Recording Midi (Volume?)

When you render, did you try Realtime? What plugs are used during render?

Hi Paul.

Just FYI, make sure you don’t go crazy looking for the solution to this.

I’ve been noticing Cubase 7.5 clipping into the red at any given time. And I’m very vigilant about my levels.

I’ll have a song of about 12 MIDI tacks driving some VSTs, and all of a sudden there will be crackles & pops & then nothing again for an indefinite amount of time. Upon playing the song again it’ll be fine for any number of run-throughs.
[I’ve made sure that it isn’t the fridge, freezer or A/C kickin’ in & out when this happens.]

Often, the clicks that push the main levels into the red are not even audible, and yet they appear.

I know this doesn’t come across as good news, nor as any type of helpful solution, but I just don’t want you pullin’ your hair out if you can’t find a fix for it.

Know that at least one other is having similar issues. [We’re not using the same audio interfaces.]

Hi Jamusic,

Oh really? This is the AUDIO tracks you are referring to? (ie. you just leave the MIDI fader level at zero/default whist recording?).


Oh dear. That a shame for you and I know how much it really interferes with one’s ‘creativity’. I was wondering if it might just be my ‘processors’ capabilities because I don’t think I experience this on my Win8.1 PC (just on my Win7)? Though I have only really started to notice this over the past few weeks (unless its just that my ‘ears’ are getting better !! lol).


Mmm, that’s a weird one. :nerd:


Thanks for your reply. I am always open to ideas. I do hope you manage to get it sorted for yourself. Have you tried playing your projects on another PC?


I see you are also on Win7(64). Which Interface do you have? Would using a super duper interface cure the issue do you think? Could this UR22 be something which is a substitute for the (my) CI2+, or is it a completely different device? :-

I managed to download the v.8.3 Steinberg Interface drivers tonight. I have installed them on both PC’s but not tried them out yet. I was only on v.7.3 and it said that the update was designed to fix Latency bugs amongst other things. It also prompted other automatic updates to my Steinberg software so I must have been quite behind.

Just a shot in the dark, but would RAM size help with this? I have 4BG in my Win7 and 8GB in my Win.8.1. Both RAM capacities can be doubled if so desired. :bulb:

Best,

Paul

Sorry Gump, not quite sure what you mean exactly dude (my wrong)? Is RealTime a plugin tool for this process?

It is midi volume.
Go to your midi track inserts and insert the midi monitor. Play your midi part back & move the fader - you’ll see the volume CC’s displayed in the midi monitor. However, if you don’t move the fader, what you are seeing in terms of the “pulses” is a midi event - usually the note velocity if you’re just watching the playback. Try playing a few notes, go into key edit & draw a velocity ramp. Play back the midi part and watch the values in the midi fader change to their max value.
Personally I never or rarely display midi tracks in my mixer. I use the filter to turn off the midi channel in the mixer. It saves a lot of mixer clutter & gives you more “real estate”.
If you do keep the midi tracks displayed, I’d be tempted to leave the faders at zero. After all, you’re probably and most likely going to mix through the instrument tracks anyway
Hope that helps
Neil

Hey Paul,

Actually, I’ll have adjusted the MIDI channel volumes up from zero by then. Perhaps that’s what I’m doing that I shouldn’t be. Otherwise, these are the Audio or rather the Instrument [Audio] outputs from the Vst’s, for example Kontakt’s outputs [assumed most likely to be the culprits] - but no actual Audio tracks in the songs yet.
I always start with my MIDI tracks first, then add my Audio tracks later.



For me, it doesn’t interfere that much. I just keep pluggin’ away, since it comes & goes so quickly - and so sporadically.




I only have the one Windows 7 - all 64 bit PC that I built just as my dedicated DAW rig.
I put 16 Gigs of RAM into that puppy, as well as 3 SSD’s, one 1 TB hard drive & two 1 TB external drives.

And she just hums along & purrs like a kitten! :slight_smile: I’ve even been able to unplug 2 of it’s 4 fans. Nice & cool & quiet - even with all 4 fans.

The last rig was just a dual core with only 4 Gigs RAM - 32 bit. It’s now a separate house internet/office rig.



Actually, for myself, I’m already using what I think to be a super duper interface. It’s a tc electronic SK 48. I’ve had it for about 5 years now and I love it.

http://www.tcelectronic.com/studio-konnekt-48/

I’ve had no issues with it when I ran Sonar X2a & Studio One Pro 2 on it, so I think that part of the equation’s ok. I don’t think my problem is with any physical equipment at all. I’m really quite good at getting that stuff hooked up, configured and working correctly.

For yourself, I think you couldn’t go wrong withe UR22 or the UR44. I think they would integrate perfectly with Cubase, as designed.

I think that upping the RAM is always a good idea and the cheapest & easiest one that always gets suggested first. Whenever I read on optimizing the computer for DAW work, I can’t help but notice over & over again that the first suggestion always seems to be to start with cramming as much RAM as possible into the Motherboard.
My only regret, is that when choosing a Motherboard when I built this rig, I went with one that could only hold a max amount of 16 Gigs of RAM that I have in it now. It would be nice to have the room for more, if ever needed, although I really do have all the VSTs instruments, FX & libraries that I’ll ever want or need by now.

8 Gigs might be enough for Windows 8 Paul, but 4 Gigs might not be enough for Windows 7.

Thanks Neil.

Ok, cheers.

So I can leave it set at default (zero). Or, if I move the fader then it will effect the Volume (via ‘Velocity’) of the external midi synth (in my case)? To be clear here, I am using a Yamaha DX21 Synth and recording the data (ie. what I play on it) into Cubase onto a Midi Track. Then I play back the Midi Track (which triggers the DX21) whilst enabling an Audio Track to RECORD (the Yamaha DX21). Hence I then have Midi Track and Audio Track versions of the same thing (of which I usually delete the Midi Track when I am happy). The Midi Track green LED’s issue occurs right at the very START of this process (ie. when I am making the very first Midi Track recording of the DX21, so as I PLAY IT IN). And therefore, if the levels are not set correctly here at this initial recording stage, then I would guess the damage has been irretrievably done?

The Yamaha DX21 is NOT touch-sensitive (though it can RECIEVE touch-sensitivity information via Midi).


Ok, I will try this out tonight. I have only checked the Midi Track levels (etc) within the F3 (Mixer) window.


Once I have a satisfactory Audio Track version (of the external synth part of a song), then I ‘mix’ using the Audio Track (version) and I will have most probably deleted the Midi Track part anyway. Regarding Instrument Tracks, I am not sure if I am going to do the same thing (Instrument Track to Audio and ‘mix’ with the Audio), or to just ‘mix’ with the Instrument Track as it is.

Hope that all makes sense :open_mouth:

ta,

Paul

Thanks Jamusic,

I have booked my Win7 PC in tomorrow for a RAM upgrade (from 4GB to 8) ! They said they need to order it in because the part is different for many PC’s. Then they can get next day delivery. Its definitely worth a try as it could be (as you suggest) the cheapest cure.

I am not sure if I need to upgrade my Win8 as its on 8GB and seems to be ok. Is 16GB the next stage, or can you upgrade midway to 12?

ta,

Paul

Jamusic,

Please bear with me ! So are these devices an interface (the SAME as my C12+) but with faster processing and more accuracy? Or is it that they are able to do more tasks of which are more controllable?

In other words, could the UR models solve my issues as well as giving me better recording quality? The C12+ came bundled with ‘Cubase Artist 6’ so do you think it is (somewhat) a cheap and entry level type?

I noticed the UR range has MIDI on it. Does this mean you can use it like a MidiSport 2x2 (which I have) or are the Midi terminals designed for a totally different purpose?

Really appreciate your help because I am still quite new to this game. Sorry to keep hopping topics (although they are all kind of related in some way).

Best,

Paul

Hi,

I am not sure if I need to upgrade my Win8 as its on 8GB and seems to be ok. Is 16GB the next stage, or can you upgrade midway to 12?

This is totally dependent on the computer and or motherboard. I think you said a ways back you had a Dell? Whatever it is you need to go to the Manufactures web set, look up your model and look at the RAM configuration specs. It will also depend on what you have in the machine RAM wise presently. But RAM is pretty cheap these days and adding 8 GB over 4 more should not break the bank. Also realize that many PC’s need RAM install in increments of 2 sticks for best results. So it might really be advisable to upgrade to 16 GB total.

On your pops and crackles my guess is that RAM may help as more is always a good thing. But I will be surprised if it cures the issue. As someone else said it comes down to in most cases the buffer size and drivers. I cannot help you on Steinberg’s interfaces as I have never used one.

LB

Hi Paul.
Let’s take a little step back here.
I’m afraid of perhaps being too simplified here & insulting your intelligence. After all - nearly 800 posts to your name over the last couple of years or so.
First - don’t delete your midi tracks straight away - throw them in a folder if you need to hide them. Who knows, you may wish to come back to them and add a 7th somewhere or invert a chord and then re-export it to midi again.
At least, as you export to audio, save the project under another name before deleting the midi.
Just a thought.

Now, back to the meat of the question - the midi fader.
If you don’t touch it, it won’t affect anything, but a couple of simple tests as I outlined above will be useful.
Okay, so the DX21 isn’t velocity sensitive. Therefore if you don’t touch the midi fader, every time you hit a key, the fader will display at exactly the same level. It is velocity, but it only displays (really) the fact that you’ve just hit a key and therefore transmitted some midi information.
Do as I suggested previously - take a midi part, open it in key edit. At the bottom below the notes in key edit, select to show the velocities. My guess is that they’ll probably all be 100.
Now using the line tool, draw an ascending ramp for the full length of the part. The changes will be determined by your snap value.
Now, go to the inspector (close the editor if you wish) and install the midi monitor as a midi insert.
Look at the midi fader in the mixer.
At the bottom on the left it will say “off”. This is because you haven’t touched it (the volume).
Next to it on the bottom right you will see a value of zero. This is the velocity value.
Don’t confuse volume and velocity. Velocity is data attached to the note (see later below). Volume is a mid cc value.
Hit zero on your keyboard, then play the midi part. You will see the bottom right-hand value start to change. This should increase as your velocities get louder.
Press stop & zero again to return to the start of the recording.
Scroll up through your midi monitor list to see all the notes you’ve played in the value 1 column. The velocity attached to that note is value 2.
Now, a new bit for you - record again, but this time play one handed and as you play, there should be a volume slider on the DX21 (??). This should start transmitting volume data CC7 into your midi part. Check it either in your midi monitor or key edit, below the notes, select volume. I can’t imagine that it doesn’t transmit this.
Don’t expect the volume slider to change on your midi fader strip. I’ll leave you to research that bit.
Again I hope that’s helped and I hope that I haven’t been in egg sucking mode with my granny :slight_smile:
BTW - everything (I think) relating to that midi strip in the mixer is available in the inspector for the track (midi fader).
That’s why I always have them hidden in the mixer - my working methods don’t need them.
Neil B

Good post on the Midi Faders there Neil,
Thanks for taking the time to post it!

So if I get this right the Midi fader in reality is the “intensity” or percentage of velocity allowed? That makes sense as it never seems to do much with when I fiddled with it. I need to dust off my keyboard (which is velocity sensitive) and play with it a bit.

Thanks again,
LB

Edit - By the way, here is a saying I like that you might like too: Getting Old Is Hell…

Hi LB,



Dell Inspiron N5040, Windows 7 Home Premium, 2.13gHz, 8GB RAM, 64-bit, Intel Pentium, Service Pack 1.

Dell Inspiron 3737, Windows 8.1 Professional, 1.70gHz, 4GB RAM, 64-bit, Intel Core i3.

Thanks LB, as I say, I have booked my Win7 in for RAM upgrade. I will have a chat to the comp shop guy and see what he thinks about the options I have for my Win8. As you say, there may only be 2 x slots available so I need to decide what’s best.


Ok man, no worries. I have posted a question about possibly upgrading my Steinberg Interface so I guess someone will answer this shortly. It seems to be the trend that once you start adding more VST’s and gadgets to your arsenal that you need to keep improving the spec of your PC (for it to be able to handle these softwares). When I first bought my Win7 PC 3 x years ago I thought it was the most powerful device imaginable. But since purchasing my Win8 I instantly noticed the vast differences between these two machines.

Best,

Paul

Hi Neil B,

800 x posts yes, but 799 of those were me asking dumb questions ! lol :laughing:

The EASIER you can explain things the better to be honest. I am a total novice still with Cubase and I am also trying to learn lots of other things as well. I am not very confident with computers.

I will try out your suggestions in the next couple of days mate. Thanks for you continued kind help. I do appreciate it.

I see you are only a few junctions down the M6 from me. Are you ever up in the Wirral area at all ? Or we could meet at Knutsford Services for a mega expensive coffee !

I listened to your SoundCloud page earlier tonight ! Nice stuff (just not many songs ! lol).

(btw - I also have a shelf full of manuals I need to read !).

Best,

Paul

I would agree with LB on this. The cost difference between 4 more vs. 8 more Gigs is not enough to deliberate on.

Plus you may have to pay almost twice if you do it in 2 stages.

For example:
Currently you have 8 gigs. If you pay for 4 sticks of 1 Gig each, it might cost you $60-80.00.

That’ll give you 12 Gigs.

Then if you later decide you can & will go with 4 sticks of 2 Gigs each to bump up to a total of 16 Gigs for say $100-120, that first $60-80 will now be wasted.
And although you could sell those first 4 - 1 Gig sticks, RAM is so affordable these days, you’ll get very little for them.

I’m sure if you ask 100 people about this, the 85 that are worth listening to will tell you that the 70 who actually know something about this will say just go for the 8 more Gigs [16 Gigs total] in one go, giving you more RAM and more savings in your pocket, not to mention the small hassle of doing it just once vs. twice!

Yes, the C12+ looks like an entry level device whereas the UR22 & UR44 are more of a professional grade. The MIDI in & out ports are intended be used like your MidiSport 2x2, but there’ll be no A/B switching options, although you probably won’t need that.
[You could always use both, if you ever find yourself switching MIDI cables a little too often, which can lead to troubles with them.]

As for ‘Cubase Artist 6’, virtually all DAW makers give their ‘LE’ [lite edition] versions with their interfaces now, in the hopes that you’ll buy up, which almost all of us end up doing.

HTH

Another thing on the Ram installation. Paul is paying to have this done, so the more prudent upgrade would be to go with the greater amount of RAM as the labor may be more than the sticks of the good stuff! I have no idea what his shop is charging to do the deed but I would rather my money be in hardware as opposed to labor.

Another thing is his shop should advise what the most prudent upgrade path(s) there are. In other words if there is a limited number slots to populate with RAM, then one should consider they might be tossing RAM away if they want to further upgrade down the road. I always put in the biggest stick sizes I can to try and leave room for further upgrades and not have to toss the prior RAM out. Thus I agree with JAmusic on this point big time.

LB

I took a quick peek just for grins and if Paul has a Dell Inspiron 15 (N5040) Notebook then indeed, his RAM upgrade options are limited. There are only 2 slots for RAM and it maxes out at 8 GB. My guess is the 4 GB he has presently consists of 2 x 2 GB sticks. Maybe not, but likely. Thus he may have to toss all the original RAM and put in 2x4 GB sticks to max it out at 8 GB.

8 GB should really help out with Cubase and with memory hungry Windows in general.

LB

Ok, message received and understood! Cheers mate. :mrgreen:

I think that is a good way of putting it. Max velocity is 127 so if you want to do the bit where you divide by 100 and multiply by whatever, feel free :slight_smile: Just kidding.
Yeah, you’ll see the midi channel strip light up half way with a velocity of 64.
It was my pleasure to post it, just to get Paul (and seemingly others) onto a journey where you can rationalise about some things. There was so much I didn’t go into due to the question being a velocity or volume thing.
For instance look at the top of a midi channel strip in the mixer and you get a whole different bunch of things to a VST or audio track.

Paul - who knows - coffee might be a good idea. Normally only allowed to leave Stoke when we go on holiday (even though I’m a top member of the escape committee :slight_smile: ). So we do go north a few times per year. Perhaps make a special meet-up later in the year.

Thanks for your soundcloud comments too - appreciate it. Most of my older tracks used to be on my own, now defunct, website or on Planet Z and at the moment I’m not completing many tracks. Been spending time learning Cubase 7 & 7.5 after moving up from 4.5. Don’t get me wrong - I’ve got lots on the go, but the weather has been far too good to be indoors. It’s this boring retirement thing you know - lot’s of free time on your hands - NOT.
More uploads later in the year. I’ll get a chance to nip over and return the compliments on your soundcloud page too, as soon as I’ve got my old pedals off my mountain bike!! The beggars are seized on.
Anyway, enough waffle.
Good luck with the rest of your topic re memory etc - seems like you’re in expert hands with other respondees.

Neil B