What is going on with Cubase 7?

General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics.

Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby shadowfax » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:21 pm

they're never gonna give us a totally fixed totally stable DAW..we would never upgrade again..then who would pay their wages?
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby MrSmith » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:08 pm

shadowfax wrote:they're never gonna give us a totally fixed totally stable DAW..we would never upgrade again..then who would pay their wages?


We would continue to pay their wages because they continue to deliver a better tool. Since 6.5 ended, this hasn't been the case!

They could see how many users are willing to pay them monthly subscription for beta testing, expedited feature requests, working directly with actual developers on a private forum, etc.

Or better yet, let us customize our DAW the way we want it w/ a proprietary language and continue improving the app the way they have been.

It's the best of both situations: The people who are happy with the app they way it is wouldn't need to mess with the programming, while the min-maxers will be 100% content.

I would feel great about handing $250 to a company if they were open enough to provide me with the tools. But instead they charge for a beta test? I'm not giving them another dime until I see a massive change in attitude here. Or until one of their competitors creates a better product. Either way, 7.0.4 is a decent tool for my needs.

See:
Image
Image


It worked pretty well for them.

Image

Sales always increasing because they are constantly improving the OS.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby Norbury Brook » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:52 pm

I would say sales are increasing because they're changing the hardware and the software comes with the new hardware.


It doesn't seem long since I bought my iPad and it's already 3 or 4 revisions old now and the new iOS 7 doesn't work better than v.6. on the older hardware.


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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby MrSmith » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:40 pm

Norbury Brook wrote:I would say sales are increasing because they're changing the hardware and the software comes with the new hardware.

Yeah..iOS7 on my IP4 was a terrible experience. Hell, my iOS6 worked better on my 4th gen ipad than iOS7.

They have definitely their own scheme :twisted: They effectually break the old devices to get you in to a new one each season.

Hardware aside, the software is improving. The users are (generally) content with the software updates. Therefore, they stay loyal to the brand.

Relying on Cubase 7+, OTOH, is a difficult position to be in, as there's nothing else in the market that has the approach and feel of the app, so if you want the benefits, you have to suffer with the developers paid beta test business model.

It's a no win situation :evil: It doesn't have to be this way! I think users should bemade aware of what's being done w/ their money and future user experience.

I also sincerely hope that somebody who's involved at Steinberg, who cares about this software/people who use it, reads this and is urged to action that will help disseminate knowledge to the userbase, re: the issues outlined earlier in the thread and/or the business practices of this company.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby nonlocal » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:55 pm

shadowfax wrote:they're never gonna give us a totally fixed totally stable DAW..we would never upgrade again..then who would pay their wages?


This, unfortunately is the business model Steinberg has chosen, either accidentally, or in a calculating manner.

I raised a similar set of issues in a thread recently, and was swamped by yes men and sock puppets ignoring the issues and instead abusing me and making light of the problems as though they were irrelevant and no one should ever say a bad word about Cubase.

Weak.......

At least this thread shows that I am not alone in thinking that Cubase 7/ 7.5, whilst showing a lot of potential, has a lot of very annoying issues that need to be addressed immediately.

People who say we should just move to another DAW don't get it, Steinberg should focus on providing a fully working product, not tricking people into endless upgrades.

If they got it working really well, yes there would be some people who would stay on that version and never upgrade, but Steinberg would massively increase their market share with people crossgrading when it becomes apparent that Cubase (Once it was fixed) is the absolute Daddy of DAWS.

At this point, I think the marketing department at Steinberg have FAR too much power.........
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby Buchanan » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:41 pm

First off. OBVIOUS INFORMATION for the unready. This is NOT the ISSUES forum. This is NOT the Steinberg SUPPORT desk. I suggest you visit one or the other if one is serious about having these "problems".

There is less wrong with Cubase than is wrong with the incompetent who can't get it to work like thousands of others can.
Who don't know how to complain properly or even where to complain and who mysteriously have a convenient amnesia when it comes to supplying any handy information that might help themselves like system details. Complaining here just makes you all look a bit foolish because this is a USER self-help forum. Do I have to say that s-l-o-w-l-y. A u-s-e-r selllffff hhhheeeellllppp foooorrroooom. It's not the forum where the sane moan for years and years about the SAME problem they had with the last 8 versions (that they were NEVER going to buy). The problem that bothers no one else because they have got a life.
And I have seen devs contributing here. I have seen problems addressed. I think these posts are cheeky and arrogant beyond belief. How would any of you like to be treated the same way by your "clientele"? The way so much "doesn't work" I can believe complaints about some studios must be numerous. Does one tell the "client" "Sorry but it's Cubase. It's awful!" ? :roll:
And it doesn't help with problems when helpful suggestions are brushed aside as irrelevant because they don't join in with the spurious complaint brigade.

What's going on with Cubase 7 is "not much". What's going on with some users that needs more urgent attention.
Nobody MADE any of us buy Cubase. So why buy all those latest, shiny new versions that you said you'd never bother buying from Steinberg EVER again? I'm as dim as a 40watt lightbulb and I can get Cubase working. Even Cubase 7.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby Licensetokill » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:05 pm

nonlocal wrote:
Steinberg should focus on providing a fully working product, not tricking people into endless upgrades.


I agree. I´ve never seen a fully working Cubase. They always leave something, so we have to upgrade and pay some cash. Steinberg should focus on performance, snappiness and stability, not the bells and whistles and make bloat program. And they should fix ALL the bugs, before they release a new version of Cubase.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby MrSmith » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:34 pm

Licensetokill wrote:I agree. I´ve never seen a fully working Cubase.


Nor have I. It believe it's clear that they don't want improve the app too much before dropping a major release, if it all.

Something tells me Cubase 8 will bring forth a whole new slew of problems. And voila: we're at the beginning of the cycle again:

    Here's how the update cycle has been.
    1. Product release. Great features added, but also many new bugs.
    2. Users request features. Bug reports submitted to address said issues.
    3. A few updates. Issues largely ignored..
    4. Paid .5 update. Old features may break here.
    5. Repeat #2 and #3
    6. Announce new version 3-6 months in advance. 50+ pg. threads anticipating features, everyone hopes that the improvements they'd hoped for are added.
    7. New version released. People optimistically buy. Outcome: Goto #1, rinse, repeat.

Right now we're between #5-6. I hope it doesn't go like that, but honestly the outcome isn't looking good. They're not in any rush to address these problems now, I don't see why they'd revise their entire strategy after Cubase 8 is out and suddenly have open betas, etc.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby mrjixies » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:45 am

Licensetokill wrote: And they should fix ALL the bugs, before they release a new version of Cubase.



I dont have a problem with minor little bugs here and there. What I have a problem with is PAYING for MAJOR bug fixing, what evidently is the case with 7.5 and even worse, those major bugs arent even fixed in version 7.5!!!

SO WE HAVE TO BUY AGAIN!
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby sycophant » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:58 am

mrjixies wrote:
Licensetokill wrote: And they should fix ALL the bugs, before they release a new version of Cubase.



I dont have a problem with minor little bugs here and there. What I have a problem with is PAYING for MAJOR bug fixing, what evidently is the case with 7.5 and even worse, those major bugs arent even fixed in version 7.5!!!

SO WE HAVE TO BUY AGAIN!


So what's the state of affairs at this time?
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby Buchanan » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:49 am

mrjixies wrote:
Licensetokill wrote: And they should fix ALL the bugs, before they release a new version of Cubase.



I dont have a problem with minor little bugs here and there. What I have a problem with is PAYING for MAJOR bug fixing, what evidently is the case with 7.5 and even worse, those major bugs arent even fixed in version 7.5!!!

SO WE HAVE TO BUY AGAIN!


You can always move to another PERFECT DAW that WORKS. "Have to buy again." HAVE TO? Really? You're NOT a fanboi slave. You must know the perfect DAW that works because you certainly know that this one doesn't. I'm therefore in the dark as to what you're comparing Cubase to. Maybe one that hasn't strangled one's wallet and FORCED one to upgrade to their obviously inferior product. :lol:
Or maybe this is all a trap to cause arguments?
PS: To all who think this place is populated by fanboys. What did you expect? It IS the CUBASE forum. Not yours.
The playground seems littered with rather a lot of noisy prams and abandoned dummies at the moment. :lol:
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby vespesian » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:08 am

Buchanan wrote:
mrjixies wrote:
Licensetokill wrote: And they should fix ALL the bugs, before they release a new version of Cubase.



I dont have a problem with minor little bugs here and there. What I have a problem with is PAYING for MAJOR bug fixing, what evidently is the case with 7.5 and even worse, those major bugs arent even fixed in version 7.5!!!

SO WE HAVE TO BUY AGAIN!


You can always move to another PERFECT DAW that WORKS. "Have to buy again." HAVE TO? Really? You're NOT a fanboi slave. You must know the perfect DAW that works because you certainly know that this one doesn't. I'm therefore in the dark as to what you're comparing Cubase to. Maybe one that hasn't strangled one's wallet and FORCED one to upgrade to their obviously inferior product. :lol:
Or maybe this is all a trap to cause arguments?
PS: To all who think this place is populated by fanboys. What did you expect? It IS the CUBASE forum. Not yours.
The playground seems littered with rather a lot of noisy prams and abandoned dummies at the moment. :lol:



+1.

My next track is gonna be called Major Bugs.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby shadowfax » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:45 am

Seems to me that if we pay full working money we should get a full working DAW at some stage in the 7 series, we all know they could fix the bugs if they wanted to.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby mrjixies » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:59 am

Buchanan wrote:
mrjixies wrote:
Licensetokill wrote: And they should fix ALL the bugs, before they release a new version of Cubase.



I dont have a problem with minor little bugs here and there. What I have a problem with is PAYING for MAJOR bug fixing, what evidently is the case with 7.5 and even worse, those major bugs arent even fixed in version 7.5!!!

SO WE HAVE TO BUY AGAIN!


You can always move to another PERFECT DAW that WORKS. "Have to buy again." HAVE TO? Really? You're NOT a fanboi slave.


Uuuuhmmm hello??? If I want it to be FIXED! I HAVE TO PAY. Thats the whole ordeal here! Cant you understand that??? I dont want new features, I only want that the MAJOR bugs are being fixed for a product I ALLREADY paid for??? Is that to much to ask??? And again we are talking about BIG bugs not small ones...
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby MrSmith » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:09 pm

mrjixies wrote:
Buchanan wrote:

Uuuuhmmm hello??? If I want it to be FIXED! I HAVE TO PAY. Thats the whole ordeal here! Cant you understand that??? I dont want new features, I only want that the MAJOR bugs are being fixed for a product I ALLREADY paid for??? Is that to much to ask??? And again we are talking about BIG bugs not small ones...



Image

mrjixies wrote:
Licensetokill wrote: And they should fix ALL the bugs, before they release a new version of Cubase.



I dont have a problem with minor little bugs here and there. What I have a problem with is PAYING for MAJOR bug fixing, what evidently is the case with 7.5 and even worse, those major bugs arent even fixed in version 7.5!!!

SO WE HAVE TO BUY AGAIN!


Well put!

shadowfax wrote:Seems to me that if we pay full working money we should get a full working DAW at some stage in the 7 series, we all know they could fix the bugs if they wanted to.


Agreed. Selling broken software to people (by broken, I mean well-documented, outstanding issues) ... then to advertise and sell 'updates' before the issues are resolved. Where is the logic? :?

Getting down to brass tacks: THEY can do whatever THEY want with their software. You don't need to buy it. They have the right to release whatever app they want. Even call the bugs features..

We're in this thread though, why? Because we care about this app. Why? Probably because we rely on it to express musical ideas.

Therefore, SB's decision to operate like this, out of their negligence and/or calculated marketing, stymies it's progress. The issues pile up and we're left wondering why we can't be liberated from these issues, when all we want for our $ is something that functions in a sensible working matter.


These are shady business practices, at best. It's not just SB; many other DAWs seem to take this approach.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby shadowfax » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:23 pm

Mr Smith said...Agreed. Selling broken software to people (by broken, I mean well-documented, outstanding issues) ... then to advertise and sell 'updates' before the issues are resolved. Where is the logic? :?


this is the logic of marketing strategy..we upgrade to get the 7 series bugs fixed (maybe) only to hit a load of 8 series bugs that will be fixed in the 9 series...I'm willing to stand corrected if the 8 series has no bugs!! :lol:
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby mrjixies » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:34 pm

MrSmith wrote:Agreed. Selling broken software to people (by broken, I mean well-documented, outstanding issues) ... then to advertise and sell 'updates' before the issues are resolved. Where is the logic? :?

Getting down to brass tacks: THEY can do whatever THEY want with their software.


Can they? I dont know, here in Europe and especially in the Netherlands we as customers have a lot of protection regarding shady tactics by companies. And since I bought this product in the Netherlands, Steinberg has to uphold the law in my country.

I seriously thought about suing steinberg. I personally think this is something they cant get away with. If others feel the same way, maybe we could do something together?
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby shadowfax » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:37 pm

mrjixies wrote:
MrSmith wrote:Agreed. Selling broken software to people (by broken, I mean well-documented, outstanding issues) ... then to advertise and sell 'updates' before the issues are resolved. Where is the logic? :?

Getting down to brass tacks: THEY can do whatever THEY want with their software.


Can they? I dont know, here in Europe and especially in the Netherlands we as customers have a lot of protection regarding shady tactics by companies. And since I bought this product in the Netherlands, Steinberg has to uphold the law in my country.

I seriously thought about suing steinberg. I personally think this is something they cant get away with. If others feel the same way, maybe we could do something together?


you speak sedition!!! how long before this thread disappears?
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby Jenks » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:42 pm

shadowfax wrote:you speak sedition!!!


Or madness - can't be serious.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby silhouette » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:41 pm

Like everything in this world things started simply. Well at least for me and my Atari last century. Progressively the basic software has added functionality, processes and plugins. Computers were certainly had very little processing power in the early days and very little memory.

Look around you now and that has all changed. Computers now have immense power and enormous amounts of memory. The software is incredibly complex and most users only scratch the surface of all the things this software offers. Cubase has become a bit like a musical instrument in that you have to spend a reasonable amount of time leaning how to use it, how to organise your workflow and how to deal with the inevitable issues and problems that arise with in such a complicated and demanding environment.

It cannot have escaped everyone's notice that we are going through the most intensive series of technological changes in living memory. As has been pointed out mobile phone and tablets have changed the landscape - certainly with regard to how users interact with technology. Why would Steinberg ignore these developments? I would imaging the coding upon which the current version of Cubase relies upon is now out of date and being able to cope with the future proofing of this product is putting an enormous strain upon the developers. I would like to be able to use Cubase well into the future.

I am too old to learn a new DAW. Actually I am not sure that there are many DAW's out there that are perfect. I would assert that Cubase is the most readily functional of them all. I have been working with a friend using Logic and I cannot for the life of me work out why it is called Logic. I have not got money to throw away, so that rules out ProTools.

It seems to me that for many users the first scent of a problem and they are complaining on the forum rather than doing a little trouble-shooting into this problem and learning more about the software they rely upon. No one forces you to use Cubase in the same way that no one forces you to buy a guitar. All that can be realistically expected from the use of either is that we learn how to play/use it and rise above each of their individual foibles. I find it difficult to understand users who feel that this is all some underhand plot by Steinberg to exploit us for as much cash as they can. I just want Steinberg to survive.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby MrSmith » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:48 pm

Jenks wrote:Or madness - can't be serious.


Welp, take a look at it:

If you buy a car from the dealer, it may break a few times down the line. Cars are very complex mechanical devices and they have to work well together.

The car is as analogous to the hardware and software we're discussing here. There's a key difference, however:

This software is intrinsically flawed. It was sold to us that way.

It's my understand that if a car manufacturer discover their product is intrinsically flawed, they will RECALL the offending cars.

Keeping with our analogy, if Steinberg were manufacturing the cars, they'd keep releasing models that build on the same chassis, adding a few features, whilst leaving many of the old ones, and even creating new ones. In this situation, I believe a lawsuit would be inevitable.

mrjixies wrote:
MrSmith wrote:Agreed. Selling broken software to people (by broken, I mean well-documented, outstanding issues) ... then to advertise and sell 'updates' before the issues are resolved. Where is the logic? :?

Getting down to brass tacks: THEY can do whatever THEY want with their software.


Can they? I dont know, here in Europe and especially in the Netherlands we as customers have a lot of protection regarding shady tactics by companies. And since I bought this product in the Netherlands, Steinberg has to uphold the law in my country.

I seriously thought about suing steinberg. I personally think this is something they cant get away with. If others feel the same way, maybe we could do something together?


Software developers responsibility is a relatively new domain, so I don't think this has ever happened before? But I definitely think depending on the laws in your country, you could win.

shadowfax wrote:you speak sedition!!! how long before this thread disappears?


“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.”
― George R.R. Martin
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby SteveInChicago » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:21 pm

I have a car, and I paid full price when I bought it. Now, I have to change the oil, replace the brake pads, fill it with gas, pay for insurance, and replace expensive parts when they wear out.

If I want features my car doesn't have, I have to buy another and sell the one I have, or buy 3rd party products.

It's somewhat analogous to buying Cubase and following the updates. You pay to keep it running. But one place where the analogy breaks down is here:

If you don't pay SB, you stay exactly where you are and lose nothing. With a car, if you don't pay to maintain it, it will stop working, and possibly start running people over.

There are indeed recalls, but only for safety issues, but there are design flaws, missing features and poorly engineered parts in there that don't get recalled.

Also, In the EU you get 14 days to to return a product you buy online, so you can get a refund.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby iBM » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:27 pm

As long as the breaks works............... I don't care :?
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby MrSmith » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:14 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:If I want features my car doesn't have, I have to buy another and sell the one I have, or buy 3rd party products.


Feature req. are a subjective matter.

This isn't so much about features our app is lacking, as much as it's about fixing outstanding problems before introducing new updates.


SteveInChicago wrote:There are indeed recalls, but only for safety issues, but there are design flaws, missing features and poorly engineered parts in there that don't get recalled.


Cubase has design flaws and 'missing features', therefore, the software ought to be 'recalled'. We're in agreeance.
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Re: What is going on with Cubase 7?

Postby SteveInChicago » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:24 pm

MrSmith wrote:
Cubase has design flaws and 'missing features', therefore, the software ought to be 'recalled'. We're in agreeance.

No, actually. Recalls are for safety issues.
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