Summing in Cubase (unable to)

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Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby bosmarth » Sun May 29, 2011 6:52 am

Hi guys,

I recently bought a D-Box, connected it to my MR816 CSX and had everything working, except the summing routing back into Cubase 6. I guess that I’m missing something small, but am so far unable to figure out what!

In Cubase, I have 4 stereo output setup – Guitars (Stereo-out 1 & 2), Drums (Stereo-out 3 & 4), Instruments (Stereo-out 5 & 6), I/O Master Bus (Stereo-out 7 & 8).

Sending the outputs to the D-Box works fine, as I could tell from the lit led signals 1-8 and hear from the headphones on the D-Box itself.

Inside Cubase, I’ve created a “RETURN” input audio-track (Input 7&8⇒output Master Bus). When I solo this track, I can’t hear anything (even with monitoring on). And if I push the D-Box DAW button, I hear a deafening high pitch.

Any idea how I can listen to and work on the summing input channel in Cubase ? Thanks in advance!
Martin
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby Split » Sun May 29, 2011 5:13 pm

Well if you have the output of the summing box going back into cubase and then route that input back to an output you are going to get a classic feedback loop... (deafening high pitch)

In that case should you not be using the monitoring on the D-Box and not route cubases input (summing recording channel) to any of your outputs.
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby bosmarth » Sun May 29, 2011 5:49 pm

Thank you very much Split,
I haven't thought of a feedback loop...
I would like ideally to route the summed D-Box signal back in Cubase for mastering.
My question is what would be a working channel set-up between Cubase-MR816 CSX-D-Box, that would allow me to process the summed mix in Cubase?
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby Split » Sun May 29, 2011 6:32 pm

I dont know what a CSX D box is, I thought you had the dangerous Music D-Box.
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby thinkingcap » Sun May 29, 2011 6:47 pm

Split wrote:I dont know what a CSX D box is, I thought you had the dangerous Music D-Box.

Sems like Cubase to Steinberg MR 816 CSX to Dangerous music D-Box and back to me... ;)
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby bosmarth » Sun May 29, 2011 7:01 pm

Yes. Sorry for the spelling confusion...
That was meant as Cubase 6 => Steinberg MR816csx => Dangerous D-Box.
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby Split » Sun May 29, 2011 7:33 pm

I think (and I'm just musing) if you are using all 8 outs from your soundcard to the summing box then you will need to use the D-boxes own monitoring to your monitors and set up an unmonitored input to cubase for recording the result.
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby bosmarth » Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Thank you Split !
In fact, I use the D-Box for monitoring.
I'm not sure what do you mean by setting up an "unmonitored input"...
Do you suggest that I use, say, only channels 3 to 8 for D-Box summing, leaving inputs 1 & 2 for recording the summed mix back into Cubase? Or do you have a different routing scenario in mind?
Would it be possible to give an example ?
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby Gabealicious » Mon May 30, 2011 1:58 am

1. Route your D-bus output to a stereo input in Cubase.

2. Create a stereo track using the new input as your source, and assign the output to 'no bus'.

3. Record enable your new track.

4. Press record.

Your externally bussed mix should be recorded to the new track. Unless you have another stereo output that is not mapped to your D-Box, you will not be able to audibly monitor the incoming signal. It shouldn't matter, as what you hear in your monitors should be the same as what is being recorded. Once you have recorded the mix to the track:

1. Mute all other tracks.

2. Assign the newly recorded channel to an output buss.

3. Tweak the mixed track to your heart's content.

Routing your converter output to a DAW input and then monitoring that input though the same output buss will obviously cause a feedback loop.
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby Split » Mon May 30, 2011 9:45 am

What Gabealicious said ^
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby bosmarth » Mon May 30, 2011 3:51 pm

wow! I didn't expect such a detailed and thorough response!
Thank you Gabealicious!
I think you've just written the clearest and the most comprehensive recipe for DAW-summing out-there.
Dangerous Music should be using your step by step method for their D-Box instructions manual!
Amazing! Thanks!
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby Gabealicious » Mon May 30, 2011 8:22 pm

Glad I could help!
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby bosmarth » Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:45 am

Hi Gabealicious,

Just a quick follow up on your Cubase summing step by step approach. No problem with the first part (1 through 4).
The 8 D-Box summed channels record on the stereo track inside Cubase 6.
I can see the wave form on the track, but I can't find a way to hear what I have just recorded...
Even if I re-assign the 4 stereo-outputs in Cubase (mapped in the D-Box) to the new track...
And even if activate its monitor button.
So far, the only way I've found around is to export the printed track as an OMF file and then open it into a new Cubase project.
I have no idea if this is a MR816 CSX or a Cubase limitation or most likely neither. I'm probably missing something in the routing process. Could you please confirm that there is a way to work on the printed track inside the original project?
I've been struggling with this for a week now and would appreciate very much your or anyone's suggestions!
Thanks in advance!
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby Split » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:24 am

Hi

It looks like you could use the D-Box's digital input to monitor!

Route the 8 analogue signals as normal to the D-Box.

Have the summed analogue output go back to a Cubase stereo channel, route that to a digital output from your soundcard, connect the digital output to the D-Box and select the correct monitoring selection on the d-box.

That should avoid the feedback loop and enable you to monitor the summed mix.
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby DrGonzo » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:31 pm

Hi

I am interested in going this route with my MR816>>>> absolutely love this unit as it is but always worth exploring further enhancements!

Is it the difference worth it? i.e. Is the sound quality from the D-Box sum worth the Ca$h spent on it?

It has been said that analog summing is not really worth getting into unless you have high-end converters?
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby bosmarth » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:37 pm

Based on my personal experience so far - I would qualify the sound run through the D-Box as warmer and louder. Yet not necessarily of a better quality. In my opinion, it gets muddier in the 200-600 kHz range - nothing that can't be fixed at the mastering stage. That's of course a partial observation based on 4 month worth of D-Box summing.
On a side-note, I'd like to mention Dangerous Music's responsiveness and customers' services have been quite exceptional. I hope that helps !
Martin
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Re: Summing in Cubase (unable to)

Postby MickGael » Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:39 am

A timely thread! I have a D-Box here to check out, and I have to admit that I am utterly lost and need help.

The physical connections were easy. It passes audio, and does sound great. If I set RME 1 & 2 analog as my default audio output, I get sound by enabling the "Sum" button. If I set SPIDF as default audio, I get audio when enabling "Daw".

Beyond that I'm lost.

Does anyone have screen caps they can share that show how you've created in the VST inputs/outputs windows, and how you are assigning within Cubase itself? As has been noted, in this capacity the manual is useless.

:cry:
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