Re-request. Save template without including media

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Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby mart » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:09 am

Just one optional checkbox on the save as template dialog that simply present the option to include or not include media with the project template (audio or midi)

This is currently a minefield for accidentally clearing audio out of another project's audio pool
I should not have to do workaround a for this. This NEEDs to be on the save as template dialog
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby marQs » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:36 am

Though it's just a simple step (select all > delete) I would prefer having the suggested option as well 8-)

(Danger of accidentially deleting files belonging to another project is not paranoia! Can happen quickly...)
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby mart » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:42 pm

This is where you might cause a disaster.

Set up a band session. Record the first song. Now you want to move to the next. So, you want to keep your setup (channels, I/O etc) as it is.

If you now save your project and then select all and delete you will delete everything from the current song to the trash. It's not gone for the moment but wait.... If you now them save as template and start a new project using this new template you will have a new blank project ... Great....except if you look in the audio pool trash can the files you did a select all delete are in the trash of the pool. If you now call"remove unused from project" you will get rid of them from this new project once and for all.

But now close song 2 and go back and reopen song one and prepare to vomit! All audio is now gone. You told cubase to delete it from song 1 audio folder by removing it from the template pool.

There are a few workarounds but I want a workflow FIx for this. It's a simple thing. I've been calling for it since cubase 5
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby SteveInChicago » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:16 pm

It would be a convenience to have such a checkbox...
mart wrote:If you now save your project and then select all and delete you will delete everything from the current song to the trash. It's not gone for the moment but wait.... If you now them save as template and start a new project using this new template you will have a new blank project ...


Are you deleting the audio events from the project window, when (according the the way the system is designed, right or wrong) you should be removing the audio files from the pool? Cubase will ask you if you want to erase or remove.

And if you open your newly created template with the files still in the pool, and go to delete them, Cubase will say that the files are in use in another pool and only give you a button to remove, not erase from the disk.

There's your insurance, no?
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby marQs » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:13 pm

mart wrote:This is where you might cause a disaster.

Set up a band session. Record the first song. Now you want to move to the next. So, you want to keep your setup (channels, I/O etc) as it is.

If you now save your project and then select all and delete you will delete everything from the current song to the trash. It's not gone for the moment but wait.... If you now them save as template and start a new project using this new template you will have a new blank project ... Great....except if you look in the audio pool trash can the files you did a select all delete are in the trash of the pool. If you now call"remove unused from project" you will get rid of them from this new project once and for all.

But now close song 2 and go back and reopen song one and prepare to vomit! All audio is now gone. You told cubase to delete it from song 1 audio folder by removing it from the template pool.

There are a few workarounds but I want a workflow FIx for this. It's a simple thing. I've been calling for it since cubase 5


The simple solution is to remove all events first, then use the backup function (remove unused files ticked etc.) and create a new, empty folder. I've learned it the hard way too...
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby mart » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:29 pm

It's too easy to click the wrong remove function in the pool. Currently my safest practice is also to backup the project to a new temporary folder. This makes all file references point to the audio folder inside the temporary folder. Then I need open that temporary project, remove all files and then remove them from the pool. Click save as template. Close project and create song two from the template

This all takes too long. Both things are a workaround to a feature that should be there when saving as template . Checkbox titles "include media"
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby SteveInChicago » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:29 am

If you click that checkbox would you already have had to delete the audio events in the project, or do you envision that as part of what this feature would do?
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby mart » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:36 pm

Yea as part of the feature when the template is saved then any audio or media associated with it is not referenced by the template from that point on-but the originating project is left alone and safe.

Thoughts on that ?
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:38 am

mart wrote:Thoughts on that ?

Like I said, the idea for a checkbox to do this is nice, but also–

If the main motive for this request is file safety, I think the user should reconsider their workflow, and have a policy of never doing a wholesale deletion of anything, under any circumstances, be they files or events.

After you finish the first song–

Save As Template. (or just Save As the new song's name)
Close 1st song.
*New Song from that template
Open pool, select all, and hit the delete key
Cubase asks if you want to remove all occurrences from the project,
  • you say Remove
Cubase asks if you want to move selection to the trash or remove it from the pool.
  • You say Remove from Pool.
Save as template again, and create a new project, (or just start your session.)

In this manner, at no point is it possible to delete files from the disk, and everything done up till now is undoable. Also at no point is there a default dialog box button that deletes anything.
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby marQs » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:49 am

SteveInChicago wrote:If the main motive for this request is file safety, I think the user should reconsider their workflow, and have a policy of never doing a wholesale deletion of anything, under any circumstances, be they files or events.


Backup, backup, backup. Often :mrgreen:
The last time I've really lost some files was back in the days when DVD drives cost a fortune, huge drives were unthinkable. Since they're so cheap now I do regular backups to an internal disc after each essential step (doesn't take much time, adds .cpr files mostly once all the audio is copied) plus I back it all up once a day to an external 3 TB disc. Nothing is 100 % safe but the chance to really lose anything gets pretty insignificant.
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:14 pm

marQs wrote:Backup, backup, backup. Often
+1 to that.
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby mart » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:14 pm

The reason I request this workflow feature is for the situation that you have a full band set up. Their in the moment. You have set up all of the tracks and the outputs to console and headphone mixes the way you want them. They cut track 1 and now want to move onto track 2. You want to be able to save this project as a template and move to song two as quickly as possible.

As it stands they talent is waiting around as I Save as Backup song 1 to a temp folder, Close song 1. Open the song from the temp folder (takes time), Select all and delete. Go to pool and empty trash. Now save the empty project to template. Close project. Select new project and click on the newly saved template. This is frankly an absurd waste of my time but is the safest and most foolproof method I have

Simply stopping the session to make an incremental backup to an external hard drive or something doesnt help here. I still need to go about getting to a template with no audio references
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby SteveInChicago » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:37 pm

You're making it too complicated.

Save as, Open pool, remove files from pool.
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby mart » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:54 pm

I can see thats possible- but I don't want to use that workaround

You should not have to do either of these methods to make a template that doesn't include media
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby mart » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:46 pm

Bump

This caught me out again today. Working with a band. Got a live setup created and we recorded the first song.
Saved as Template
Created new project using that template. deleted the files off the proejct. Went straight into the pool and chose "Remove files from Pool"

This morning I loaded up one of the 5 projects and ALL files were missing. I nearly had a heart attack

Luckily for me I had a backup on an external drive I made at some stage yesterday that still had all files.

At some stage late yesterday I must have done an empty trash and there must have been still references to the band files from the first song in there still

PLEASE PLEASE include the option " Save as Template" Without including Media
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby distante » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:57 pm

big +1!!!

I'm always scared because the way the actual templates works
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby SteveInChicago » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:29 pm

mart wrote:Bump

This caught me out again today. Working with a band. Got a live setup created and we recorded the first song.
Saved as Template
Created new project using that template. deleted the files off the proejct. Went straight into the pool and chose "Remove files from Pool"

This morning I loaded up one of the 5 projects and ALL files were missing. I nearly had a heart attack

Luckily for me I had a backup on an external drive I made at some stage yesterday that still had all files.

At some stage late yesterday I must have done an empty trash and there must have been still references to the band files from the first song in there still

PLEASE PLEASE include the option " Save as Template" Without including Media


What I don't get is, while your FR is great, you continue using the method that gave you a heart attack in the first place instead of switching around the order in your workflow while you wait for SB to implement it. Makes me think of what the definition of insanity is. ;) :lol:
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby mart » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:59 pm

I had been using the workaround that I wrote earlier in this now ageing feature request but decided to start trying the method that another user suggested (suggesting that theres no big deal with the existing system) over the past few weeks but hey presto its NOT foolproof... beit user error or software error its just not good enough.

I'll be going to my long winded Backup song 1 to new folder. Open that project. Delete all audio safely... then save as template to create a template with no important audio references.... its dumb and a waste of time to have to do this
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Save template & Export Selected tracks WITHOUT including med

Postby mart » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:22 pm

Can I get some love on this?
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby SteveInChicago » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:35 pm

Looks like you are, viewtopic.php?f=186&t=45509
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby mart » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:24 pm

[quote="marQs"]Though it's just a simple step (select all > delete) I would prefer having the suggested option as well 8-)

Nope.... Select all and delete puts the files for song 1 into the Trash can.... one foul step away from being forever once you Trash
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby marQs » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:59 pm

mart wrote:
marQs wrote:Though it's just a simple step (select all > delete) I would prefer having the suggested option as well 8-)

Nope.... Select all and delete puts the files for song 1 into the Trash can.... one foul step away from being forever once you Trash


As you've maybe seen in my other posts I'm well aware of that.

I meant the following procedure:
- active project which is a prototype for others
- select all events > delete
- use backup function
is ok, once you've learned how it works.

Missing step 2 and deleting unused media from the new project is a disaster of course. I've been going through it, believe me ;)
That's why I added
(Danger of accidentially deleting files belonging to another project is not paranoia! Can happen quickly...)
to my original post.
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby suntower » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:29 am

+10 or 11... about the number of times I've requested this over the years.

It's a time saver and a safety tool.

Plus it's easy to program. What's not to like?

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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby mart » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:43 pm

Steinberg Can you con confirm this is going to be in 7.5 or 8 ---- whatever is coming next
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Re: Re-request. Save template without including media

Postby premediesel » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:00 am

SteveInChicago wrote:
mart wrote:Thoughts on that ?

If the main motive for this request is file safety, I think the user should reconsider their workflow, and have a policy of never doing a wholesale deletion of anything, under any circumstances, be they files or events.


Yeah... or the developers could implement a simple feature & make it a non issue for busy users who occasionally make mistakes on hour 12 of bed tracks day...
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