MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

For users of legacy Steinberg Cubase software

MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby curteye » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:51 am

Aloha,

I use MIDI guitar as my main controller and one of the things that helps
with MIDI guitar tracking is to use 'MIDI Mono' mode.

In this mode each string fires on a different MIDI channel.

This means each string can use its own bender rate.

Unlike most keyboards,soft synths etc (whose bender rate is usually plus or minus 2)
MIDI guitarist usually use much higher rates.
Typically 8 or 10 or 12 (I use 12) (tanx Warren Sirota)

HalionOne's bender rate could not be changed and I am wondering
if the bender rate of HalionSonic SE can be changed. and if so, by how much?


Major TIA
{'-'}
If yer gear ain't breakin down, you aint workin' much.

iMac i7 2.8Gz 16GB 10.9...../C5.5/6.5/7.5
Mbook 2.4Gz 4GB 10.7.5.../C5.5/6.5/7.5

Location:
On the side of a volcano in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
User avatar
curteye
Grand Senior Member
 
Posts: 5274
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:03 am
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 208 times

Re: MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby curteye » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:16 am

I'll try one bump.

Aloha.
{'-'}
If yer gear ain't breakin down, you aint workin' much.

iMac i7 2.8Gz 16GB 10.9...../C5.5/6.5/7.5
Mbook 2.4Gz 4GB 10.7.5.../C5.5/6.5/7.5

Location:
On the side of a volcano in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
User avatar
curteye
Grand Senior Member
 
Posts: 5274
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:03 am
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 208 times

Re: MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby MrSoundman » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:40 am

I'm still in the process of investigating such things, but you'll be happy to see this:
Image
... and absolutely thrilled to see this:
Image
Cubase Pro 8 x64 | WaveLab 8.5.10 x64 | HALion 5.0.1 x64 | HSO 1.5 x64 | Midex 3/Midex 8 | Windows 7 x64
User avatar
MrSoundman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:27 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby curteye » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:27 am

Aloha Mr Soundman and Mahalo!

Your post makes my day.

Thanks again.
{'-'}
If yer gear ain't breakin down, you aint workin' much.

iMac i7 2.8Gz 16GB 10.9...../C5.5/6.5/7.5
Mbook 2.4Gz 4GB 10.7.5.../C5.5/6.5/7.5

Location:
On the side of a volcano in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
User avatar
curteye
Grand Senior Member
 
Posts: 5274
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:03 am
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 208 times

Re: MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby funkstone » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:02 pm

Hi I also use Midi guitar alot to capture my ideas.

I was not aware of this trick you mention
Unlike most keyboards,soft synths etc (whose bender rate is usually plus or minus 2)
MIDI guitarist usually use much higher rates.
Typically 8 or 10 or 12 (I use 12) (tanx Warren Sirota)


I think this might be why I have to do a lot of editing on my parts after I record them.

I am guessing that you do this to make the receiving midi instrument less sensitive to pitch bend data?

Do you set this up at the soft synth end of things, the MIDI guitar interface ( I use a GR 33 with godin guitars) or both.

Where is "'MIDI Mono' mode." plugin, cubase or GR 33?




If I send MIDI data on 1 channel / string does that mean that 1 instrument part will be spread over 6 MIDI tracks in the sequencer?

My soft synths of choice are Reason devices via rewire.

Any elaboration/ further explanation/ general MIDI guitar tips is most welcome.
cubase 6.07, Reason 6.5, Abelton 8.1, Komplete Ultimate 9
W7 ultimate i7 processor, 9 GB RAm, Macbook Pro i7, 16GB RAM, 250GB SSD,
UR28M, Korg RAdias, microkorg, Roland Gr 33, Godin Multiac, lots of other stuff
funkstone
Junior Member
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:31 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby DaveDaveDave » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:39 pm

funkstone wrote:Hi I also use Midi guitar alot to capture my ideas.

I was not aware of this trick you mention
Unlike most keyboards,soft synths etc (whose bender rate is usually plus or minus 2)
MIDI guitarist usually use much higher rates.
Typically 8 or 10 or 12 (I use 12) (tanx Warren Sirota)


I think this might be why I have to do a lot of editing on my parts after I record them.

It kind of is sensitivity, but the most important thing is that your interface and the plugin are in sync and have the same bend ranges. You're setting the maximum range that a bend can be interpretted as. I also usually use a value of 12.

I am guessing that you do this to make the receiving midi instrument less sensitive to pitch bend data?

Do you set this up at the soft synth end of things, the MIDI guitar interface ( I use a GR 33 with godin guitars) or both.

Where is "'MIDI Mono' mode." plugin, cubase or GR 33?


that'll be on your GR-33 - in mono mode all 6 strings are sent on one midi channel. Poly mode sends them out on six separate channels..
If I send MIDI data on 1 channel / string does that mean that 1 instrument part will be spread over 6 MIDI tracks in the sequencer?

You could do that if you want - using the GR-33's Poly mode - but you'd be setting up the midi tracks and their midi channel inputs manually. Of course, you could also line up a midi omni channel to the output of Halion Sonic SE in the instrument rack, and put one instrument/channel/string that way...

If you play around with it a little more you'll get the hang of it - especially the pitch bend!
Cubase 6.0.3, Wavelab 7, Halion 3.5, Halion Sonic, Groove Agent 3
MC Control/Mix iMac RME UFX
DaveDaveDave
Junior Member
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:57 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby curteye » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:44 pm

DaveDaveDave wrote:in mono mode all 6 strings are sent on one midi channel. Poly mode sends them out on six separate channels..


Aloha guys,

Actually Dave
While it does not sound logical, it is just the opposite.

Poly Mode (sent from the controller) will send MIDI messages on ONE MIDI channel but will play all six strings on that channel; however only one string at a time will 'bend'. This is the mode at which a typical keyboard is set.

'Mono Mode' will send MIDI messages on six different (but contiguous only)
MIDI channels at a timeand will send separate bender messages on each channel.

example: if string one is on MIDI channel 15, then the other
MIDI channel string assignments will be:16-1-2-3-4
And yes the receiving sound module [hard or soft] must be able to handle the info.

I do this live on stage every week where I use a Roland GR33 (controller)
MidI'ed into a Roland SC-880 and a Korg M3R and an Alesis QSR. (sound modules)

While the info sent from the guitar 'digital' pick-up to the GR33 is not MIDI,
(it is Roland's own proprietary language which is actually faster than MIDI)
the info sent from the controller, is sent via MIDI MONO mode to all three sound modules.

It works and tracks well for live work and in the studio all I do is
stick Cubase in between the controller and the sound modules and hit record. (no latency)

At that point stuff gets recorded and can be played back either thru soft synths (HAO/GAO/NI/SampleTank etc) or the external gear.

But there are times (when I am doing work for a client) I like to play right into my softsynths the way a keyboardist does.
(latency probs and all)

Till now in order to do that I would have to use SampleTank or NI stuff because I could not adjust the bend rate in HAO.

I could use HAO for some drums work using Poly Mode but that was about it.

I am looking forward to 'playing into' HASE with the bender rate set the way that is comfortable to me.
YMMV.

BTW here is a kool lil MIDI guitar trick.
Using Mono Mode, playing a nylon string guitar patch in Cubase with six different sound modules each routed to
one speaker in a 5.1 sound system.
If you sit in the middle of all the speakers and play, the perspective is like you are right in the sound hole. Kool sound.

Try that keyboardist! :)

HTH
{'-'}
If yer gear ain't breakin down, you aint workin' much.

iMac i7 2.8Gz 16GB 10.9...../C5.5/6.5/7.5
Mbook 2.4Gz 4GB 10.7.5.../C5.5/6.5/7.5

Location:
On the side of a volcano in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
User avatar
curteye
Grand Senior Member
 
Posts: 5274
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:03 am
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 208 times

Re: MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby curteye » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:51 pm

Not to hi-jack my own thread but I am wondering now if HASE will respond to breath controller messages from my wind synth?
{'-'}
If yer gear ain't breakin down, you aint workin' much.

iMac i7 2.8Gz 16GB 10.9...../C5.5/6.5/7.5
Mbook 2.4Gz 4GB 10.7.5.../C5.5/6.5/7.5

Location:
On the side of a volcano in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
User avatar
curteye
Grand Senior Member
 
Posts: 5274
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:03 am
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 208 times

Re: MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby DaveDaveDave » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:09 pm

curteye wrote:
DaveDaveDave wrote:in mono mode all 6 strings are sent on one midi channel. Poly mode sends them out on six separate channels..


Actually Dave
While it does not sound logical, it is just the opposite.

HTH
{'-'}


DOH! - thanks for the correction curteye - sorry for the slydexia moment - I actually haven't played my GI-20 or GR-1 in a while - waiting for the GR-50 to ship!

Cheers!

Dave
Cubase 6.0.3, Wavelab 7, Halion 3.5, Halion Sonic, Groove Agent 3
MC Control/Mix iMac RME UFX
DaveDaveDave
Junior Member
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:57 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby curteye » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:59 am

DaveDaveDave wrote: waiting for the GR-50 to ship!


Funny you should say that.
I was just on-line last night checking out the GR-55.

Looks awesome.

When you get the 50, please let us know about it.
{'-'}
If yer gear ain't breakin down, you aint workin' much.

iMac i7 2.8Gz 16GB 10.9...../C5.5/6.5/7.5
Mbook 2.4Gz 4GB 10.7.5.../C5.5/6.5/7.5

Location:
On the side of a volcano in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
User avatar
curteye
Grand Senior Member
 
Posts: 5274
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:03 am
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 208 times

Re: MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby DaveDaveDave » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:41 pm

LOL - I did it AGAIN - I meant GR-55 of course ;)

curteye wrote:
DaveDaveDave wrote: waiting for the GR-50 to ship!


Funny you should say that.
I was just on-line last night checking out the GR-55.

Looks awesome.

When you get the 50, please let us know about it.
{'-'}
Cubase 6.0.3, Wavelab 7, Halion 3.5, Halion Sonic, Groove Agent 3
MC Control/Mix iMac RME UFX
DaveDaveDave
Junior Member
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:57 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: MIDI Guitar/ HalionSonic SE/ Bender Rate question

Postby funkstone » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:59 am

thanks for this very informative post - I have been dabbling in Midi guitar for a few years and just starting to get the hang of it. I find that there are just so many variables.

I think I will have to print and re=read this post a few times to get it. If anybody feels like making a quick youtube tutorial on this topic that would be most appreciated.

I just watched the gr 55 demos on youtube and it looks great - I have been wondering when that technology would leap for forward.
cubase 6.07, Reason 6.5, Abelton 8.1, Komplete Ultimate 9
W7 ultimate i7 processor, 9 GB RAm, Macbook Pro i7, 16GB RAM, 250GB SSD,
UR28M, Korg RAdias, microkorg, Roland Gr 33, Godin Multiac, lots of other stuff
funkstone
Junior Member
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:31 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time


Return to Older Cubase versions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest