Winds of Time

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Winds of Time

Postby polgara » Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:38 pm

hi there i mixed this down with nothing on the master bus ,onto a fostex x-15 4 track cassette tape machine and recorded it onto a chrome cassette ,then played the x-15 back into cubase and recorded this version as a master then exported it with just a limiter to bring the volume up ,the cassette player has dolby B always switched on .i was interested in how the x-15 filtered the sound ,which i found quite appealing . ta
https://soundcloud.com/dedgehog/winds-o ... 5-cassette
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby shadowfax » Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:52 pm

Quite a convoluted way to get a mix out but why not..experiment and you never know what's gonna happen, good 70's sort of feel about it but felt it lacked a chorus or some real dynamic change somewhere along the way...liked the guitar work at the end...Kevin
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby polgara » Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:46 pm

shadowfax wrote:Quite a convoluted way to get a mix out but why not..experiment and you never know what's gonna happen, good 70's sort of feel about it but felt it lacked a chorus or some real dynamic change somewhere along the way...liked the guitar work at the end...Kevin
cheers Kevin, no it wasn`t convoluted. infact it was simpler than setting up an eq, compressor magneto or similar and a limiter ,cause the tape did all what they did apart from the limiter ,i was suprised to see a natural kind of low pass filter effect from the tape when looking at the eq curve in a spectrum analyzer set to infinite and i could see the average curve for the whole song ,where as before hand when all digital there were a lot more high frequencies ,i think i`m gonna look at trying out different tape machines to see which i like for mixing down my own stuff ,the tape machine i used for this mix was quite a cheapo when it first came on the market in the early 80`s maybe round the £300 mark can`t remember.but i also have an old tascam 246 portastudio i am just in the process of replacing the capstan belt, that is a good machine ,an old friend is lending me a sansui sd 5000 reel to reel to try out.he also has an old akai m8 i would rather try that one cause it runs on valves,cheers for the comment on the song .
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby shadowfax » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:46 am

Ok gotcha...I'm not a tekky so never really got it regarding the effect of using tape etc..learning everyday :)

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Re: Winds of Time

Postby polgara » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:58 pm

shadowfax wrote:Ok gotcha...I'm not a tekky so never really got it regarding the effect of using tape etc..learning everyday :)

Kevin
using tape has made me realize that you should use the real deal instead of vst`s trying to model tape ,it reminds me of a line 6 amp trying to emulate the sound of for example a marshall amp pre the year 2000 ,a line 6 might possibly come close but there are too many variations you can do with all the different knobs and parameters to the sound of the line 6 that in the end up you will probably make a mess of it, the beauty of a marshall amp of an early era 60`s to 90`s is their simplicity and basically one sound which works and is successful ,if you want a different sound get a different amp .The prices people are paying for "virtual" vst tape emulators is a joke when you could probably pick up a good tape machine for the same price , the trouble with digital gear is the full bandwidth and too many options, where as real gear has it`s limitations which is where the beauty happens .i think recording on something like cubase is great and convenient cause of the flexibility and editing power as long as you end up introducing real tape and bring it back down to earth .
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby HornForHire » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:51 pm

Nice experiment and nice song, but I miss high end in the mix. It's especially apparent with the hi-hat and tambourine.

I like the Steely Danesque guitar playing at the end! 8-)

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Re: Winds of Time

Postby TobyShark » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:26 pm

certainly has the sound of an old cassette; I think it would be most interesting if you used this as an effect - would be really interesting to mix a regular version of the master bus, complete with shiney, spatial reverbs in and out of the mix; it would sound amazing coming to full resolution (so to speak) during the choruses for example

PS - your shakers are all over the place timings wise.. really messing with the groove!
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby Early21 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:16 am

Actually, it sounds like an old cassette. Like the sound of a PA system at the local swimming pool, heard from beneath the surface. An old cassette where somebody put together a very credible recording.
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby polgara » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:06 am

HornForHire wrote:Nice experiment and nice song, but I miss high end in the mix. It's especially apparent with the hi-hat and tambourine.

I like the Steely Danesque guitar playing at the end! 8-)

Cheers,
Wim

thanks Wim always appreciate your comments.

TobyShark wrote:certainly has the sound of an old cassette; I think it would be most interesting if you used this as an effect - would be really interesting to mix a regular version of the master bus, complete with shiney, spatial reverbs in and out of the mix; it would sound amazing coming to full resolution (so to speak) during the choruses for example

PS - your shakers are all over the place timings wise.. really messing with the groove!

thanks TobyShark for your comments, sounds a great idea about mixing a hi fi and low fi versions together ,it`s a bit like what mixers do today ,going from extreme low pass and then opening it back up , i would love to hear a version done professionally .if i did it it would sound like two low fi versions, lol. yeh the tambourine soz about that ,poor tambourine being treat with contempt,glad you pointed it out ,it did bother me but i kept dismissing it,i wonder if i had copied and moved them and not placed them on the correct position .

Early21 wrote:Actually, it sounds like an old cassette. Like the sound of a PA system at the local swimming pool, heard from beneath the surface. An old cassette where somebody put together a very credible recording.


Lol that`s funny ,actually Early how do you know it sounds like that ,have you being marching around in your swimming trunks and sticking your head under water and slipping in and out of your snorkel while listening to my tune ..... i`m honored .Ha Ha .anyway i`m experimenting .yes after a week i have to concede that it does sound muffled and very low fi ,but i still kinda like it . thanks Early love your comment.
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby Bane » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:11 pm

I reckon this style is a bit before my time. Still like the others are saying the feel is 10/10 for me. The dynamic contrast/interest retention isn't quite so high. Enjoyed the listen though, actually made me feel a bit nostalgic. ;)
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby polgara » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:15 am

Bane wrote:I reckon this style is a bit before my time. Still like the others are saying the feel is 10/10 for me. The dynamic contrast/interest retention isn't quite so high. Enjoyed the listen though, actually made me feel a bit nostalgic. ;)

thanks Blake thanks for the positives ,your comment made me chuckle a bit when you said , it`s a bit before your time ,and made you feel a bit nostalgic .was that nostalgia for a previous life .soz i`m not taking the Michael ,i always appreciate your comments.
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby Bane » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:07 am

lol guess I shoulda clarified. Actually due to being more dependent I listened to that music a lot when I was a lot younger... when parents/grandparents tried to brainwash me with music from their generation. Most of it was country of the worst sort, but some of the 70's and 80's pop rock sat pretty well with me.

Like any good kid, I got over it and rebelled of course. :twisted:
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby halljack » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:18 am

polgara: I like it----IMO very 1977 :D

Especially like your use of the cassette -- very Warm sound.
I personally have been using the
Waves Studer j37 4-track plugin a lot lately,
but have been tempted to try
my old Teac A-2340 4-track or Tascam 48 ob 8-track
for a similar Warm Sound.

Good Job

Jack :D :D
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby polgara » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:39 am

halljack wrote:polgara: I like it----IMO very 1977 :D

Especially like your use of the cassette -- very Warm sound.
I personally have been using the
Waves Studer j37 4-track plugin a lot lately,
but have been tempted to try
my old Teac A-2340 4-track or Tascam 48 ob 8-track
for a similar Warm Sound.

Good Job

Jack :D :D
thanks Halljack, glad you like it .i like the look on the machines you have ,you should try it out and hear the difference . i have been using some quite old chrome cassettes what i have previously recorded on ,i really should get some new ones, although i bet they are harder to come by nowadays . you can see the results in voxengo span`s spectrum set to infinity, when you match it next to a mix purely recorded in digital .i`m looking forward to fixing my tascam 246 and giving that a whirl , the capstan belt should be arriving any day now.cheers
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby kzarider » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:24 pm

What fun, it reminds of the great sound from the day...love hearing the tape noise and the stereo placement of instruments, it has the on stage love sound-very warm. Great guitar solo. I had Akai Gx 280D reel to reel deck till not to long ago, was a great machine and it sounded so cool when you played it backward. They aren't easy to maintain anymore sadly cost of repair made me give it up :(
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby polgara » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:00 am

kzarider wrote:What fun, it reminds of the great sound from the day...love hearing the tape noise and the stereo placement of instruments, it has the on stage love sound-very warm. Great guitar solo. I had Akai Gx 280D reel to reel deck till not to long ago, was a great machine and it sounded so cool when you played it backward. They aren't easy to maintain anymore sadly cost of repair made me give it up :(
i wouldn`t be surprised if steinberg started doing a line in reel to reels for mixing down ,it would be hard to download one from the online steinberg store though ,fnar! fnar!. cheers for liking the solo Kenny that was done on me trusty old jaguar ,love it`s clunky tone.
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby twilightsong » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:50 am

I agree that using a real tape machine sounds better than any of the hordes of plugins. But for me your process has attenuated the highs too much -- it sounds like I'm listening over AM radio. However, one CAN easily hear how the tape machine has smoothed things out. So I think your plan to get a bit of a "higher end" tape machine for this technique is spot on. Oh, by the way, I really dig the tune 8-)
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Re: Winds of Time

Postby polgara » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:27 pm

twilightsong wrote:I agree that using a real tape machine sounds better than any of the hordes of plugins. But for me your process has attenuated the highs too much -- it sounds like I'm listening over AM radio. However, one CAN easily hear how the tape machine has smoothed things out. So I think your plan to get a bit of a "higher end" tape machine for this technique is spot on. Oh, by the way, I really dig the tune 8-)
cheers Doug ,i think at the minute i`m looking for a one size fits all solution, the tape machines i`ve tried so far are a bit hit and miss but a bit more miss especially on the style of songs i`ve tried so far ,got a couple of more options to try yet ,thanks for liking the song .
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