Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

All about Steinberg's Advanced Integration DSP Studio MR816 CSX and MR816 X.

Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Pablo1980 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:45 pm

Hi everybody

Posted this in Cubase 6 subforum, but maybe someone here had the same problem.

I am having this strange problem, I am triying to load large Cubase 6 projects, with lots of Vsti (about 20gb).

The first time I try to load them, (when it is finishing loading all samples), cubase crashes. I then re-start cubase and proceed to load them and it works fine. The only problem is that due to the crash, my mr816 hardware setup menu item is gone, so (as another post shows in Cubase 5.5 forum) the problem is most likely MR816 and large projects (the second time it loads, full integration doesn´t get loaded).

The other´s thread starter has solved it with Vienna Ensemble Pro, but, I would like to have Cubase and MR816 working fine as they should.

I am working in win7 64bit, Cubase 6.02. Vsti are Kontakt, and EastWest orchestra and pianos, mainly, EW Spaces is my reverb.

This is what the log says:
Cubase6.exe Version 6.0.2 Build 291 - 22.8.2011 17:53
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Timestamp is 4d93901f (Wed Mar 30 17:18:39 2011)
C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 6\Cubase6.exe
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Exception code: C0000005 ACCESS_VIOLATION
Fault address: 055F47B4 01:000137B4 C:\Program Files\Steinberg\MR\plugins\MemAPI.dllBytes at CS:EIP:
44 09 04 82 41 8b 54 24 0c 45 8b 44 24 10 85 d2
45 8b 54 24 14 44 89 44 24 64 44 89 54 24 68 74

If anybody had this problem I would appreciate some help....Thanks!!!!
Film Composer - Argentina

Intel 3930k - Gigabyte x79s-up5 wifi - 32gb ram - Steinberg MR816x (2)
Windows 7 64bit - Cubase 6.5 / 7.5 (64bit) - Komplete 8 - Kontakt 5.3 - Virus Kb
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby skanafchian » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:35 am

Hi there,

Unfortunately I can't offer any help but I just wanted to say that I'm suffering the same problem with large projects and the MR816X. It works fine the 2nd time I try to load it, but the first time I try to open the project it crashes.

I'm running Win 7 x64, Cubase 5.5.2, with lots of instances of EW Play. 2cAudio Breeze is my reverb and I'm using FabFilter Pro-Q on mostly everything.

Here is a copy of my most recent crash log...:

===================================================================
Cubase5.exe Version 5.5.2 Build 637 - 7.9.2011 10:18
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Timestamp is 4c93c509 (Fri Sep 17 20:44:09 2010)
D:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 5\Cubase5.exe
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Exception code: C0000005 ACCESS_VIOLATION
Fault address: 058447B4 01:000137B4 C:\Program Files\Steinberg\MR\plugins\MemAPI.dllBytes at CS:EIP:
44 09 04 82 41 8b 54 24 0c 45 8b 44 24 10 85 d2
45 8b 54 24 14 44 89 44 24 64 44 89 54 24 68 74
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Pablo1980 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:00 pm

It is a mr816 problem....if I switch the driver to asio full duplex or another one, the project loads fine. When I try to change it back to mr816 drivers it crashes.

Any one else has had this problem?

Another user with the same project fixed it with vienna ensemble pro, but, I wouldn´t like to buy another piece of software, and I´ve read that it still has problems getting along with PLAY.


thanks!
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby cenk » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:39 am

It loads successfully when you try to load 2nd time because at the first crash, Cubase changes the ASIO driver! This means when you restart Cubase after a crash, Cubase starts with another ASIO driver instead of MR816 driver. When you change the driver to MR816 and try to load the same project, it crashes again.

This happened to me with Cubase 5, 5.5 and now with 6.0.4. So it is not a Cubase problem, it is MR816 problem. I am now using VEP-Pro but we shouldn't need to pay & use another program!. We have paid a lot of money for Cubase and MR series so they should be capable of loading large projects. If a big project including 10GB of VST can be loaded with Creative's ASIO driver, it should also be loaded with MR816, right?!

I wrote to Steinberg, sent them crash logs and also talked with them technical support but they couldn't solve it.
Software: Windows 8 (64 bit), Cubase 7 (64 bit), Vienna Ensemble Pro, Steinberg VSTs, East West Play VSTs 64 bit

Hardware: Intel i7 3.4 Ghz CPU, 32GB DDR3 Memory, Steinberg/Yamaha MR816X DSP Sound Card & CC121 Controller, M-Audio Keystation, Event Reference Monitors, Rode NT2-A
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Pablo1980 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:19 am

I second that....but doubt they will do anything to fix it....the number of users with this problem is very small....

so, any other work around rather than VEP?
Film Composer - Argentina

Intel 3930k - Gigabyte x79s-up5 wifi - 32gb ram - Steinberg MR816x (2)
Windows 7 64bit - Cubase 6.5 / 7.5 (64bit) - Komplete 8 - Kontakt 5.3 - Virus Kb
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby skanafchian » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:30 pm

That would explain why now in this project it's suddenly giving me lots of drop outs and static!! The driver must be changing to a different one. When the project was smaller, I didn't have this issue.

I don't want to have to use some different software simply because I'm opening a "large" project--I've literally frozen all but one track in the project I'm in currently and I'm still getting dropouts because of this problem. Can someone from Steinberg please help?

Apart from being annoying to have to load a project twice, it's ridiculous to have to consider using some different software just to play back my VSTs--I don't have even have Vienna and I primarily use EW PLAY instruments.
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby skanafchian » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:43 am

I'd really appreciate some sort of feedback/comment by Steinberg on this. This is actually becoming a quite debilitating problem for me...I'm unable to open many of the projects that I worked on previously with a different (and supposedly, inferior) audio interface.
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby cenk » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:42 am

Pablo1980 wrote:I second that....but doubt they will do anything to fix it....the number of users with this problem is very small....

so, any other work around rather than VEP?


The number of users with this problem is very small because other users do not use VSTs more than 10gb, or they are not having this problem even if they load VSTs more than 10gb?

It can be solved with a driver or a firmware update but why does Steinberg not following this issue?? Number of users with this problem should not be a reason of not doing anything. Because of these users with problems, many other composers are not purchasing these products.
Software: Windows 8 (64 bit), Cubase 7 (64 bit), Vienna Ensemble Pro, Steinberg VSTs, East West Play VSTs 64 bit

Hardware: Intel i7 3.4 Ghz CPU, 32GB DDR3 Memory, Steinberg/Yamaha MR816X DSP Sound Card & CC121 Controller, M-Audio Keystation, Event Reference Monitors, Rode NT2-A
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby cenk » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:01 am

Hello Pablo and all,

I've contacted with Steinberg Technical Department. We discussed every details about the problem. Here is what they told me to do. With this solution you will be able to load every big projects without any 3rd part programs (such as VE-PRO), but your REV-X will not be available any more. Steinberg will try to solve this with updates but as they said the source of the problem is East West VSTs. You can also find the explanation about East West below.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Steinberg;
- Turn your MR 816 off

- Please create two new folders on your desktop: /32bit & /64bit

- Please drag-and-drop the following folders and files to your desktop:

To the /32bit folder
C:\Program Files(x86)\Steinberg\MR\fx

C:\Program Files(x86)\Steinberg\MR\plugins

C:\Program Files(x86)\Common Files\Steinberg\Shared Components\mr_extension_u.dll

and also to /64bit folder:

C:\Program Files\Steinberg\MR\fx

C:\Program Files\Steinberg\MR\plugins

C:\Program Files\Common Files\Steinberg\Shared Components\mr_extension_u.dll

- Now please turn the MR816 on and do some test runs with Cubase 6
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Steinberg;
The issue only occurs when Users try to load big project with an East- West Plug in as far as we know.
There is an issue related to several Plug ins including the Rev-X and other third party DSP- VSTs (UAD 1, UAD 2, RME DSP- Plug ins etc.)as well.
East West will have to update their software.

At this moment you can only do this work-a-round and this will result in non- available DSP VST- Plug ins.
We will update our MR816 Software as fast as we can, but this issue can only be solved if East West will update thei VSTi as well and solve their memory
overflow issue.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Best,
Cenk
Software: Windows 8 (64 bit), Cubase 7 (64 bit), Vienna Ensemble Pro, Steinberg VSTs, East West Play VSTs 64 bit

Hardware: Intel i7 3.4 Ghz CPU, 32GB DDR3 Memory, Steinberg/Yamaha MR816X DSP Sound Card & CC121 Controller, M-Audio Keystation, Event Reference Monitors, Rode NT2-A
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby skanafchian » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:56 am

Thanks for that workaround cenk. It's now been almost a year later however and there has still be no driver update by Steinberg. I've had to effectively say goodbye to all of the DSP benefits that the MR816X would have, just so it'll load my projects properly.
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Pablo1980 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:11 pm

I´ve been waiting for EastWest support to fix the problem mentioned by Steinberg (memory overflow issue). They told me the development tema had been in touch with Steinberg and were working on it. But the trail has gone cold now.
I don´t think we will be seeing any improvement in this area. Which is why I asked for a way to cubase to remember headphones settings.

I think Steinberg has a a bad reputation with hardware devices for a reason. I love the preamps and converters of this unit, but....it´s been a long time and no one from steinberg has anything to say in this topic?

I mean: 29 nov 2011 "We will update our MR816 Software as fast as we can"

Can anybody from steinberg read this?
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Guillermo » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:42 am

Hello Pablo1980 and all,

I can assure you that we are reading, and we are aware of the situation.
The developers in Japan already have knowledge of this issue.
In this case it is a little bit more complicated as it seems as it is something that should be fixed between East West and our side.

Thank you for your understanding,
GN
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Guillermo » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:44 pm

Hello all again,

I have a couple of questions if you might want to help me out here, to understand this better.
This crash happens whenever you are using the REV-X Plug-in in a project in conjunction with any other big Vsti, such as: The East West plug-ins VE-Pro - Omnisphere etc...?
Or you have not even loaded the REV-X Plug-in and still it crashes?

Second scenario, You have East West Plugi-ins and other DSP-VSTs such as: UAD 1, UAD 2, RME DSP- Plug ins
Unfortunately I do not have all this plug-ins on my system and therefore I can not make the tests.
All your help will be much appreciated.

Best regards,
GN
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Pablo1980 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:45 pm

Hi, first of all, thanks for picking up this thread.

In my experience, I never use the rev-x, is the mr extension that causes the problem, because it only crashes the first attempt at loading the large project. Also if I remove the mr´s .dll from the original folders, I get no crashes.

I have problems with Eastwest Play, and also with Eastwest Spaces (reverb), when I load REVerence from cubase in the same project, I loads ok. Also, I don´t have problems with Omnisphere.

I don´t have any UAD cards nor VEpro.

Thanks very much!
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Windows 7 64bit - Cubase 6.5 / 7.5 (64bit) - Komplete 8 - Kontakt 5.3 - Virus Kb
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Norbury Brook » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:44 pm

I have exactly the same issue. It doesn't have to be a very large project either my default strings template will crash on first opening and thats not using a huge amount of my 24 gig s of ram. I now open these projects with a different ASIO driver then switch back to the MR once it's opened.

this along with the BFD2 x64 issue are he two main headaches I have with an otherwise perfect system.


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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Norbury Brook » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:21 pm

This has now shown to be causing the same problem with the UR range of interfaces as well, do we need to start hastling EW about this or are Steinberg sorting this out?

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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Guillermo » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:22 pm

Hello all,

EastWest has to fixed their overflow memory problem that is for sure, and also Yamaha Japan have just started to do some test with the Plug-in to see if it can be fixed, on a future update from our side.
But it has to be done from both sides.

Thank you for all the information it was most valuable.
Cheers,
GN
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby cinescores » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:03 pm

As I mentioned in the UR forum area, I have the same problem with both the UR824 and the UR28M. It's good to hear that the issue is known and being worked on.
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Norbury Brook » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:36 pm

Is this just a windows issue or does it affect any OSX users too?

I'm in contact with an EW rep at the moment and this was his first question.

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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby cenk » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:20 am

Pablo1980 wrote:Hi, first of all, thanks for picking up this thread.

In my experience, I never use the rev-x, is the mr extension that causes the problem, because it only crashes the first attempt at loading the large project. Also if I remove the mr´s .dll from the original folders, I get no crashes.

I have problems with Eastwest Play, and also with Eastwest Spaces (reverb), when I load REVerence from cubase in the same project, I loads ok. Also, I don´t have problems with Omnisphere.

I don´t have any UAD cards nor VEpro.

Thanks very much!


That is exactly what is also happening to me. If I don't remove mr dlls and try to open a large project (for example 4-5 GB with PLAY instruments), it crashes. But I can open the same project with another ASIO driver or as I said I have to remove mr dlls. But this time I can not use MR816 features any more...

Please solve this as quickly as you can with East West. And thank you very much for bringing this very important issue to daylight!
Software: Windows 8 (64 bit), Cubase 7 (64 bit), Vienna Ensemble Pro, Steinberg VSTs, East West Play VSTs 64 bit

Hardware: Intel i7 3.4 Ghz CPU, 32GB DDR3 Memory, Steinberg/Yamaha MR816X DSP Sound Card & CC121 Controller, M-Audio Keystation, Event Reference Monitors, Rode NT2-A
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Norbury Brook » Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:44 am

I've asked the EW support guy over at Gearslutz to look in to this again.



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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Guillermo » Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:53 am

Hello all,

I have a small update; Yamaha has not finished with the test on PC, once they do they will move to the Mac, for the moment I have only seen customers suffering from this on PC, as soon as we have more information we will inform you ASAP.
Also the UR issue is also under investigation.

Cheers,
GN
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby cinescores » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:58 am

Thanks for the update! I hope this can be solved soon.
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby cenk » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:33 am

Any news?
Software: Windows 8 (64 bit), Cubase 7 (64 bit), Vienna Ensemble Pro, Steinberg VSTs, East West Play VSTs 64 bit

Hardware: Intel i7 3.4 Ghz CPU, 32GB DDR3 Memory, Steinberg/Yamaha MR816X DSP Sound Card & CC121 Controller, M-Audio Keystation, Event Reference Monitors, Rode NT2-A
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Re: Large Vsti projects and MR816 crashes

Postby Soapmak3r » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:04 am

Doh! I just put in an order for a UR824 and one of my primary VSTi is EastWest Symphonic Orchestra... I hope I don't run into this problem.

I know that EastWest currently have a new version of Play in beta at the moment. It was supposed to be out already, but the beta testers must have encountered some issues.

http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=42353

This is a major upgrade we've been working on for more than a year. We replaced some third party components that were problematic on some systems, improved the streaming engine, improved overall performance and efficiency, added a mixer page, added background loading, added more advanced instrument properties, and some other improvements.


Seems promising.
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