New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

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New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby Muziksculp » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:10 pm

Hi,

Now that Halion 5 is here, it would be awesome if Steinberg, and third-party sample developers would offer new Sample Libraries for Halion 5.

i.e. I would love to see Steinberg offer Halion Symphonic Orchestra 2, and other new sample libraries for H5. also the Grand 4, Guitars, More World Instruments, Film Sound Scapes and Pads, Choirs .... etc.

Thanks,
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby G-string » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:01 pm

I would of thought Steinberg are planning something on the HSO'2 lines after announcing this

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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby fstaudio » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:52 pm

Supply follows demand, therefore the question is more 'what do people want'?'

Porting an existing library takes time & therefore money, developing from scratch for a target platform costs even more. Any 3rd party developer thinking about it needs to know there's a clear demand and market there before they dip their toes in the water.

Perhaps using this thread for requests might help 3rd party devs know where to start, or a poll might be useful perhaps.
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby Muziksculp » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:04 am

imho. one of the primary factors that makes a Sampler popular is the available amount of libraries it has going for it. Since Halion 5 has so many great features. It is just natural to see more sample libraries offered for it, by both Steinberg, and Third-Party sample developers.

Take a look at Kontakt, if they did not have all these third-party libraries available, since NI licenses Kontakt to third-party developers, Kontakt would have not been what it is today... It is surely very popular because of the abundent, high quality sample libraries it supports.

Now, back to Halion 5, and Steinberg. Halion 5 is a fantastic sampler, but lacks the sample library content that Kontakt offers, so ... solution is : Steinberg needs to move their behinds, and begin making it attractive for third-party sample developers to use Halion 5 to develop new, diverse, and high-quality libraries for it. They have to start somewhere, and this is a good time for Steinberg to get the ball rolling. Otherwise, I don't see it flourishing to its real potential.

Hopefully Steinberg will be wise, and take Halion 5 to the next level ... Namely : Offer Lots of libraries (both themselves and via third-party developers).

Thanks,
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby Cantankerous » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:28 am

What HALion 5 going for it as well, is all the abundant synth engines included. Kontakt is great for sample libraries, but HALion has the potential to be great at sample libraries AND synth engine patches, for all the many synths includes. 3rd party developers could make patches for just particular synths found within HALion 5, or they could do an assortment across the whole board. I too think it is a shame more developers aren't focusing more on HALion, because not only are they losing out, but the customer base in general.

Steinberg does put out Instrument sets too however, they have 5-6 out already and with HALion 5 just being released, they already included a few more instruments in there, which can only get better with more content from future updates, or sales of further Instrument set sales. The x.5 upgrades from Steinberg are usually pretty good, so when HALion 5.5 comes out, we may get lucky there on new synth engines, patches, features etc.

I for one am in heads first with HALion and will never take my head out of the sand on this one. All other samplers and instruments have been removed from my system and I can reliably stick with Cubase 7 and HALion 5 for 100% of my productions without issue. Throw in my personal sample collection, with my UAD plugins and I am set for good. I see no need to deal with options anxiety with so many choices when HALion 5 and Cubase 7 work fantastic just as they are. Stable, fast, great plugins and features and only more to come!
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby JOHN BG DAW » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:16 am

to be honest on the Sample Player Site of HALion for traditional Librarys like Strings , Choirs etc for 3rd party developer it lacks so many features what other Player has to offer , that i think its very unatractive for traditional 3rd party sample developer ! and also HALion are not that much popular (its definetly a shame) , 3rd party developer would make many many less money considering to the recording and licensing costs etc etc

ok we have the feature request (but that are user requests not really from 3rd developer´s site and also everytime from the same people which find some things what are very useful for HALion , but i also think the Thread are to hidden from the outside world) , but its on steinberg to implement and to make it atractive for traditional 3rd party sample developer !

well , we see when HALion 5.5 or HALion 6 comes out


what said here above are my personal opinion
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby G-string » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:19 pm

Muziksculp wrote:imho. one of the primary factors that makes a Sampler popular is the available amount of libraries it has going for it. Since Halion 5 has so many great features. It is just natural to see more sample libraries offered for it, by both Steinberg, and Third-Party sample developers.

Take a look at Kontakt,


I can't agree with you on that , you are talking about sample players ,the thing that makes a true sampler popular is the ability to manipulate a sound ans save it as your own .
Is a large sample library what made the akai "s" series popular ? I think people in our days have lost their way with the term "Sampler" .I don't want some "designer" sound set that has been made by someone else what I want is true functionality and that to me is worth its weight in gold.

edit
I also think that people have become to lazy now " if a can buy it it saves making it" . back in the early days we didn't have such laziness if you wanted a sound you either sampled it yourself or hired someone to play what ever it is you wanted , but now with all these factory samples we expect the sound we want already made .if someone doesn't want to purchase hailon 5 because "billy bongo and the amazing samples that everyone uses " are not available on this format then it's their lose really im happy if halion only came with one preset .... my own
Last edited by G-string on Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby Muziksculp » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:28 pm

G-string wrote:
Muziksculp wrote:imho. one of the primary factors that makes a Sampler popular is the available amount of libraries it has going for it. Since Halion 5 has so many great features. It is just natural to see more sample libraries offered for it, by both Steinberg, and Third-Party sample developers.

Take a look at Kontakt,


I can't agree with you on that , you are talking about sample players ,the thing that makes a true sampler popular is the ability to manipulate a sound ans save it as your own .
Is a large sample library what made the akai "s" series popular ? I think people in our days have lost their way with the term "Sampler" .I don't want some "designer" sound set that has been made by someone else what I want is true functionality and that to me is worth its weight in gold


Will you be sampling a big orchestra by section in Halion 5 ?

Yes, I agree, Halion 5 is a great sampler, but Kontakt 5 is a sampler as well (not just a sample player) and it has a huge amount of sample libraries available for it, yet you can always use Kontakt 5 for producing your own sampled instruments.

Seriously, I see no point in not having a healthy amount of professionally sampled libraries for Halion 5. Although I can always enjoy sampling some of my studio instruments, or other interesting sounds using Halion 5, but that's not my primary task. Sample Developers have the time, know how, and resources to produce sample libraries especially complex, and demanding instruments. Especially Orchestral !
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby G-string » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:41 pm

Sorry muzik I edited at the same time .

No I don't need to sample orchestration ,that has already been done by me a few years ago with my hardware S6000's which to me gives me the pride of knowing I created those samples and not using "2 for a penny" type samples in our days , seriously where is this all going to end if everyone using the same samples in the same sampler with the same soundcards and plugin's , that is not an individual style ,everything will sound the same and more to the point BORING .

Steinberg have come up with one hell of a tool and all people are concerned about is being able to load someone elses sound .... the worlds gone mad :o ( or is it me :lol: )
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby JOHN BG DAW » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:19 pm

G-string wrote:I also think that people have become to lazy now " if a can buy it it saves making it" . back in the early days we didn't have such laziness if you wanted a sound you either sampled it yourself or hired someone to play what ever it is you wanted , but now with all these factory samples we expect the sound we want already made .


deadlines for scoring etc has becomes very very short these days and you did not have the time these days to record something by you own you want to do !

if you make Music just as a Hobby or different Music Genres where you have and find the time , thats another thing !
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby G-string » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:34 pm

JOHN BG DAW wrote:
G-string wrote:I also think that people have become to lazy now " if a can buy it it saves making it" . back in the early days we didn't have such laziness if you wanted a sound you either sampled it yourself or hired someone to play what ever it is you wanted , but now with all these factory samples we expect the sound we want already made .


deadlines for scoring etc has becomes very very short these days and you did not have the time these days to record something by you own you want to do !

if you make Music just as a Hobby or different Music Genres where you have and find the time , thats another thing !


Then you use the appropriate tool for you job . Halion 5 as said by Steinberg is a "sound creation system" and a bloody good one .If scoring and meeting deadlines you use your tried and trusted libraries for which there are thousands out there now . Sorry I just can't get my head around people buying a sound creation tool and then asking for libraries ,to me that defeating the object ,you might as well just use halion 2
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby JOHN BG DAW » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:33 pm

G-string wrote:Then you use the appropriate tool for you job .


unfortunately i needs to do , but i would like bymyselves to do all in one in HALion 5

G-string wrote:Halion 5 as said by Steinberg is a "sound creation system" and a bloody good one .


agree here , true that

G-string wrote:If scoring and meeting deadlines you use your tried and trusted libraries for which there are thousands out there now . Sorry I just can't get my head around people buying a sound creation tool and then asking for libraries ,to me that defeating the object ,you might as well just use halion 2


unfortunately you didn´t get the point and exactly this is one of the reason why HALion are not popular and attractive enough for alot of people and 3rd party developer !

but everyone has its own and can have its own point of view
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby G-string » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:47 pm

JOHN BG DAW wrote:unfortunately you didn´t get the point
but everyone has its own and can have its own point of view

No your right I don't get the point because if as you say your on a time schedule the last thing you would want to be using is a sound creation system , you would want the be using a player instead but H5 isn't designed for that purpose .People like yourself I would have thought the better option would be to ask for HS2 to import H5 sounds and third party libraries and use the macro's . I still don't understand your argument , you don't have the time to use the features but it still wants to use H5 which is a sound creation system as a player seems like a pointless exercise to me . And btw im not an "it"
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:43 pm

G-string wrote:No your right I don't get the point because if as you say your on a time schedule the last thing you would want to be using is a sound creation system , you would want the be using a player instead but H5 isn't designed for that purpose .

Guess the marketing department wasn't paying attention then. ;)
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby G-string » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:49 pm

Niles wrote:
G-string wrote:No your right I don't get the point because if as you say your on a time schedule the last thing you would want to be using is a sound creation system , you would want the be using a player instead but H5 isn't designed for that purpose .

Guess the marketing department wasn't paying attention then. ;)
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HALion 5 offers a complete range of world-class acoustic, electric and electronic instrument sounds along with a wealth of drums, effects and more — all in a powerful yet inexpensive instrument that appeals to composers and session musicians alike. For all those who focus on making music rather than fiddling with synth parameters, HALion 5 is simply a dream come true. The included studio-quality library features up to 20 articulations per instrument for natural-sounding productions and covers an enormous range of styles: all the way from finest detailed acoustic instruments to legendary synthesizers, club sounds and soundscapes, from ultra-realistic acoustic drum kits to the latest electronic beats.


hahaha oh dear , well whats the point of that , they could of said that about HS2 , what a load of crap , a sound creation system designed for you not to fiddle with it's parameters :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:06 pm

G-string wrote:
Niles wrote:
G-string wrote:No your right I don't get the point because if as you say your on a time schedule the last thing you would want to be using is a sound creation system , you would want the be using a player instead but H5 isn't designed for that purpose .

Guess the marketing department wasn't paying attention then. ;)
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HALion 5 offers a complete range of world-class acoustic, electric and electronic instrument sounds along with a wealth of drums, effects and more — all in a powerful yet inexpensive instrument that appeals to composers and session musicians alike. For all those who focus on making music rather than fiddling with synth parameters, HALion 5 is simply a dream come true. The included studio-quality library features up to 20 articulations per instrument for natural-sounding productions and covers an enormous range of styles: all the way from finest detailed acoustic instruments to legendary synthesizers, club sounds and soundscapes, from ultra-realistic acoustic drum kits to the latest electronic beats.


hahaha oh dear , well whats the point of that , they could of said that about HS2 , what a load of crap , a sound creation system designed for you not to fiddle with it's parameters :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The point is they try to aim at different professions with one tool: Producers, composers/musicians and sounddesigners. Every target group has its own wishes. For composers it can be more libraries for producers it can be extensive sampling manipulation or loop functions and for sounddesigners it can be extensive sound creation possibilities.
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby G-string » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:26 pm

I can understand that but I think Steinberg needs to make up it's mind on that comment , you either have a workstation that's cpu hungry and use it for sound design or it's a waste of money basically and a lot more cpu hungry than a lot of other players out there .
HS2 needs to be able to import H5 presets and then the sound designers can flow on H5 and the composers can flow on hs2 and what ever library's they like .
The whole thing about 3rd party libraries should of been asked for in hs2 really and not for H5
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby MrSoundman » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:37 pm

[... one more time ...]

I think it would be great if you could create .vstsound files using H5 that were playable in HALion Sonic SE. It would be the opposite to Native Instruments ... with them you get a free player, but have to pay for the libraries, and if you get a free library, it will only play in the full version of Kontakt.

HSSE comes with all editions of Cubase, so Steinberg already have an almost "free" player in the form of Cubase LE, and if there was a community-contributed free library for HSSE it would be a huge incentive for people to try out Cubase, and consequently HSSE and H4.
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:08 pm

G-string wrote:I can understand that but I think Steinberg needs to make up it's mind on that comment , you either have a workstation that's cpu hungry and use it for sound design or it's a waste of money basically and a lot more cpu hungry than a lot of other players out there .
HS2 needs to be able to import H5 presets and then the sound designers can flow on H5 and the composers can flow on hs2 and what ever library's they like .
The whole thing about 3rd party libraries should of been asked for in hs2 really and not for H5

I think it's a rather interesting move to focus on a broader audience. The lines between the different professions is getting thiner and thiner these days. A lot of musicians also produce and create their own sounds for instance. The fact you are able to modify a library at sample level is a big plus over Halionsonic and gives you the possibility to modify the base material to something completely different. The fact Halion has it's own synth engine to build sounds from scratch is great tool for sound designers but also for producers.

The hardest part is to keep everybody happy when you target three groups with one product. A risk can be the implemented tools are mediocre instead of top notch compared to separate products that are aimed at doing one kind of task and are being developed by dedicated teams.
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby JOHN BG DAW » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:28 pm

G-string wrote:I can understand that but I think Steinberg needs to make up it's mind on that comment , you either have a workstation that's cpu hungry and use it for sound design or it's a waste of money basically and a lot more cpu hungry than a lot of other players out there .
HS2 needs to be able to import H5 presets and then the sound designers can flow on H5 and the composers can flow on hs2 and what ever library's they like .
The whole thing about 3rd party libraries should of been asked for in hs2 really and not for H5


well , in HS2 you are Limited to Libraries which are made by Steinberg only , it even lacks features like a simple sample import and sample mapping , you can´t even import other Formats into HS2 ! if you need this simple features User are forced to buy HALion (ok you can buy other samplers instead) ! alot of Composer layering different Libraries together etc , you can´t do that easy with HS2 !
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby fstaudio » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:14 pm

A lot of good points made.
musiksculp wrote:Sample Developers have the time, know how, and resources to produce sample libraries especially complex, and demanding instruments. Especially Orchestral !

Yes, though orchestral costs big $$$$, & what developer is going to commit to that kind of upfront expenditure for a smaller potential market and thereby less chance of a return? When there's a perfectly good sampler with a 'free' player out there with a large user base already in place.

Kontakt's long since won the 'pre-pack' library market, and I don't think SB are interested in tackling that market again (they've already been there with the HALion Player, which didn't go so well...) so they're approaching it from a different angle. UVI are giving it a shot, and good luck to them as M5v3 is a great product, but equally it points more to the direction of where the 4th generation samplers like H5 are heading, towards comprehensive sound design platforms.

Code: Select all
IF $USEAGE="rompler" THEN $PRODUCT='Kontakt'

OK, a bit of a cheap-shot, but I wonder how many Kontakt users actually ever crack open the wrench? Do people mainly upgrade from the free player to take advantage of the smaller/cheaper non-protected libraries? Only NI market research know.... However, for people who do want a powerful sample-based instrument, mainly do their own programming/sound design, and are not interested in coding : that's where HAL5 and the like come in.

I understand what you're saying, that the install base won't grow without more libraries being available, and i'd love to see that too, really :), but it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. If the factory library was poor then there'd be a ready-made hole to fill, but it's actually one of the best and most comprehensive.

MrSoundman wrote:I think it would be great if you could create .vstsound files using H5 that were playable in HALion Sonic SE

Agreed, and then every Cubase user becomes a potential customer, a much more attractive proposition. Not sure how much of the code-base is shared though.
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby MrSoundman » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:39 pm

fstaudio wrote:I wonder how many Kontakt users actually ever crack open the wrench?
Judging by the amount of activity on the NI KSP forum, and the fact that only a single book on the subject has been published (that I know of), very, very few ....
fstaudio wrote:Do people mainly upgrade from the free player to take advantage of the smaller/cheaper non-protected libraries?
I would think so, absolutely. Up to K4.2.2, it also has its uses as an "in-between" step in converting certain formats, i.e. lots of stuff will convert to Kontakt format, which you can then load into HALion.
fstaudio wrote:
MrSoundman wrote:I think it would be great if you could create .vstsound files using H5 that were playable in HALion Sonic SE
Agreed, and then every Cubase user becomes a potential customer, a much more attractive proposition. Not sure how much of the code-base is shared though.
I would be surprised if the player engines in HALion, HALion Sonic and HALion Sonic SE were not identical.
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby iRan » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:42 pm

My Self, Im not a pro (I don't make money by making music ) but Im very serious and
passionate at creating. Midi controllers and software instruments are my main thing,

When HAlion 5 came out I was blown away, Cubase7 and HALion 5 is all I been using now..
A powerful duo , So much so that it has made a big impact on me in my music life :lol:
Sure I like to see more libraries, New libraries and development could also mean new technologies
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby Home Studio 87 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:43 pm

Me I just Hope Steinberg gonna make other plugin "compatible" with HALion like "The Grand 4" & " Groove Agent 4" and other future one ! And why not after That some other manufacturer..... ;) ;)
But for sure it's a great instrument for the creativity !
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Re: New Steinberg and 3rd-Party Sample Libraries for H5 ?

Postby Muziksculp » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:11 am

Hi,

I wish YAMAHA would focus on making some of the best sound libraries for Halion 5 and Halion Sonic 2 !

Sadly, they are still stuck in the world of Hardware (workstations like the Motif), where limitations are all over the place, why don't they just move to the fast-paced world of software, and sound development.

YAMAHA has a lot of experience in sampling, especially when it comes to squeezing some of the best sounds in the industry into their Motif line, which has a lot of limitations compared to what Halion 5 & HS 2 can offer. It is just logical to me that YAMAHA should be the driving force behind the sound/library development for the Halion line.

So, why doesn't YAMAHA focus on developing high-quality, first class sample libraries for H5 & HS2, in addition to developing some innovative synthesis technologies for VST synths, Granular is getting more popular now that Steinberg has done this right with PadShop Pro, and gone to the next step with Halion 5. So, why stop here, YAMAHA / Steinberg can introduce some other innovative synthesis technologies (i.e. The next generation of Physical Modeling, New FM based synths, ...etc. etc.)

If third-party sound developers don't want to deal with developing sound libraries for Halion 5, then YAMAHA should do it. (forget about 3rd-party developers), they can focus on developing for Kontakt :)

Just my 3 Cents on this topic.

Cheers,
Muziksculp
Cubase 7.5, Halion 5, Halion Sonic 2, Padshop Pro, RND Portico EQ & Compressor, Wavelab 8, 3 X PC systems, 2 X RME UFX Audio Interfaces.
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