuff is usually last in the row of "things to be fixed".
Will be fixed in the upcoming 6.5.2 by the way ...

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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby fenderchris » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:06 pm

Fredo wrote:
Helidream wrote:Obviously defining test procedures is not something programmers like to do, it is a full job for peoples that like to do that.

I think you are wrong about that.
In many cases, the test procedures are even written before the actual feature is build.
Much effort is put into regression tests, simply because they are extremely important and reduce the risk of having severe bugs send to the beta team.
However, these regression tests are only testing the functionality of the feature, and other regression tests (from other features and within other places of the DAW) are making sure that the new feature doesn't break anything else. This does not include "cosmetic" bugs. Which is the case of the problem you are referring to.
The trim function works as designed, the only thing that was "broken" was the delta indicator. Which is the visual aid for the feauture. Which again, by itself is located in another area. 'Cause it was also used for midi tracks.
Not trying to minimize "your" bug, but cosmetic stuff is usually last in the row of "things to be fixed".
Will be fixed in the upcoming 6.5.2 by the way ...

Fredo


6.5.2? - N6.5 is not even released yet and you are talking about 6.5.2 ! - Is this the initial 6.5 release or is it already a bug fix update for 6.5? - Is there also a 6.5.1 ?
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby fenderchris » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:11 pm

iBM wrote:N6 should never been released in this state, but it is the only way to get enough beta testers to cover as many aspects of the app as possible.


That is a frightening thought! So we are expected to pay for updates and at the same time be seen as beta-testers by Steinberg. If that is true is would indicate a huge lack of respect for its customers by SB.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby iBM » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:59 pm

fenderchris wrote:
iBM wrote:N6 should never been released in this state, but it is the only way to get enough beta testers to cover as many aspects of the app as possible.


That is a frightening thought! So we are expected to pay for updates and at the same time be seen as beta-testers by Steinberg. If that is true is would indicate a huge lack of respect for its customers by SB.

It is definitively a frightening thought. But how else could they have such many reports back, on the level of so many different features and workflows?
Good developement tactic, bad customer treatment.

Me thinks that the Cubase 7 and the Nuendo 6 cycle is a strategic intermediate stage to the real new versions. Which is the next major versions.
All business strategy IMO. We are actually paying up front fro the next version, especially when paying for x.5 updates/upgrades.

I think I'll play some tactics back ;)
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Fredo » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:47 am

No consperacies, no ripp-offs, no cheating ...

Its a workflow model which is designed to be as productive as possibly can, within the least amount of time at reasonable cost. And that goes for the customer too.

Any other suggestion (fix this first, drop everything until ...,etc) is nowhere near as efficient and cost effective.
Yes, there are drawbacks and negative sides to it. But any other "system" would produce much more unconveniences.

And before someone says: "hire more people" ... that also comes with a price tag.
A price you are paying for ...

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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Trailerman » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:19 pm

FWIW, as a new convert to Cubase (from Logic) and potential Nuendo user (just as soon as 6.5 comes out), I find it pretty refreshing that these kind of discussions can even take place with genuine developers and their representatives. Try having open discourse with Apple devs on Logic, or even Avid regarding ProTools (both products I've used for upwards of 10 years) and you'll get nowhere unless you raise a support case - something you usually have to pay for.

No developer will please everyone all the time, but the fact that they appear here and make honest contributions in public space is a major credit to Steinberg.

[fan mode off]

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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby mrtomcat » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:45 pm

Fredo that workflow used to work until version 6. I was always very happy with Nuendo but something has gone wrong here... first off I don't have a problem paying for an upgrade as long as it's not just bug fixes. N6 as it stands is not a professional product anymore...take alone the microscopic scroll bar on the bottom of the mix window...I think that annoys me more that anything... the constant crashes, the insane amount of additional clicks, the fact that plugins disappear behind the mix window when in full screen mode and so forth...these are all issues that present themselves after just a few minutes in the system. Why after a year have those not been fixed? And I am fairly certain they won't be fixed in 6.5
Now having to pay for that??? By keeping unwanted (or better un-asked-for) features to a minimum and focusing on requested features and bug fixes SB would keep their user community happy for the most part much more than recent.
We are not talking about millions of Nuendo users here...my guess it's a few thousand at most with a very outspoken community on here of professional engineers using this product... so why not listen and react a bit more like SB used to?
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby fenderchris » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:40 am

mrtomcat wrote:Fredo that workflow used to work until version 6. I was always very happy with Nuendo but something has gone wrong here... first off I don't have a problem paying for an upgrade as long as it's not just bug fixes. N6 as it stands is not a professional product anymore...take alone the microscopic scroll bar on the bottom of the mix window...I think that annoys me more that anything... the constant crashes, the insane amount of additional clicks, the fact that plugins disappear behind the mix window when in full screen mode and so forth...these are all issues that present themselves after just a few minutes in the system. Why after a year have those not been fixed? And I am fairly certain they won't be fixed in 6.5
Now having to pay for that??? By keeping unwanted (or better un-asked-for) features to a minimum and focusing on requested features and bug fixes SB would keep their user community happy for the most part much more than recent.
We are not talking about millions of Nuendo users here...my guess it's a few thousand at most with a very outspoken community on here of professional engineers using this product... so why not listen and react a bit more like SB used to?


Exactly - my sentiments entirely.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby marciojhs » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:08 pm

I just bough nuendo 6 (update from 5) and yesterday was horrible. Just on one mixing the program stoped so many times, that i stoped counting. Changed the Buffer time, nuendo stoped... I open a new plugin, nuendo stoped..Try to save work, "can not save this file because its corrupt". How is this possible? in one afternoon i've encounter so many problems, just mixing one track...How can you release this?? Horrible...
I'm a user sense nuendo 1.0 and If someone wants to buy my nuendo, i seal it for half price. I'm tired of shames in front of customers.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby marciojhs » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:19 pm

And when i read that the 6.5 release will be payd, you will not see another € from me. NEVER in the life of Nuendo, a X.5 Version was payd. This is definitely the worst Nuendo version until now, and a X.5 version will be payd... Please stop selling this version. It's a shame for you.
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