Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

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Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby electrow » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:33 am

Do threads which express the desire to keep something such as the CMC series viable have any chance of making a difference? I hesitate to make this such a thread because if only 10 or twenty people give the thumbs up, that would probably kill any opportunity for continued product support.....


Oh well, thumbs up here at least...........
Last edited by electrow on Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current worthless

Postby BriHar » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:03 am

I should reconsider (and change) your Thread title! Use "viable" instead of "worthless" as in your text. ;)
...yes I think it can be easily done, just take everything down to Highway 61.

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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current worthless

Postby Armadillosound » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:11 pm

I hope they do keep them up to date and viable. Would make me think twice about buying other Steinberg hardware if they didn't ;)
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current worthless

Postby electrow » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:13 pm

BriHar wrote:I should reconsider (and change) your Thread title! Use "viable" instead of "worthless" as in your text. ;)


Good catch! I forgot the almighty comma, but think your title is better thanks!

I'm trying to generate at least discussion,if not action (petition). If we just acquiesce we know what happens. The CMC controllers are great gear with a lot of potential. One of the biggest frustrations is the amount of time I've spent setting up the function keys, and getting a fluid working rhythmic method of use.
Sometimes the software - hardware "integration" which companies offer is a perpetual trap.
One can continue to use the hardware with whatever software versions support it. But at some version the hardware no longer functions. I'm not saying anything new I know. The investment in not just money but time,seems like water down the drain. Maybe we have to think of the hardware integration as short cycle monetary loss.

Any thoughts on this?
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby BriHar » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:08 am

This reminds one of Steinberg's Houston Controller which they discontinued some years ago which has left numerous Cubase users scarred to this day. If in fact they are being discontinued, this will make many users contemplating any future controller product from Steinberg give it some serious thought beforehand, as their trackrecord would be shot - as the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".
But let us recap before going any further.

The trigger seems to have been a combination of low stock, coupled with the lack of a "Buy" feature in the Steinberg Shop - but only for Europeand lands it would seem.

Next we have the statement from Moderator Joshua Matlock : "...we have not heard from our development team in Germany about any plans to discontinue the CMC series of devices at this time."

Next we have the opinion from our own, ever the optimist, Freddie H: "As far as I know Steinberg are not phasing out these CMC controllers. Its actually the opposite!
In due to its popularity, the TP-controller has run out of stock temporarily in Europe.
The new shipment are due to arrive on 31.03.2014."
This would seem to be Freddie's own personal conclusion, most likely determined from statements from the European supplier Thomann.

'Til now its seem to be looking optimistic.
Then finally we have a post from Sinned which appears to have pulled the plug: "Had word direct from Steinberg today 'CMC discontinued' only 5 FD and 1 PD left."
I am not familiar with this user, whether or not he may be taken at his word. Was he really in contact with Steinberg "direct" or with a supplier? Is he in Europe? Why would he be more privy to Steinberg Marketing information than one of Steinberg's own Moderators.

I would hope for a further sign of encouragement from a Steinberg Rep (Joshua, this would be your cue ;) ). Time will tell I guess, Mar.31st is nigh upon us; will Freddie be proven correct?
I reserve judgment for the time being, and hope this talk of discontinuing the line is in fact just a myth.
...yes I think it can be easily done, just take everything down to Highway 61.

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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby Armadillosound » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:57 am

Would be nice if someone from Steinberg chipped in here and actually confirmed whether they are being discontinued or not. Anyone :D
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby electrow » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:14 am

I started this topic with the hope it would stimulate, not only people expressing their desire for the continuation of CMC products but all potentially viable Steinberg Hardware products. I was thinking about the history of hardware support vs software support from the same company (in this case Steinberg).

First of all I, personally think that Steinberg develops darn good hardware for their software, better than anyone else. I've been a faithful Cubase user since the Atari days. I feel I made the right chioce for the long run. I was one of the "Houston" faithfuls until I realized it's demise was real. I will stay focused an Steinberg products but will mention, as most know other software companies which put out hardware support products, also end up with short life spans - the hardware that is.

From a users stand point we feel that "viable" means as long as the hardware can be improved through software updates, Steinberg should "want" to do so. Was the Houston a failure in terms of hardware design? Was there any indication of this? Or was it a matter of marginal economic loss or gain?

Those of you who are much more technically astute than I am can educate me on this, but it seems to me what is lacking with hardware long term viability is the same as what we actually, as consumers are willing to do for the software : pay for improvement updates. I know this point is debatable, please don't make this an "all improvements should be free" thing.

If we are willing to pay for software improvements, shouldn't we also, perhaps even more be willing to pay for hardware updates? Strictly my opinion, but I would gladly do that. Not only for the hardware but the software as well.

Those of you with more technical knowledge have mentioned desired improvements to the CMC series. I would like to see the AI knob, one example, respond to whatever the mouse points to. There are software companies ( one in particular) which offer annual subscription rates so that improvements/enhancements are made.

I, for one, would gladly pay, to know my hardware remains viable to the extent of the hardware's capabilities as the software evolves. If you agree, let it be known....

The following is my biased opinion: I don't want new softsynths, effects, as incitements to keep Cubase profitable. How many have fully, really fully explored what they already have? I don't want the next "great thing" which replaces the CMC series, (or the MR816, or CC121) any more than an acoustic instrument player would want to replace their instrument simply because it wasn't the latest model.

It would be wonderful if someone from Steinberg could chime in here, without being criticized for their opinion, but maybe from a business policy standpoint that isn't possible.

So what is your opinion regarding monetary support for improvements to Steinberg's hardware?
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby 501dubz » Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:45 pm

Theyre not going to. Its not in their business interests to disclose the profitability expressly

However the fact remains that if these controllers would not be discontinued an in fact in active development they'd be here screaming it out loud.

The only statement from SB is of the "as far as I know" variety so...
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby electrow » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:11 pm

501dubz wrote:Theyre not going to. Its not in their business interests to disclose the profitability expressly

However the fact remains that if these controllers would not be discontinued an in fact in active development they'd be here screaming it out loud.

The only statement from SB is of the "as far as I know" variety so...


Having Steinberg comment is beside the point I'm trying to make,which is: how many of us Steinberg consumers would be willing to pay for hardware updates? One way or another we do it for the software. I don't expect Steinberg to ask us to do this,but if enough interest was expressed from the user side to pay to keep hardware viable, maybe these devices would have a longer life span than previous track records indicate.

As I indicated I for one would be willing to pay,say a subscription fee for instance, rather than having the hardware support diminish then end after a comparably short cycle of use.
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby 501dubz » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:15 pm

What you're asking will never happen at least in that form. SB business model is more straightforward and is not based on separate support revenue. Support is there to shift the new or current units not to create a revenue stream on legacy ones. When the units no longer shift or sourcing becomes an issue, it's bye bye time

SB does not do apple care
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby electrow » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:09 am

501dubz wrote:What you're asking will never happen at least in that form. SB business model is more straightforward and is not based on separate support revenue. Support is there to shift the new or current units not to create a revenue stream on legacy ones. When the units no longer shift or sourcing becomes an issue, it's bye bye time

SB does not do apple care


Thanks for adding to the conversation, and the helpful point of view. I don't know anything about Steinberg's business model. I have no reason to doubt anything you mentioned.

So the CMC series, assuming the series will be discontinued -HOPEFULLY THIS IS FALSE - the life cycle has been less than 2 1/2 years since product announcement. Perhaps there may be some kind of "support" for another year? I think what's becoming clear to me, is that investment in hardware from a software company is only viable to the consumer as long as the software does not advance beyond the hardware's capability. Perhaps the answers lies with getting off the upgrade merry-go-round and living with the limitations, not the promise, of either the hardware or software.
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby 501dubz » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:04 am

I'm sure SB doesn't want to look bad in the eyes if people buying these units as they're the same ones they will have to sell the next controller they come up with. To retain some credibility I'm sure they will provide the bare bones Cmc patches to guarantee compatibility w upcoming cubase version but who knows after that. The annoying thing about something like the AI is that it's completely useless outside Cubase

(The PD and QC on the other hand are quite universal cc boards)

But the whole point is rather that the Cmc will likely go down the history as a short lived product if it's the end of it now. Some would call that a failure but I'm more optimistic
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby Potential - o- meter » Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:08 pm

I've said it before, I'm really happy with this purchase and of late have got two other local studios all keyed up to invest... only there are no units for sale.

I'm only just opening up the full workflow benefits, but am very sold on the idea that these units are totally the way forward.(I have them placed where I need them around the studio without having to have all functionality in one big horrible box.)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Steinberg, don't drop these units or your support of them. I've used lots of other kit in the past but these win, outright.
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby Przemek K. » Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:28 am

I recently purchased the CMC QC and CMC PD and am very happy with them. I also hope the steinberg keeps supporting the cmc units for a long time, and of course does not discontinue the cmc series.
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby AP » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:06 pm

They were reduced by 50% in fall 2012 what does that indicate... I heard that they weren't selling as expected before the sale... Companies like Yamaha don't manufacture products for too long. All I care about is that they keep releasing updates for future cubase versions. The day they stop will be the day I stop updating until my gear becomes too old. Keeping in mind Apple's future updates also...

Thanks for posting this topic I will stay on top of this...
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby BriHar » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:57 pm

AP wrote:Companies like Yamaha don't manufacture products for too Long...
:!: Then it would be a grave mistake to even consider the Nuage Desk A lot of Money to throw away on a product that will have such a short life expectancy. ;)
Last edited by BriHar on Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
...yes I think it can be easily done, just take everything down to Highway 61.

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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby G-string » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:35 am

Armadillosound wrote:Would be nice if someone from Steinberg chipped in here and actually confirmed whether they are being discontinued or not. Anyone :D


Your joking ,they only sell them ,Steinberg aren't interested in what you or i think , that has been proved a lot in the past .
You have a very very long wait if you think Steinberg will chime in on this thread ;-) :twisted:

I first reported this annoying midi connection monitor crap bleeping every second on the midi monitor and was told they would look into disabling this annoying feature but nothing ever happened , no update ,no communication , all bull *flower* !
Last edited by G-string on Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby Freddie H » Sun May 04, 2014 9:55 am

BriHar wrote:This reminds one of Steinberg's Houston Controller which they discontinued some years ago which has left numerous Cubase users scarred to this day. If in fact they are being discontinued, this will make many users contemplating any future controller product from Steinberg give it some serious thought beforehand, as their trackrecord would be shot - as the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".
But let us recap before going any further.

The trigger seems to have been a combination of low stock, coupled with the lack of a "Buy" feature in the Steinberg Shop - but only for Europeand lands it would seem.

Next we have the statement from Moderator Joshua Matlock : "...we have not heard from our development team in Germany about any plans to discontinue the CMC series of devices at this time."

Next we have the opinion from our own, ever the optimist, Freddie H: "As far as I know Steinberg are not phasing out these CMC controllers. Its actually the opposite!
In due to its popularity, the TP-controller has run out of stock temporarily in Europe.
The new shipment are due to arrive on 31.03.2014."
This would seem to be Freddie's own personal conclusion, most likely determined from statements from the European supplier Thomann.

'Til now its seem to be looking optimistic.
Then finally we have a post from Sinned which appears to have pulled the plug: "Had word direct from Steinberg today 'CMC discontinued' only 5 FD and 1 PD left."
I am not familiar with this user, whether or not he may be taken at his word. Was he really in contact with Steinberg "direct" or with a supplier? Is he in Europe? Why would he be more privy to Steinberg Marketing information than one of Steinberg's own Moderators.

I would hope for a further sign of encouragement from a Steinberg Rep (Joshua, this would be your cue ;) ). Time will tell I guess, Mar.31st is nigh upon us; will Freddie be proven correct?
I reserve judgment for the time being, and hope this talk of discontinuing the line is in fact just a myth.


Yeah...all this is very strange? :roll: :?

Steinberg has made a fantastic modern hardware product that are both popular and have wonderful future possibilities.
CMC-Series could improve even further and new functionality with it? I'm really a fan about CMC-series. I use it daily and it works great. But instead of evolving CMC-series, Steinberg decided to end their CMC-series instead?

What was the problem, was CMC-Series too good and too popular? Both I and their distributors have no idea why they ended a so popular and demanded product? Its a shame for sure!


One thing is for sure, its a terrible bad business decision. I will think twice next time I will invest in any hardware from Steinberg. As for now, I'm pretty sure I will never invest in any hardware from Steinberg anymore.

Thanks Steinberg and keep up the good job losing potential customers! :idea:



Best Regards
Freddie
Last edited by Freddie H on Sun May 04, 2014 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby Freddie H » Sun May 04, 2014 10:07 am

I was so happy with CMC-series so I have looked into for some months of investing into the new Yamaha/Steinberg Nuage-system.
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en ... ems/nuage/

But after seeing what happen with CMC-Series and all the stories of other Steinberg hardware's that just suddenly disappears in a very short period of time I have now change my mind.


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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby electrow » Thu May 08, 2014 5:15 am

501dubz wrote:I'm sure SB doesn't want to look bad in the eyes if people buying these units as they're the same ones they will have to sell the next controller they come up with. To retain some credibility I'm sure they will provide the bare bones Cmc patches to guarantee compatibility w upcoming cubase version but who knows after that. The annoying thing about something like the AI is that it's completely useless outside Cubase

(The PD and QC on the other hand are quite universal cc boards)

But the whole point is rather that the Cmc will likely go down the history as a short lived product if it's the end of it now. Some would call that a failure but I'm more optimistic


It's still a bit puzzling that perfectly good hardware wouldn't be updated, even at a cost to the consumer. So Steinberg,or should I say Yamaha dumps a hardware product once it achieves a certain profit margin. I'm assuming that margin isn't that great compared to the software. So why create the hardware in the first place? The hardware seems to be treated like a "loss leader" - enticement to buy more software? No update for Mr816 but the UR series have been. If they were a superior product it might make sense.. Some will say the CMC series is beginning to look long in tooth, that is old. Oh really. Customer loyalty doesn't seem to matter as long as customer gullibility keeps growing as it appears to be.
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby BriHar » Thu May 08, 2014 7:30 am

Yet the CC121 which is an older product is still being sold. Go figure...
...yes I think it can be easily done, just take everything down to Highway 61.

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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby Rommelaar » Thu May 08, 2014 7:48 pm

I still see CMC controllers being sold in my corner of the world (Europe). Even the shop which I practically mugged for every CMC controller, is having new ones in stock. There is still hope left? :?
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Re: Appealing to Steinberg to keep the CMC current viable?

Postby Armadillosound » Fri May 09, 2014 12:02 am

Rommelaar wrote:I still see CMC controllers being sold in my corner of the world (Europe). Even the shop which I practically mugged for every CMC controller, is having new ones in stock. There is still hope left? :?


You must be living in a CMC hotspot :mrgreen:
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