Tempo detection

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Tempo detection

Postby cubace » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:51 pm

Any one been able to use it for anything? I tried the function on the old dire straits brothers in arms. What a joke.
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby JMCecil » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:44 pm

what was a joke about it? It works fine on songs with obvious transients. It works like crap on more gentle ambient oriented music. Some of Brothers in Arms should have worked great, a few of the songs would have no chance at being detected by any detection program from any application, not just Cubase.
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby Giant » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:06 pm

cubace wrote:Any one been able to use it for anything? I tried the function on the old dire straits brothers in arms. What a joke.


Well it saved me allready a lot of time. I make new arrangements of old material and before Cubase 6 I adjusted the tempo manualy, a very time consuming job. I need the original material to be more or less on the count which makes the work a lot easier obviously. Now I get better results within one minute even with old and unclear R&B recording from the fifties! It is the best addition in Cubase 6 (for me).
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby KDEF2004 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:28 pm

Works great for me. :D
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby cubace » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:32 pm

JMCecil wrote:what was a joke about it? It works fine on songs with obvious transients. It works like crap on more gentle ambient oriented music. Some of Brothers in Arms should have worked great, a few of the songs would have no chance at being detected by any detection program from any application, not just Cubase.

The hit it found was way off and things like offset beat was greyed out but still there was detection. The metronome changed freq when editing. Some times the first beat sound was off. And no tuning was so ever as in the replace tool. And no interpolation on sections without obvious beats.
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby JMCecil » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:44 pm

cubace wrote:The hit it found was way off

Which song?
and things like offset beat was greyed out but still there was detection.

not sure what this means
The metronome changed freq when editing.

Editing what? I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. Do you have Metronome set to use a MIDI source?
Some times the first beat sound was off.

again, which song? and what section was it not working?
And no tuning was so ever as in the replace tool.

eh? tuning? what has that got to do with tempo detection?
And no interpolation on sections without obvious beats.

Also, hard to figure out what you mean here. But, the system works on transient detection. No transients = no detection. Again, nobodies tempo detector works on non-beat based music.
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby cubace » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:16 pm

The song is brothers in arms by dire straits on the album dire straits.
tuning as in detection parameters, trigger levels like in the replace for drums.
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby JMCecil » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:30 pm

The majority of the beginning probably won't tempo detect. You could slice where the first drum bit enters and do a detect from the 2nd part of the song.

Also, are you using the Tempo Detection tool from the Project Menu? Or Time warp in the Sample Editor?
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby cubace » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:33 pm

JMCecil wrote:The majority of the beginning probably won't tempo detect. You could slice where the first drum bit enters and do a detect from the 2nd part of the song.

Also, are you using the Tempo Detection tool from the Project Menu? Or Time warp in the Sample Editor?

Why do you thing the subject is Tempo detection?
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby JMCecil » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:39 pm

cubace wrote:
JMCecil wrote:The majority of the beginning probably won't tempo detect. You could slice where the first drum bit enters and do a detect from the 2nd part of the song.

Also, are you using the Tempo Detection tool from the Project Menu? Or Time warp in the Sample Editor?

Why do you thing the subject is Tempo detection?

Because you don't know how to detect tempo? You tell me.

Based on comments like
cubace wrote:tuning as in detection parameters, trigger levels like in the replace for drums.

Make me think you are using the wrong tool. There are no trigger levels in the tempo detector.

You made the same kind of screwy comments in the post I broke down as well.
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby cubace » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:43 pm

JMCecil wrote:
cubace wrote:
JMCecil wrote:The majority of the beginning probably won't tempo detect. You could slice where the first drum bit enters and do a detect from the 2nd part of the song.

Also, are you using the Tempo Detection tool from the Project Menu? Or Time warp in the Sample Editor?

Why do you thing the subject is Tempo detection?

Because you don't know how to detect tempo? You tell me.

Based on comments like
cubace wrote:tuning as in detection parameters, trigger levels like in the replace for drums.

Make me think you are using the wrong tool. There are no trigger levels in the tempo detector.

You made the same kind of screwy comments in the post I broke down as well.

Yes, that right. And that might be a reason for being so useless.
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby JMCecil » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:52 pm

cubace wrote:Yes, that right. And that might be a reason for being so useless.

If you ever feel like figuring this out, take a look at page 473 and 474 in the Operations Guide. It even walks you through setting up section manually once you have a basic map. Once you actually take the time to learn what it is doing, you'll realize it is far from useless.
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Re: Tempo detection

Postby sming » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:06 pm

cubace wrote:Any one been able to use it for anything? I tried the function on the old dire straits brothers in arms. What a joke.


Thanks for the interesting post!

Looks like the detection is somewhat misled by the foggy intro passage along the first minute, which mainly contain synth pads and the ambient sound. Guess that this would be not so easy for human to detect the tempo manually in this section too, or?

Anyway, I just had a try on this piece. It turned out that by just taking an extra step after the first detection, I could get the beats detected at the song section after the first minute with minor errors. Basically, what I did is just use the "smooth tempo" function right after the first detection for the fine-tuning.

As for the part in correcting the minor errors, by retaining your tempo detection session (by not closing the toolbox right after the detection), you could adjust each erroneous beat at the tempo track by using the "time warp" tool, and the algorithm will correct the subsequent beats for you automatically. Well, you could find more details about the fine-tuning steps in the manual.

Hope this helps and solves your puzzle :)

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