OSX Yosemite and a concern.

General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics.

OSX Yosemite and a concern.

Postby Scott Lee » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:13 am

Steinberg,

I know you want to put you best foot forward, understanding public realations is key to a successful business and sometimes tricky to navigate. That said, what I also know that brings success is a good practice of transparency with your customer base. Their is no doubt you are all very talented in coding, and have along career in making great software. I do though have a concern with the forum moderation.

Cubase is broken in Yosemite for me and others, while for some it works. After the OS X Mavricks issues we all shared, I feel it would be a true benefit to work with end users fixing these problems before the new OS X retail hits the market and the end users cries foul. I would hope, from previous mis-fortunes, that this error of perception would be irraticated this round before the next OS X release.

Image
Cubase 7.5.20 does not load in Yosemite 10.10, loads fine in OS X 10.93.

Wait? What is this all about?

"Steinberg Lounge
General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics."


The Yosemite thread in lounge:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=60681

Our Yosemite OS X thread was placed here and honestly I was a bit put off by it. This is a pretty serious thread about possible problems and concerns, should we not share an open discussion about a better release this round? I feel this thread was not priortized at all and does not sit right just above threads "Football", or everyones favorite, "Leave justin bieber alone".

Image

Internal acknowledgement is great, but please share something with concerned users. This is not just a step, but a giant leap into a better exchange of communication. Can we move this to the approate location to get the proirity it needs. The paying mac users base would really appreciate the good faith.

Best Regards,
Last edited by Scott Lee on Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:44 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: OSX Yosemite and a concern.

Postby FilmNMusicMan » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:31 am

Thank you Scott Lee for bringing this to the forefront.

I'm sure Steinberg has their hands full with the release of Wavelab, and the upcoming update of Nuendo.
Sadly, I think we may all feel the pain of Yosemite when it comes, it's an all new framework.

Niceness aside, Steinberg please stay on top of your game with the Y10.10 update. :geek:
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Re: OSX Yosemite and a concern.

Postby Norbury Brook » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:04 am

I really feel for all Software Developers when dealing with Apple. It wasn't that long ago Steinberg re wrote Cubase for Carbon and then at the last minute Apple changed to cocoa, (or the other way round) had to re do the whole thing again!!

The amount of time and effort required to keep on top of Apple updates , just to keep standing still!


To put this into perspective you can still open windows XP apps on windows 8.




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Re: OSX Yosemite and a concern.

Postby Scott Lee » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:13 am

Hi Norbury,

As an ex atari / amiga / PC composer in the industry, actually found a better home in the world of apple about 4 years ago. We all have our reasons why what works, Im sure you do too! I won't bore you with my list, but the importance of the topic at hand. What I can say is other apps in Yosemite are working as intended, in fact some are actually working better then the prior version of OSX.

Its common place to have software not work when a new OS version is adopted, regardless if that OS is mac or PC. What is a concern of mine here though is we have a platform for an open discussion to exchange information to get this release right this time.

Best,
Last edited by Scott Lee on Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: OSX Yosemite and a concern.

Postby uarte » Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:54 pm

Hi Scott,

Thanks for bringing this up -- I hope Steinberg will be on top of Yosemite. However, let's face it, the chances are slim that Cubase will be fully ready for Yosemite. There's a certain quality assurance process that Steinberg goes through obviously, and I seriously doubt they will invest many resources into testing and fixing until AFTER Yosemite is released officially. What will give them more pressure than threads we have here in the forum right now, is if Apple releases great new hardware that automatically ships with Yosemite, that becomes popular quickly. Then you'll hear a lot of angry complaints... and anger is a great motivator.

I don't want to be doom and gloom about this, but Cubase is so complex, and Apple is kind of dumb about how they break their own OS so frequently. Having said that, I still find OSX a much better fit for Cubase than Windows, having migrated back to OSX recently, it's been a superb experience. My theory is that OS update headaches like what we will go through in 6-12 months are simply what we have to put up with to get the excellent experience that OSX generally offers. And for extremely complex apps like Cubase, it just requires us to be a bit more patient for updates. I personally wouldn't touch Yosemite until at least 6 months after it is official. (Except on another boot partition just for fun.)

Having said that, other major DAW developers are no better. Avid will be dragging its feet too, for example. I wouldn't put an HD rig on Yosemite for 9 months or more, for example.

Besides, from what I can see from my reading, there don't appear to be any big advantages for DAW users on Yosemite that would impact how Cubase is generally used. And also keep in mind that if you have a big library of plugins, you'll have to wait around for all those plugins to be validated on Yosemite too. That's going to take a while.

So I wouldn't plan on moving a production-level DAW machine to Yosemite for a long time.

But playing around with it on a different boot partition? Sure, no problem. With most apps from the apps store, etc... that will probably be a great experience. Just not with Cubase. Or Pro Tools. Or fill-in-your-favorite pro DAW.
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Re: OSX Yosemite and a concern.

Postby uarte » Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:09 pm

Norbury Brook wrote:I really feel for all Software Developers when dealing with Apple. It wasn't that long ago Steinberg re wrote Cubase for Carbon and then at the last minute Apple changed to cocoa, (or the other way round) had to re do the whole thing again!!

The amount of time and effort required to keep on top of Apple updates , just to keep standing still!


To put this into perspective you can still open windows XP apps on windows 8.


MC


True in many ways. There are many programs written for XP that still work fine on Windows 8. This is definitely a major advantage of using Windows as a platform. Personally, I've migrated back to OSX after a long time on Windows, and am quite happy, so this trade off is not as big of a deal for me as it once was.

However, there is no doubt that Steinberg developers have to deal with this OS update issue more often with OSX than with Windows. But on the other hand, I'm sure there are areas that Steinberg has to deal with as well on Windows that they don't have to deal with for OSX. For example, QA testing the glut of other types of hardware that can come on a Windows machine. It's an infinite universe that is constantly changing on the Windows hardware side, and Steinberg no doubt has a longer QA process for Windows against a larger combination of hardware components and their drivers compared to what they have to do for Macs. So I bet this balances out in the end.

And besides all that, Steinberg wouldn't do any of this development -- for either Windows or Mac -- if it weren't profitable. Clearly, at some point, someone at Steinberg has done their spreadsheets and worked out the cost to support both Mac and Windows, and the numbers from the accounting department must conclude that they're profitable. :) So as long as Cubase users keep paying to use Cubase on a Mac, and those who use Windows keep paying for Windows, and the accountants say they're bringing in enough money, then I don't think it's a problem.

Now if we could convince Steinberg to support Linux. ;)
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Re: OSX Yosemite and a concern.

Postby TomcatToo » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:13 pm

LOL, I wouldn't even try Logic X on Yosemite for at least six months because they break their own stuff too.

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Re: OSX Yosemite and a concern.

Postby swamptone » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:26 pm

TomcatToo wrote:LOL, I wouldn't even try Logic X on Yosemite for at least six months because they break their own stuff too.

Tom



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Re: OSX Yosemite and a concern.

Postby Jarno » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:51 pm

Norbury Brook wrote:To put this into perspective you can still open windows XP apps on windows 8.

I'm still running couple of Window3 apps (from 1991) on Windows 7.
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Re: OSX Yosemite and a concern.

Postby Ed Doll » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:46 am

Scott Lee, the reason for this is that at the moment, Yosemite doesn't have our top priority. Of course, we do test it and try to identify major issues as early as possible but a full test run prior to having the release candidate of the new OS doesn't make much sense. Once that version is available, we will have a thorough test and once that is finished, we will announce the compatibility. That is why this discussion happens in the Steinberg Lounge and that is why we can only recommend staying on Mavericks possibly beyond the Yosemite release.
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