Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8.

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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby sasha-che » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:49 am

I wonder where do you guys get info like "cubase 8 comes out in december 2014"? Is it official or what?
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby jluca » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:01 am

I hope will be another update for C7.5 before selling C8, as we seen in C6.5 process was left with some bugs with vary audio. They promised to fixit in C7 but the new release was with more problems and bugs than before, then they promised again to fix in 7.5 but bugs are still there in 7.5.2, probably they will promise to fix all C7.5 problems in the next C8 and the story will turn again.... I don't know you guys but I will pay C8 only when all the C7.5 bugs will be fixed, and only when C8 demo will be released because I want test it before buy. Otherways, if Steinberg have problems with OSX just be brave and left this platform for Windows users only.
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby curteye » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:35 am

jluca wrote:just be brave


Can't feed your family by just being brave.

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Dis ain't no disco..
Dis ain't no fooling' around —'T-Head'.


There are real $$/jobs/lives/families/futures/careers.. on the line for Yamy and Steiny.
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby sycophant » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:37 pm

Lbro44 wrote:Now I have a decision to make. I am upgrading a Win 7 box with new hardware and have to reformat the application drive. Thus I will have to choose whether to load 7.5 or 6.5.... like real soon!


C7 is a great program.

It's not as if by using it your files will all of a sudden have no backwards compatibility, they are safe with Steinberg.

Take the plunge, what do you have to lose?

It's the same old same old with this forum, users either thinking they know better than the developers and/or have better knowledge about how to market Cubase, Nuendo etc.
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby iBM » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:59 pm

Lbro44 wrote:IBM,
Your post was a very good assessment of the state of affairs as they now stand. I really agree with it and it is very true. It is also very telling that you folks in the Studio (a professional one at that) are still running version 6.5, when you have 7.5 available. That says a lot about where Cubase is at right now. If things were to keep going as they are and features are given top priority over bug fixes and broken items being fixed in the application, then it will come to a point of being the Titanic. Sad...

Now I have a decision to make. I am upgrading a Win 7 box with new hardware and have to reformat the application drive. Thus I will have to choose whether to load 7.5 or 6.5.... like real soon!

LB

In my studio (my main studio DAW), I have never used a new version before version X.1 or sometimes X.5.
It has taken between 6 to 12 months (also with studio schedule in mind), to get the new version going. Which is fine.
Cubase 7/7.5 is not even close after over 18 months. Go figure (maybe it's about time to skip a version).

It has always been a good business decision/plan, to NOT jump on the "latest and greatest". So I stick to that plan, as it has always served me well :)

I have two test computers (win7 and win8) in my home/editing suite, making sure thing are working great before upgrading my main DAW.
So even if I use C6.5 and N5.5 as my main DAW's in my studio, I know the C7 cycle well.
I guess I use as much of my spare time using/testing the newest, latest and greatest of DAW's and plugins etc, as any "bedroom producer".

But for paid work I have to use reliable tools, a trusted workflow, time efficient sessions (we're on a budget here), and make sure clients are feeling fine and getting their moneys worth, and deliver on time limits.
There is a lot of things to take into account when running a studio. Things that you don't really have to relate to when being a "bedroom producer" on your spare time (hobby).

That's why a discussion with the "bedroom producer" above don't necesarry end up in a constructive discussion. My point was that we have two very different starting points.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After commenting and critizising some of the new features, there have been countless "attacks and aggressive defends" on me and others (who also are professional audio engineers with an education).

I have asked users/bedroom producers, that "love" the new Mix Console and Control Room, some questions unanswered (not once have anyone answered):

What are your main projects? Mainly Audio or Midi?
Do you only work on your own projects? Or do you do work for clients?
Do you do full productions in house, tracking, editing, mixing?
How many tracks are you having on an average project of yours?
Are you mixing as you go along?
Do you do mixing only projects for others?

If I did 8 Midi tracks, a couple of audio tracks, used 10 plugins, without a budget and time limits, every mixer in the world would do.

Some last questions:
How many of the "loudmouthed" bedroom producers out there, would survive a day as an intern in a pro studio?
How many "internet myths" will help you out, in the real world?

Are you really prepared to discuss with pro engineers doing this for 30-40 years plus (and prove them wrong)?
Do you really have the education, knowledge and experience to see what needs those pro's have, to run a commersial studio business?

Can you see that we may have a different starting points?
Are you able to think a bit outside your bedroom in further discussions?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back on topic (sorry for frustrated venting ;-))

I still think that Steinberg need to release some more updates to the C7/7.5 cycle. They can't leave it where it is now.
And Cubase 8 has to be waaay better prepared out of the gate. Or else :roll:
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby JMCecil » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:10 pm

There are a couple of primary problems for me with C7.x.x when trying to do high volume production work (which is distinctly different than using Cubase as a composition tool). Because of them we are still using 6.5. 7.5 is ok, and in some ways superior to 6.5 for composition. But, for production work it sucks.

1) The break between the mixconsole and the arrange window for key commands and remote control ...
2) The lack of visual queues on the mixconsole for settings/values/controls
3) The control room suffers the same problem and the changed visual paradigm does not fit the use case.
4) Range Solo/Mute does not work properly in the mixconsole.
5) CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICKITY K C U F" N CLICK. There's a reason we want to use control surfaces. SPEED

There are many more issues in the issues area, but the point is 7.5 is far slower for recording, mixing, post etc...
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby andyath » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:00 pm

I been using version 7.5 for a little while now and whilst it is more stable than version 6 (on my system) 7.5 has some pretty bad faults.im sure many have been addressed many times on here so im not going to chip in.7.5 is in need of a few more updates for sure I think it would be unfair of steinberg not to do their best to fix it before releasing more payed upgrades on sooner or later people are going to stop buying a new set of bugs.


As a pc user on windows one thing I really would like steinberg to concentrate on in a version 8 is the windows handling in cubase its getting old now resizing windows all the time.
Other programs dont behave like this so why does cubase.but in steinbergs defence other DAW's have their fair share of bugs too.

Be a shame if 7/7.5 was left how it is and 8 comes through rush released with a load of features some dont want/need. Be better if a more time tested version appears with less bugs from the start with less new features and more concentration on work flow side of things for one.and make sure important things are working how they should.

Thats my view
Pc with cubase on it few mics and a bit more stuff


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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby Lbro44 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:07 pm

jluca wrote:I hope will be another update for C7.5 before selling C8, as we seen in C6.5 process was left with some bugs with vary audio. They promised to fixit in C7 but the new release was with more problems and bugs than before, then they promised again to fix in 7.5 but bugs are still there in 7.5.2, probably they will promise to fix all C7.5 problems in the next C8 and the story will turn again.... I don't know you guys but I will pay C8 only when all the C7.5 bugs will be fixed, and only when C8 demo will be released because I want test it before buy. Otherways, if Steinberg have problems with OSX just be brave and left this platform for Windows users only.


I am on the Windows platform and the problem is that there are many bugs there as well. Not sure all of what is broke on the Mac side but it sounds like there are plenty of issues on both ends to go around. I vote for a bug fix release!

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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby Lbro44 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:26 pm

IBM,
Even with your rant I agree with much in your latest post. You indeed are correct that a Hobbyist using Cubase in a studio would not make the cut for long at all. You guys making a living at this stuff are in a totally different ballgame than the bedroom producer. For one you have a client and have to cater to them and their needs. They are paying money for a service and you have to provide that service in professional and timely manor. If your tools are not good then you will be hard pressed to meet the clients needs and expectations. This gets back to the fact of what I was saying earlier. Specifically, that Cubase needs to be a professional tool. It is not good enough to push out software that sort of works and expect the pro production crowd to deal with the issues and bugs that are contained in the program. This is one big reason there should be another update prior to 8, aimed at bug eradication and ensuring that in fact what is in the program actually works. In addition the workflow needs to be optimized and made efficient!

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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby iBM » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:44 pm

Lbro44 wrote:IBM,
Even with your rant I agree with much in your latest post. You indeed are correct that a Hobbyist using Cubase in a studio would not make the cut for long at all. You guys making a living at this stuff are in a totally different ballgame than the bedroom producer. For one you have a client and have to cater to them and their needs. They are paying money for a service and you have to provide that service in professional and timely manor. If your tools are not good then you will be hard pressed to meet the clients needs and expectations. This gets back to the fact of what I was saying earlier. Specifically, that Cubase needs to be a professional tool. It is not good enough to push out software that sort of works and expect the pro production crowd to deal with the issues and bugs that are contained in the program. This is one big reason there should be another update prior to 8, aimed at bug eradication and ensuring that in fact what is in the program actually works. In addition the workflow needs to be optimized and made efficient!

LB

Sorry for the rant, but.......

...But it's kind of frustrating sometimes when trying to explain that neither Cubase user are alike. That some have different needs than others. That commersial studio's have different needs than so called "bedroom producers".

It would be nice if someone who "love" all the new changes/features would explain what projects they usually do, in what size, audio vs midi, track numbers, how many group tracks involved, how many external fx they use, how many cue mixes they usually set up for tracking etc........

If they do something radically different than me, I may learn something along the way, that make my Cubase 7/Nuendo 6 experience better.
But as said, no one have ever cared to answer the questions above. Go figure.

I'm trying to be a voice for those with relatively large projects, with budget and time limits added to the equation.
For those who do full productions, from pre-prod to tracking and overdubbing, to editing and mixing, and sometimes mastering.
For those who use mainly audio with some midi thrown in there (all midi gets bounced down to audio prior to mixing).

Sorry for the rant ;)
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby sycophant » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:01 am

All of my audio processing is done in UAD via inserts.

MIDI comes from predominately MIDI tracks routed to multi-timbral VST's instanced via the rack.

The audio outputs (stereo) are further routed to individual outputs of a sonic core system (36 at present) where no futher processing is done.

I use sends to route to FX busses that are in turn unrouted, which I use to render MP3 files.

Total track couts are large but everything is set at zero bar what happens in the plugins so I only use the mixer for what it's best for, routing and volumes come from the MIDI tracks, therefore my system runs at unity gain while preserving dynamic range.

The stereo output from the Sonic Core system goes into a TC-electronic BMC-2, which is set to mono and feeds an Avantone at +4dbm.

Occasionally I use a send to go to a UAD reverb plugin which then feeds a group which in turn feeds a hardware output.

P.S. As any "professional" would be aware, software mixers are not best placed for mixing in a proper DAW setup, therefore systems of old such as ProTools worked well in their day but alas they (digidesign) are dead and SonicCore is king.
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby iBM » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:54 am

Thank you my friend :)

Now we turned on to a constructive path. Great.

I only know Sonic Core by name, but I will check it out. I am certainly on the look for, what I call, a new mixing environment.
I can't afford Nuage, but wouldn't spend that kind of money on something so depended on a piece of software anyway.

Mixing in Cubase 6.5 and Nuendo 5.5 has worked fine with me (with a small controller for automation rides etc), but for some reason I just can't get to like the C7/7.5 mixer and Control Room (I am on the verge of bringing out my old monitor mixer for cue mixes).

I have plenty of hardware hooked up through external FX's (see sig). Both reverbs/delays and compressors/eq's. Working great.

Thanks for good explanation :)
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby sycophant » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:35 am

By hardware output, I mean within the Sonic Core environment but I could route back via cables (even digitally, I have a Nuendo DD8) but for my purposes the gear I have is adequate, morever it is all I actually require at this stage.

Cheers and thanks for trying Cubase 7.
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby greggybud » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:23 pm

JMCecil wrote:1) The break between the mixconsole and the arrange window for key commands and remote control ...
5) CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICKITY K C U F" N CLICK. There's a reason we want to use control surfaces. SPEED
There are many more issues in the issues area, but the point is 7.5 is far slower for recording, mixing, post etc...


Yet someone who doesn't use a controller and is used to click click will say "everything is good."

It's been 19 months, and there is still no way to focus any of the mix consoles in full screen. When C7 was first released, there were not even any key commands for the mix console period!
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby SYNC » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:27 pm

I'm holding out for Cubase 10.... but only after the bugs are worked out :mrgreen:
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby JMCecil » Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:29 pm

I don't think c7 is buggy.. there a few odd ones like solo\mute on the mixconsle. It's just that usability went miles backwards in a production context.
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby sycophant » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:38 am

iBM wrote:I can't afford Nuage, but wouldn't spend that kind of money on something so depended on a piece of software anyway.


As DaDa (jan) will tell you, mix controllers in a software environment are all but a gimmick which is why I have started now with S|C.

If/when I can be bothered or if the need arises, e.g. I start recording audio, then I will control Scope environment but for me Cubase is merely a sequencer and a damn good one at that.
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby iBM » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:04 am

sycophant wrote:[but for me Cubase is merely a sequencer and a damn good one at that.

For a sequencer it is the very best. No doubt about that.

As I said before, it is of great value to know how we work (differently) when discussing bugs/fixes/features.
If you use it as a sequenser only, you may not have met the challenges I have, doing mainly Audio with some midi. And of corse visa versa.
Thus you have never seen me active with "thousands" of opinions in threads regarding, Midi, Vst Expression, Loopmash, most Vsti's, beat producing, EDM construction kits, etc.....(If I follow threads on those things, it is in silence, for learning).
I am in no right to "bash" those who needs fixes and changes in those areas.

Why should users that work in the complete opposite way than me question my motives, findings (bugs/fixes), worries, my workflow etc.
Why should they nagging on about, the mixer is fine (using just a few tracks compared to me) bla bla..., the control room is fine (without ever setting up a cue mix or 4, in a full band recording scenario), and so on.

To the point:
It may not be necesarry for many users to have an update (or 4) before C8. But.....

.....But it may be VERY necesarry for lots of users, working in a completely different way, to have some important fixes/updates in features they rely on.

They can't leave C7.5 were it is now IMO. There has to come some updates prior to Cubase 8.
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby iBM » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:24 am

sycophant wrote:
iBM wrote:I can't afford Nuage, but wouldn't spend that kind of money on something so depended on a piece of software anyway.


As DaDa (jan) will tell you, mix controllers in a software environment are all but a gimmick which is why I have started now with S|C.

I am soon about to retire, but are actually saving up for a hardware mixer (back to my roots). I am a bit fedup on the ever changing world of software at this point.
For me DAW's and software has only getting better, until about "yesterday". I don't like the new GUI directions, the new iPad generation graphic designers etc, who are making things look more in the "toy" direction and not necesarry as professional gear for professional environments IMO.

When I continue my audio production work as a pensionist hobby (no budgets, no time limits etc, just for fun) I most likely will invest in a hardware mixer (no brand or type decided yet) not related to any specific DAW. But big/good enough for some freelance jobs on good days ;)
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby iBM » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:27 am

JMCecil wrote:I don't think c7 is buggy.. there a few odd ones like solo\mute on the mixconsle. It's just that usability went miles backwards in a production context.

100% agree to that.
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby sycophant » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:55 am

With S|C you don't need external hardware other than effects, headphone mixers and mic pre-amps with or w/out digital IO.

I'm not "evangelising" just marveling at precision German engineering.

If I had the $$ and access to purchase in my country, I'd have it now, X-ITE because it's PCIe and has real effects so while RME would also be great, there is no onboard reverb.

I could never even consider Digidesign because by their own admission, they are a failure and coupled with Apples intransigence it (pro tools) would on balance likely be a poor investment whatever exists now software wise, or in the past hardware.

On the other hand a software controller is not utterly necessary for production, as say proper monitoring speakers and for the job you can do it on sub $500 Avantone broadcast monitors.

While often in the forum we hear about how technology has progressed from analog to digital, having adequate dynamic range during both record and mix is possible ITB.
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby iBM » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:47 pm

I like the kind of information that includes what they like about it etc.....

I have the need for at least 32 analog inputs + and a minimum of 8 digital inputs (S/P-DIF/AES).

Some questions:
What hardware do I need to for the nr above?
Are you then tracking to Cubase? Or is the S/C system a complete DAW in it self?
And using some sort of Software mixer within the S/C system?
Is routing from Cubase via an internal "patchbay"?

I will check out some solutions after my vacation :-)

Last time (long ago, but post creamware) I visited their web site, I didn't get much info out of it. Do you have any links?
TSR - Now a division under The Tower Studio Suite - Run by my uncles nephew

Win7/Win8 x64 | Intel i5 2500/3570K | 16 GB RAM | MOTU PCIe-424 w/ 24io x 2 / 2408 / 308
Cubase 6.5/7.5 - Nuendo 5.5 | CC121 | Slate Digital | Softube | Sonnox | SoundToys |
Eventide | Exponential Audio | Boz' Digital Lab | +++
Dynaudio BM15A | Focusrite ISA430 | Universal Audio LA-610SE/2-610/8110 |
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby sycophant » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:56 pm

iBM wrote:I have the need for at least 32 analog inputs + and a minimum of 8 digital inputs (S/P-DIF/AES).


On Creamware cards (like RME) you'll get 2 x ADAT SMUX capable ports (in and out) in addition RCA analog, XLR balanced and a SPDIF port. A good "solution" here is to possibly use something like a couple of Focusrite Saffire 26 i/o (I don't know too much about XITE at this stage). You can of course use 3x creamware cards for a total of 6 in and 6 out allowing 48 individual in's and out's @ 44/48Khz.

Are you then tracking to Cubase? Or is the S/C system a complete DAW in it self?


S|C is the environment, Cubase is the tape machine/sequencer.

And using some sort of Software mixer within the S/C system?


For myself, Cubase volumes are set to zero on mix (I have not recorded as yet) as are volumes in the Sonic Core environment however, one option is to mix in Scope using a software controller.

Is routing from Cubase via an internal "patchbay"?


Only standard VST Outputs are used (some old school Creamware users persist with some kind of DirecX setup, i.e. Wavelab).

Last time (long ago, but post creamware) I visited their web site, I didn't get much info out of it. Do you have any links?


GaryB in the Planet Z forums is always willing to help.
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Re: Is there still an update in the pipeline before cubase 8

Postby iBM » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:48 am

@sycophant - Thanks for good info.
TSR - Now a division under The Tower Studio Suite - Run by my uncles nephew

Win7/Win8 x64 | Intel i5 2500/3570K | 16 GB RAM | MOTU PCIe-424 w/ 24io x 2 / 2408 / 308
Cubase 6.5/7.5 - Nuendo 5.5 | CC121 | Slate Digital | Softube | Sonnox | SoundToys |
Eventide | Exponential Audio | Boz' Digital Lab | +++
Dynaudio BM15A | Focusrite ISA430 | Universal Audio LA-610SE/2-610/8110 |
TLAudio 5052/C1/PA-1 | TC Electronics R4000/M3000/M-One/D-Two | +++
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