Bring back the printed manuals please.

All feature requests and suggestions for upcoming releases of Cubase 7 and Cubase Artist 7 can be posted here.

Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby galvinstephen » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:41 am

Could we return to printed manuals please? 8-)


to forestall objections - there is nothing like the convenience of a book and please do not start on about e-readers, and i-mags, blah blah. :lol:
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby emotive » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:58 am

How about price then?

No manual = cheaper products :)
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby galvinstephen » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:10 am

Umm. You can say that about every feature on every product ever made. Cubase without the List editor, or Reverence, or any other thing may he cheaper, but not better. The fact is some people prefer books. B-)
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby emotive » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:15 am

I bought the full version and true, it annoys me sometimes to have to read (searching is good though) through an electronic "book" but that's why I come to the forum, to pick the brains of experts and then try to emulate their grandeur 8-)

Worse, since I am still a student (IT) I even have trouble reading the assignments.

Answer: print it out ;)
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby galvinstephen » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:45 am

emotive wrote:I bought the full version and true, it annoys me sometimes to have to read (searching is good though) through an electronic "book" but that's why I come to the forum, to pick the brains of experts and then try to emulate their grandeur 8-)

Worse, since I am still a student (IT) I even have trouble reading the assignments.

Answer: print it out ;)
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Thousands of years of reading for some reason computer 'experts' decide the human race needs to 'upgrade' to silly PDF's. You would think that some of these geniuses might have heard of 'skim, scan, and study'. Why should I have to argue with people just to read a bloody book! Seems we had this argument back in 1996!

Yes. Print it out. We would prefer to read an already printed version. :roll: :roll: :roll: Read my first post. You may also want to consider such things as 'economies of scale', although you may not have studied that in school. :idea:
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby emotive » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:56 am

I (personally) don't want a printed manual because it means that my software will be more expensive and technically I'd be cross-subsidizing those that do.

It makes me wonder why some publishing house hasn't approached SB and asked for the right to print and distribute as well as market tutorials etc., as I'm sure there'd be money in it but to expect SB to wind back the clock on this issue...

... ain't gonna happen :|
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby Mauri » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:01 am

Cubase 5 came with a printed manual, no difference in price as far as I can remember.

Now, 'emotive', go wipe your nose yer dribbling again...
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby dorremifasol » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:35 am

Nothing stops you from printing your own manual. That's the right way.
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby emotive » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:45 am

If it means more money dedicated to a better quality manual, printed or not then I'm all for *not* having a manual.

It's just how things go unfortunately.
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby Split » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:25 am

emotive wrote:If it means more money dedicated to a better quality manual, printed or not then I'm all for *not* having a manual.

It's just how things go unfortunately.


Ssh... the noise is just too much!!!

OT... I seem to remember the C6 manual getting out of date after a few updates, what then? printed amendments to new or changed features. Once you know Cubase the manual is just there for reference.
I admit to liking the PDF versions, Ctrl F.. quick and convenient.

I suppose the down side is, no easy way to leave a PDF in the toilet, where most technical manuals actually get read :lol:
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby galvinstephen » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:56 am

emotive wrote:I (personally) don't want a printed manual because it means that my software will be more expensive and technically I'd be cross-subsidizing those that do.
It makes me wonder why some publishing house hasn't approached SB and asked for the right to print and distribute as well as market tutorials etc., as I'm sure there'd be money in it but to expect SB to wind back the clock on this issue...
... ain't gonna happen :|

Spoken like a true Californian! :D

It would be interesting to see Steinberg offering the printed manuals [just like a VST instrument set] as an extra item and yes it sounds to me like a good idea for a publisher wanting to do it. 8-)

As for cross-subsidizing argument everything has a cost - every single bugfix, modification, improvement discussed on this forum. Why the hysteria about a printed manual? Personally I like books. So there. What annoys me is technocrats who think the whole world has to 'like' the latest computer gimmick. If everybody thought like that we would all sound like 'Kraftwerk' and 'New Order' Ha! :lol:

Anyway let's face it, how many paople actually use every single feature on Cubase? Personally I have little use for Loopmash, although I like it, and do not care if I am 'cross-subsidising' people who use it. We hardly ever use the Score Editor, List editor, Rewire, and many of the MIDI functions because it is not what we do at ABC Studios. Still I am happy to have them available and appreciate the choice of being able to use them or not.

So why jump down my throat for making what seems to me be a quite reasonable request?
[As they say in California - "Back off Buddy!" :evil: ] I do not expect everybody to want to use a manual, just like I do not expect everybody to use a whole bunch of other features. Maybe the Silence of the Lambs - in this case, the gods@Steinberg is making us Forum users lonely and jitterish. :(
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby SirJoseph » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:32 pm

I hate reading on computers. I do it, because of the plethora of information at our fingertips...but, prefer an actual book. This way I can read it without any distractions. For example; taking a shyt. 8-)

As stated earlier, the search is nice on the PDFs, also it being just a click away is splendid, but I only use it when Im stuck or whatever. Id rather 'read the manual' comfortably, lounging, whatever. Hard to do so with a laptop staring at ya, or even worse, a desktop. Even reading on a tablet would be annoying, imo.
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby Winter Rat » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:45 pm

galvinstephen wrote:Anyway let's face it, how many paople actually use every single feature on Cubase? Personally I have little use for Loopmash, although I like it, and do not care if I am 'cross-subsidising' people who use it. We hardly ever use the Score Editor, List editor, Rewire, and many of the MIDI functions because it is not what we do at ABC Studios. Still I am happy to have them available and appreciate the choice of being able to use them or not.


Pretty bad comparison. Manual didn't disappear, it's still there and you CAN use it and read it, so you can get all info you need. And if you really really need it on the paper you can print it. But if they take features away it means that you can't use that stuff any more, never and noway, and you can't have it back without SB.
As for me, I don't need it, it's not a novel or a kind.. and I don't need Cubase to be cheaper for a couple of $, that the manual could cost, I better give those $ to SB team for their pleasure, perhaps they would be a bit happier and meet our needs a bit quicker.
What I really need is have all new undocumented features of every new version of Cubase Hilighted in a separate PDF.

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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby galvinstephen » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:46 pm

Of course printing a manual would mean Steinberg would have to test the software before selling it to people. :D :shock:

Seriously though it would help to avoid such messy situations as the c7 update.

Just because Micrososft treats it customers badly does not mean all software companies should. :D
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby galvinstephen » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:53 pm

Winter Rat wrote:[
Pretty bad comparison. Manual didn't disappear, it's still there and you CAN use it and read it, so you can get all info you need. And if you really really need it on the paper you can print it. But if they take features away it means that you can't use that stuff any more, never and noway, and you can't have it back without SB.
As for me, I don't need it, it's not a novel or a kind.. and I don't need Cubase to be cheaper for a couple of $, that the manual could cost, I better give those $ to SB team for their pleasure, perhaps they would be a bit happier and meet our needs a bit quicker.
What I really need is have all new undocumented features of every new version of Cubase Hilighted in a separate PDF.

Cheers.


No. It is an excellent comparison Winter Rat. You just need to understand that we are not all the same and then you will get it. Kind of an epiphany. :D

Winter Rat [Do his friends call him Winty?] makes a good point about the couple of bucks, when spread across the total number of clients.

Winter Rat also makes a good point about a 'What's New' PDF and printed version of course, with the new changes. At the moment we are learning about c7 from the sales blurb on the site, not the Operation Manual which, regrettably does not seem to have a 'what' is new' section. :idea:
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby galvinstephen » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:58 pm

dorremifasol wrote:Nothing stops you from printing your own manual. That's the right way.


Thank you for sharing the 'right way'. Actually the right way is for Steinberg to publish it. Printing is best done in bulk. Printing the manual and reference material one-at-a-time would be prohibitively expensive. This is called an 'economy of scale', I believe. :|
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby emotive » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:03 pm

Winter Rat wrote:What I really need is have all new undocumented features of every new version of Cubase Hilighted in a separate PDF.


Now that you mention, I rather enjoy surprises and am at one with the Steinberg release methodology :oops:
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby galvinstephen » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:07 pm

emotive wrote:
Winter Rat wrote:What I really need is have all new undocumented features of every new version of Cubase Hilighted in a separate PDF.


Now that you mention, I rather enjoy surprises and am at one with the Steinberg release methodology :oops:

Good point. We could start a new 'discovery' thread. "Look what i found in Cubase today?" Maye be organise 'Search for the new feature' competitions, like transpose your MIDI down two octaves to get it to function. :D That sort of thing. Could be quite pleasant actually. :D
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby curteye » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:09 pm

emotive wrote:... ain't gonna happen :|


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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby emotive » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:09 pm

Today I learned how to transpose some chords and not being a guitarist does not help, but with the fantabulous Chord and transposition tools available right in the Inspector of the Key Editor, it was a breeze 8-)
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby Winter Rat » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:01 pm

galvinstephen wrote:No. It is an excellent comparison Winter Rat. You just need to understand that we are not all the same and then you will get it. Kind of an epiphany. :D

Well, you look at the subject from the emotion side (likes-dislikes), but I see it from the point of necessity.
And think about all those poor trees that must die for your WC version of Manual. :D .

galvinstephen wrote:Good point. We could start a new 'discovery' thread. "Look what i found in Cubase today?" Maye be organise 'Search for the new feature' competitions, like transpose your MIDI down two octaves to get it to function. :D That sort of thing. Could be quite pleasant actually. :D

:lol:

emotive wrote:Now that you mention, I rather enjoy surprises and am at one with the Steinberg release methodology :oops:


One day your wife will surprise you much. :lol: Choice. There must be. If you don't want to read smth - no one forces you to, but I wanna know everything at once.
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby megacon » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:46 pm

The days of the printed manual are over for Cubase.

It's a reasonable request for a printed manual to be included but the pdf serves the purpose and I guess those who would like the printed manual are in the minority. At the end of the day Steinberg is a business and including the manual in every product will cut into the profit margins. All what is a small cost per boxed product will add up.
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby Makumbaria » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:32 pm

megacon wrote:The days of the printed manual are over for Cubase.

It's a reasonable request for a printed manual to be included but the pdf serves the purpose and I guess those who would like the printed manual are in the minority. At the end of the day Steinberg is a business and including the manual in every product will cut into the profit margins. All what is a small cost per boxed product will add up.


I agree. But I really would like to be able to buy a printed manual separately (like Sibelius software). Here in my city, if I decide to print the PDF complete manual (in colors) using a graphic service, I will pay almost the price of the Cubase license!! :o
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby ZeroZero » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:39 pm

Hesitating to jump in on this thread as there will always be some discontent. However my ebook hsa a pdf reflow feature which is great. Any manual can be read on this, it does not contribute to cubase costs and you can take it on the bus

Another way to go thats all..
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Re: Bring back the printed manuals please.

Postby johngar » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:07 pm

Printed manuals are nice, plus, you can play "manual roulette". Just open to a random page and start reading. I usaully learn something new each time, it's good reading before bed.
But having a PDF manual is way easier to do a search and find what you need fast.
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