MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby D-SANE » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:44 pm

dopethrone wrote:Thanks for your input D-sane. I actually have been using a Novation Remote SL37 for about 5 years, so I can say that the problem exists outside of M-Audio.


I see. Hmmm.

I found in Cubase 7 that the "ASIO Latency Compensation" option has helped minimize the problem, but it's still there. At least with that option engaged, the timing is closer to what it's supposed to be and with auto quantize on I'm getting dead on notes, but I don't always like to quantize everything. So, not fixed, but I am getting better results.
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby manasseh » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:17 pm

Yep, Kinda incredible but I can confirm this and even posted about this in the first 7.0.0 release of C7 but the issue was simply ignored. The problem is less severe but does not go unnoticeable, only ableton live can account for this perfectly
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby Tommok » Wed May 01, 2013 2:31 pm

D_Sane, are you saying you're experiencing problem 2, or is it problem 1?

Have you tried to do the same (whatever you were trying to do) with the same hardware and a different DAW software?
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby D-SANE » Fri May 03, 2013 5:45 pm

Tommok wrote:D_Sane, are you saying you're experiencing problem 2, or is it problem 1?

Have you tried to do the same (whatever you were trying to do) with the same hardware and a different DAW software?


Not quite sure what you mean by problem 1 or 2?

I do have ProTools for compatibility reasons, but I use Cubase pretty exclusively and have not tried to do any MIDI production with PT. Perhaps I should?

I just want my damn MIDI notes to be in time. And I recently switched over to an MR816csx and am getting the hiccups and dropout issues. FML
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby Tommok » Sun May 05, 2013 3:02 pm

D-Sane, we've been discussing two seperate phenomena (calles "problem 1" and "problem 2") from the beginning of this thread (and the previous ones, since this topic just won't ever cease to draw attention).

If you don't want to read the whole thread, maybe start with my summary on the previous page.

While problem 1 (MIDI notes are printed at the time the key is pressed rather than at the time the (latency-delayed) sound is played during recording) is considered a particular behaviour rather than a bug (you would somehow expect the software to record the note exactly when the key is pressed), problem 2 (MIDI notes are printed EARLIER than when the key is pressed) is considered a bug.

You can check which one is your category by performing two simple tests (the "PLONK" test and the "record click" test). I think people should stop talking about problem 1 as a bug (and demand an optionally different behaviour instead, i.e. print the note when the delayed sound is played), while Steinberg should finally do something about problem 2 (which seems to happen most frequently with particular hardware configurations, which, on the other hand, tend to NOT cause the same problem in other DAWs).
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby D-SANE » Mon May 06, 2013 5:35 am

I did read through several pages of this thread before I posted, I didn't catch the difference though. I have problem #2 for sure.
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby Tommok » Mon May 06, 2013 8:40 am

Then it would be helpful if you could do the PLONK test and report the results along with your specific hardware and ASIO setup, this could help circling down on the source of the problem (not that I think Steinberg would care, but it's worth another try).

Also, please try the same with a different DAW (if possible) and see if the results are different.
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby Augustus » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:55 am

This is absolutely ludicrous. This has nothing to do with Windows 7, it has to do completely with the Cubase software. I currently have Cubase 7.07 and 7.5 and this problem has happened to me.

Not to mention the explosion into my bum of C++ & Runtime errors where Cubase has to close unexpectedly. Coming from Steinberg this isn't an issue with C++ or Cubase. What about the time when I was working on a project and everything was fine, and then I decided to send a group track to some reverb - BEHOLD, YOUR ENTIRE TRACKS MIDI IS NO COMPLETELY OUT OF SYNC AND NOW FORWARD IN TIME.

Another problem is that the little square that my cursor draws to highlight clips will disappear, audio will drop out, midi triggering the midi gate won't work, random runtime errors, random C++ Visual errors, midi will just decide to play forward and not sync with the rest of track, because of what? Sending a group track to some reverb?

I have an i7 with 3.4ghz and 16gb ddr? Uad Apollo?

Someone better get off their ass and fix this, or I am going back to FL Studio.
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby Arjan P » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:52 pm

Augustus wrote:Someone better get off their ass and fix this, or I am going back to FL Studio.

Ehm, you do realize this is a less-than-current forum? The latest Cubase version is 7.5, that's where maybe someone would get off their ass. Not because of a threat with FL Studio though 8-)
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby OldFecker » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:19 pm

If you read the thread more carefully you would see that this is fixed in version 7.
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby alexis » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:27 pm

OldFecker wrote:If you read the thread more carefully you would see that this is fixed in version 7.


Hullo, OF!

I'ts been a while since I read through these pages ... would this happen to be because of ASIO Guard, or is the improvement just built into the innards of version 7 itself?

Asking because I'll be taking receipt of my new DAW (w/ C7) in the next month or so and trying to get all the ducks in a row beforehand ...

Thanks!
Alexis

One way to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here.
- A more detailed explanation for how to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here!
- And here for MIDI

Some ways to render virtual instruments to audio here.

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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby OldFecker » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:55 am

I don't have C7 myself but I have read several reports that there is a new control on the track which allows you to enable/disable some extra delay compensation for the track.

I have read that it works, but I have not experienced this first hand.
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby alexis » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:00 pm

OK, thx OF. Maybe that's what people are referring to, or someone else may chip in and clarify.
Alexis

One way to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here.
- A more detailed explanation for how to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here!
- And here for MIDI

Some ways to render virtual instruments to audio here.

Tips Tricks and Workflow Goodness

CubaseTutorial.net - very nice collection of instructional youtubes

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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby jaslan » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:18 pm

OldFecker wrote:I don't have C7 myself but I have read several reports that there is a new control on the track which allows you to enable/disable some extra delay compensation for the track.

I have read that it works, but I have not experienced this first hand.

I am using the C7.5.1 Trial and I can report that I was recording some MIDI playing and, even with the latency set pretty high, it still recorded the notes pretty accurately (within human error, IMO). On Cubase 6.5, I used to have to set the latency much lower to get an accurate MIDI recording.
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby alexis » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:24 pm

jaslan wrote:
OldFecker wrote:I don't have C7 myself but I have read several reports that there is a new control on the track which allows you to enable/disable some extra delay compensation for the track.

I have read that it works, but I have not experienced this first hand.

I am using the C7.5.1 Trial and I can report that I was recording some MIDI playing and, even with the latency set pretty high, it still recorded the notes pretty accurately (within human error, IMO). On Cubase 6.5, I used to have to set the latency much lower to get an accurate MIDI recording.
J.L.


Hi Jaslan -

Do you have ASIO Guard on or off?

Thanks!
Alexis

One way to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here.
- A more detailed explanation for how to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here!
- And here for MIDI

Some ways to render virtual instruments to audio here.

Tips Tricks and Workflow Goodness

CubaseTutorial.net - very nice collection of instructional youtubes

Cubase 7.5.20 64 bit; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W7 SP1 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio Drive; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo, Jamstix 3.3, BCF2K; TC Helicon VoiceOne; RevoicePro 2.5 Trial; 0.1 Woodlocked
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby jaslan » Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:37 pm

alexis wrote:Do you have ASIO Guard on or off?
Thanks!

I had ASIO Guard on. But, I believe ASIO guard does not touch tracks with the moniitor on (i.e. it considers them as having a real time input source).
HTH
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Re: MIDI notes recorded earlier than they sound

Postby alexis » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:04 pm

Thanks, jaslan!
Alexis

One way to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here.
- A more detailed explanation for how to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here!
- And here for MIDI

Some ways to render virtual instruments to audio here.

Tips Tricks and Workflow Goodness

CubaseTutorial.net - very nice collection of instructional youtubes

Cubase 7.5.20 64 bit; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W7 SP1 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio Drive; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo, Jamstix 3.3, BCF2K; TC Helicon VoiceOne; RevoicePro 2.5 Trial; 0.1 Woodlocked
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