Is this greed, SB? ...OT

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Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Big K » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:33 pm

LOL...
I bought Cubase Elements 6 a while ago for mobile use at the Akademy's projects and
keeping the C & N dongles safe at the studio. I actually used it just now to get some
countryside voice recording done and wanted to send it off per email as an MP3 file.

It told me that my MP3 time has run out and I should buy the MP3 Upgrade license at the SB shop...
for 14.99 € !!! (about 20 $). This is about a fifth of the Elements total price!
:roll:
I mean, there are tons of free convertors out there and they actually charge that much for a MP3 feature?
How ridiculous can it get? They will never see the day ....

Cheers, Big K
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Glenn » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:38 pm

Avid does the same with Pro Tools
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Fredo » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:46 pm

AFAIK, this concerns the Fraunhaufer codec.
Unless I am mistaking, there is a free mp3 codec included for replacement of the Fraunhaufer.

Not sure if I am correct though ...

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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Lydiot » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:05 pm

Yeah, I think Fredo is right and that it's a licensing issue.
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Big K » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:54 pm

Sure, it can be licensing that costs ( approx. 5 $ ?), but there are free MP3 codecs, too.
Most can't be used by manufacturers for their commercial products.
But, how can a user integrate a free codec into Nuendo or Cubase elements?
There is just this MP3AudioHandler.dll file.
No advice on how to implement other or more codecs.
Since they want to sell this 15 Euro thingy, it is probably intended that no free codec can be used.
:(
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Woodcrest Studio » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:15 am

BAH! Just buy the stooooopid mp3 coder and call it a day. :mrgreen:

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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Guest » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:16 am

Big K wrote:LOL...
It told me that my MP3 time has run out and I should buy the MP3 Upgrade license at the SB shop...
for 14.99 € !!! (about 20 $). This is about a fifth of the Elements total price!
:roll:

Cheers, Big K


Basically, you have given the answer already. Sure, we can include it in the package and charge a higher price for Cubase Elements but not every user wants to use the MP3 part. So we split it and indeed it is the license fee that's the main reason here.
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Big K » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:40 am

Woodcrest Studio wrote:BAH! Just buy the stooooopid mp3 coder and call it a day. :mrgreen:

Feed the Greed™ Steinberg Technologies


Zartler...
I am not! I use my other SB gadgets with included MP3, instead... and an external ecoder, if necessary whilst outside the studio. ;)

Eckart ...
Apart from my irrelevant opinion that every Elements user is also using MP3....
It ist the "Hinterlastletzte" that you get surprised by a sudden loss of the MP3 feature.
That you sell this MP3 license for 15 Euro and make a really nice profit on it, is the open maket we have.
But, with all due respect... at least cut that crap with customers who have already spent tons of cash on SB products.
How you can distinguish? Just manage for Nuendo, Cubase, WL users to use their existing MP3 licenses on Elements, too. At least on those machines where Elements and Nuendo ( w/o Nuendo dongle) are on, simultaneously...

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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Fredo » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:07 pm

AFAIK, this is a Fraunhaufer license issue.
Either Steinberg buys a bunch of codecs from Fraunhaufer and delivers it for free with every application, or they don't include the codec, which you then have to buy from Fraunhaufer. So apart from a tiny profit margen, most of that money goes to Fraunhaufer, not to Steinberg.


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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Big K » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:37 pm

The tiny margin SB can keep is not sooo tiny. But, refering to my post above...
It is annoying, anyhow. I know, ... SB is good in that ..LOL... They can be up to their NEK into that.
http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html

Now, since I know that there is no MP3 codec in Elements I am prepared, but it left me standing in
the rain w/o warning when I needed it and that is unprofessional.

Peace...Big K
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Matthias Adloff » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:38 pm

Nobody in the world needs the Fraunhofer codecs. The OpenSource Lame encoders are far superior since years.

So, drop licensing stuff that ain't up-to-date anymore, hmm ?
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Fredo » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:41 pm

Matthias Adloff wrote: The OpenSource Lame encoders are far superior since years.


Really!? Is that so?
I've always tought that Fraunhofer were far superiour; actually the last time I made a comparative test (about 3 years ago) Lame was nowhere near the quality of Fraunhofer.
What has changed since?

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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Brandy » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:50 pm

Matthias Adloff wrote:Nobody in the world needs the Fraunhofer codecs. The OpenSource Lame encoders are far superior since years.

So, drop licensing stuff that ain't up-to-date anymore, hmm ?


Yo!

Just google for the free LameDrop (if you are on PC) - it does not need an install, just doubleclick and now you can drag and drop all kind of wave files in all kind of mp3 files (you can set the encoder settings via rightclick)

I do not know if there is something similar for Mac
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Brandy » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:53 pm

Here it is:

http://www.rarewares.org/mp3-lamedrop.php

It is! Great thing I like is that it converts even 32bit float files - other encoders put out white noise at 0dbfs if you do that by accident. But now please just do not tell me about the need to dither when sending out a premix version via MP3 :-)
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Big K » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:47 pm

Lame has undergone a longer way of improvements then Fraunhofer's codecs.
It has been the better codec for many years and there are many grat and free apps out there,
but it needs to be implemented into SB software for being recognised as Audio Export format
by the several SB DAWs, right?
Licensing for commercial use is no problem, Read: http://lame.sourceforge.net/license.txt

It just needs to be used by SB... Will ya??

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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Brandy » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:04 pm

The OLD Lame Codec which is used when export MP3 from Wavelab or Cubendo - 5 years ago or something - was indeed way worser sounding then Frauenhofer-MP3s. But things has changed - Lame is the way to go.

OT:

Well, we could start a discussion here about lossness, Mp3 and stuff like ogg etc - but for me:

I used OGG years ago, I loved it, still love it - and I loved that SB supported that great format. But 9 out of 10 clients are not aware about OGG, it ended up to be too complicated to explain them what player they should use and stuff.

9 out of 10 clients are just clicking on the file and listens to it via Mediaplayer.

So I usually just use 320kbs Lame MP3s - which sounds quite good. Or I just upload 16bit Wave files.
Those MP3 loss is a great protection when I have to send out stuff before the invoice is payed :-)
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Antonio Escobar » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:29 am

Fredo wrote:
Matthias Adloff wrote: The OpenSource Lame encoders are far superior since years.


Really!? Is that so?
I've always tought that Fraunhofer were far superiour; actually the last time I made a comparative test (about 3 years ago) Lame was nowhere near the quality of Fraunhofer.
What has changed since?

Fredo


I read somewhere else about a double-blilnd test that gives Lame as winner. But it was some time ago..
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby neilwilkes » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:12 pm

Asking what is better out of LAME & Fraunhofer is somewhat akin to wondering if Spanish Flu is better than Pneumonia, isn't it?
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Brandy » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:17 pm

Somewhat. But why not? If my clients are audiophile I send wave anyway. If they just want to check something via their laptop speaker any codec would be ok, or not?
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby SBN » Mon May 28, 2012 10:52 pm

neilwilkes wrote:Asking what is better out of LAME & Fraunhofer is somewhat akin to wondering if Spanish Flu is better than Pneumonia, isn't it?

Bottom line - both of them sounds better than AIFF/WAV/etc.
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Big K » Tue May 29, 2012 2:31 am

Hi SBN
Have you forgotten to put in a ;-) ?
LoL...


Can we have another MP3 discussion, ...pleeeeeze.. .
It used to be so much fun and I have gathered a few new arguments about it.

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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby SBN » Wed May 30, 2012 9:35 pm

Big K wrote:Hi SBN
Have you forgotten to put in a ;-) ?
LoL...


Can we have another MP3 discussion, ...pleeeeeze.. .
It used to be so much fun and I have gathered a few new arguments about it.

Big K

Hi Big K

No, it was no joke. no ;) either..
it's a long story, hope i'll manage geting into it in a more comprehensive way in the future.

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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Big K » Wed May 30, 2012 9:41 pm

I am looking foreward to that...

Big K
Last edited by Big K on Thu May 31, 2012 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is this greed, SB? ...OT

Postby Tumppi Järnefelt » Thu May 31, 2012 5:41 am

SBN wrote:
neilwilkes wrote:Asking what is better out of LAME & Fraunhofer is somewhat akin to wondering if Spanish Flu is better than Pneumonia, isn't it?

Bottom line - both of them sounds better than AIFF/WAV/etc.

Big K wrote:I am looking foreward the that...

Big K


Me too as as for now it seems... hmmmm... a very odd statement to say the least :D
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