[Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST2.4?

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[Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST2.4?

Postby Freddie H » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:31 am

[Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST2.4 plugins or it only restricted VST3 only?


So can I use it with VST 2.4 software's like Omnisphere, Kontakt 5 as a Instrument Track 2.0?
I guess not! Only VST3, right?



I think its just ridiculous that we are almost in year 2014, still need to put up with that major plugins manufactories haven't upgrade their plugins to support VST3 standard yet? MAJOR plugin-manufactories like Native Instruments, Spectrasonics, Nomad Factory, Cakewalk other software's then X-series etc.. Great plugins but no VST3 support?




Thanks in advance!




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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby JMCecil » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:12 am

Actually, they have some very valid reasons for not updating to VST3 ... as you know, bi-directional conversation about their technical implementations isn't the Borgz best trait.

EDIT: And I would love to know that answer as well.
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby HughH » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:10 am

Freddie H wrote:[Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST2.4 plugins or it only restricted VST3 only?


What makes you think it WONT work with VST 2.4 instruments?
Did I miss something in the promos?

There's really no new functionality that could not be achieved with the rack and MIDI tracks - just fewer mouse clicks and better integration.

I'm happy to see that the "open output" dialog stays open while selecting multiple outs.

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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby forthwith » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:31 am

Only pre VST 2.4 plugin support has been formally dropped from the specification.
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby Weasel » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:06 am

You know, Freddie, reading your posts is equivalent to that of a drunk in a bar shouting in my ear.
Large text doesn't proportionally increase the importance of your question.

The chances of Steinberg setting off a firestorm of criticism by designing the new Instrument track interface to disenfranchise thousands of users the ability to use their VST 2.4 plug-ins is laughable at best.
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby orchetect » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:33 am

Weasel wrote:The chances of Steinberg setting off a firestorm of criticism by [...] disenfranchising thousands of users the ability to use their [old plug-in format] is laughable at best.


Yes. As we all know, only Avid gets away with this.
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby G-string » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:37 am

orchetect wrote:
Weasel wrote:The chances of Steinberg setting off a firestorm of criticism by [...] disenfranchising thousands of users the ability to use their [old plug-in format] is laughable at best.


Yes. As we all know, only Avid gets away with this.


and Apple , every time they introduce a new version of OS everybody else is expected to drop everything they are working on and spend loads of money and follow suit !
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby Freddie H » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:25 am

HughH wrote:
Freddie H wrote:[Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST2.4 plugins or it only restricted VST3 only?


What makes you think it WONT work with VST 2.4 instruments?
Did I miss something in the promos?

There's really no new functionality that could not be achieved with the rack and MIDI tracks - just fewer mouse clicks and better integration.

I'm happy to see that the "open output" dialog stays open while selecting multiple outs.

Hugh



Hi Hugh! :)

I hope you are right! ;)
I use VSTI a lot everyday and to have a better integration (MIDI+ instrument-Audio on same track) would be extremely benefit for me working with multitimbral VSTI's like KONTAKT and Omnisphere etc. The clutterly structure in the mixer page will improve greatly. I hope Steinberg has add this support so it works with VST 2.4 instruments too. :D


For me, its no brainer to update for €49.99. Just this new 7.5 feature is easily worth the upgrade cost.
Great work Steinberg!!

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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby Cole » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:42 am

HughH wrote:I'm happy to see that the "open output" dialog stays open while selecting multiple outs.



Oh goodness yes. Something I've wanted for a long time. Awesome work flow enhancement. :D
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby curteye » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:50 am

G-string wrote:[everybody else is expected to drop everything they are working on and spend loads of money and follow suit !


Not true.

Just don't upgrade/date.
Just keep using what you already have.
It will still work just fine.

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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby jaslan » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:15 am

Freddie H wrote:bump :)

I reckon you are waiting for an official response but I am with a few others in thinking that it HAS to work with VST 2.4. This IS the instrument rack. If it didn't accept VST 2.4 then where would we put those instruments? This is the same instrument rack as before with a new look (mainly the quick controls).
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby JMCecil » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:20 am

I think we are talking about presets extra qc and auto hookup. Not if you can load a 2.4 vsti
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby jaslan » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:27 am

JMCecil wrote:I think we are talking about presets extra qc and auto hookup. Not if you can load a 2.4 vsti

Oh, I see... My guess is that those aspects will function the same way the did in the inspector (presets and QC, that is). The auto-hookup.... No idea.
I will admit I like the new look (looks like the instrument rack in Kontakt) but I don't really see any new functionality (meaning something I couldn't do before).
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby JMCecil » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:30 am

You couldn't save multiout presets, have multilayer qc separate from the track qc, have more than one input, or have channels auto assigned. All things you couldn't do before
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby JMCecil » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:32 am

The kontakt look concerns me. Its good for simple. Terrible for complex.
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby jaslan » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:00 am

JMCecil wrote:couldn't save multiout presets

Didn't know it could do this. The description on the product page doesn't mention it and I don't remember it in the video (can't watch it again from here). If it does, this is an excellent addition.
JMCecil wrote:have multilayer qc separate from the track qc

I think you mean like on the HALion based instruments (i.e. layer QC, program QC, etc), which I could do before but had to use the instrument GUI.
If that is not what you mean, then I am genuinely interested.
JMCecil wrote:have more than one input

I could feed multiple MIDI tracks to an instrument in the rack before. Is this not what we are talking about?
JMCecil wrote:have channels auto assigned

I am trying to picture a use case of this. Does it mean when I load a new slot, it automatically creates and activates a new output channel? Of course, whatever it does automatically, I can do manually (which is what I meant).
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby JMCecil » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:59 pm

jaslan wrote:
JMCecil wrote:have multilayer qc separate from the track qc
I think you mean like on the HALion based instruments (i.e. layer QC, program QC, etc), which I could do before but had to use the instrument GUI.
If that is not what you mean, then I am genuinely interested.

The question is, can we do this with all VSTi, including 2.4 ... not just Halion. That was kind of the point of this thread. Also, even Halion suffers from focus issues using the QC. Even when in focus it will often get overtaken by the Track QC. At least I've had that problem.
jaslan wrote:
JMCecil wrote:have more than one input

I could feed multiple MIDI tracks to an instrument in the rack before. Is this not what we are talking about?


Any single MIDI track could only have 1 source or ALL sources. Supposedley you can control the input to a single instrument with multiple inputs, not just all or one. However, none of the videos actually click the button that would let you see what they actually mean, and none demo the capability. So, it is still unclear how it will work. It is also unclear if it only works with VST3 plugs with something from the 3.6 SDK.
jaslan wrote:
JMCecil wrote:have channels auto assigned

I am trying to picture a use case of this. Does it mean when I load a new slot, it automatically creates and activates a new output channel? Of course, whatever it does automatically, I can do manually (which is what I meant).

One of the videos shows it, but the real benefit would be for initial setup and multi-in/multi-out preset configuration. I'm hoping that when I create some number of MIDI tracks that I want to assign to a plugin, that they will auto range from 1->xxx input. Yes you can do it manually. The point is to do it NOT manually.

To be honest multi-out presets are not that exciting. Until they add multi-track type presets, it's all just foundation. I'll wait to see how the new presets work. But, I'm not hopeful.
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby Freddie H » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:24 pm

jaslan wrote:
Freddie H wrote:bump :)

I reckon you are waiting for an official response but I am with a few others in thinking that it HAS to work with VST 2.4. This IS the instrument rack. If it didn't accept VST 2.4 then where would we put those instruments? This is the same instrument rack as before with a new look (mainly the quick controls).



Okay! I hope so! ;)


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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby jaslan » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:28 pm

JMCecil wrote:multi-track type presets

Yes. Multi track inputs and multi channel output presets for multi-timbral VSTi's (one preset to set the whole configuration up) will be a great addition.
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby Freddie H » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:39 pm

jaslan wrote:I will admit I like the new look (looks like the instrument rack in Kontakt) but I don't really see any new functionality (meaning something I couldn't do before).


I don't know how your work flow is but...

The greatly new benefit is:----> instead of need to use MIDI + a new extra map added to "VST INSTUMENTS"-map with all the "multi synth audio ports" I have now just one single track that include everything in both Track view and MIxer-view-.

I can now place the new "Synth instrument-track 2.0" of example (Kontakt 5-Midi CH1- port 1-2) at Track view on "CH10" and it will come up on the exactly the same place and order in the Mixer-view "CH10" page.
Today you often disable all the view of "MIDI tracks" in Mixer-view because you don't want to see them in Mixer-view at all. Its just clutterly.


Now the new beauty is that example normal "Audio-tracks" and "Synth Audio tracks" can example co exist next to each other both in Track-view section in CUBASE and MIXER-view. This new "Instrument tracks 2.0" working with not just single VSTI's but even use them with multiple audio tracks VST- instrument like KONTAKT, Halion, Omnisphere, Trillian, Stylus RMX, NI Machine etc..will make old midi-tracks more less unnecessary unless you using external hardware synths that still need the use of old midi tracks only. I bet you can use "Instrument tracks 2.0" with external hardware synths too.


I hope it help you to see the new benefits!

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Last edited by Freddie H on Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby JMCecil » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:58 pm

@Freddie, you attributed a quote to me that I didn't make. ...

I have some concerns about the features ... How useful is a multi-out preset if you can't save the multi-track configuration with Folders, Groups and driver channels? I'm not saying that can't be done, but it doesn't look like it.

For example, My drum configs typically have between 40 and 90 tracks if you include groups, audio capture tracks and two levels of folders for organization. I also primarily keep FX on the groups and capture tracks. From the look, it seems I can only save the output configuration with the preset. Not the other track types that make the preset usable. From a time standpoint, it solves the least time consuming portion of the setup FOR ME.

The (t)rack looks like a baby step towards a really functional preset system. Here's hoping.
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby Freddie H » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:13 pm

orchetect wrote:
Weasel wrote:The chances of Steinberg setting off a firestorm of criticism by [...] disenfranchising thousands of users the ability to use their [old plug-in format] is laughable at best.


Yes. As we all know, only Avid gets away with this.



And still AVID's DAW is clearly a minority especially on the professional modern producers, electronic music and track and score for film TV. I laughed every time that so many ignorant people don't know the reality about this.
Yes, Pro Tools was the standard in the mid 90ths but that's the past not anymore. Its just the latest version of AVID PT that they finally tried to catch up to the rest of the DAWs. Pro Tools 11 finally went x64 and now support surround 5.1 -2013.

Still the companies like Native instruments, Spectrasonics etc. have no problem to spend thousands of dollars to support AAX2 x64 but still no VST3 versions after 7 years of wait since 2006 when VST3 were introduced??? :( :roll:

Let me tell you, there are more DAWS and user that both support VST3 and would greatly benefit from VST3 support then any new Avid AAX version. ;)



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Last edited by Freddie H on Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby Freddie H » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:18 pm

JMCecil wrote:@Freddie, you attributed a quote to me that I didn't make. ...
.



Sorry, Fixed it! ;)


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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby Freddie H » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:20 pm

JMCecil wrote:

I have some concerns about the features ... How useful is a multi-out preset if you can't save the multi-track configuration with Folders, Groups and driver channels? I'm not saying that can't be done, but it doesn't look like it.

For example, My drum configs typically have between 40 and 90 tracks if you include groups, audio capture tracks and two levels of folders for organization. I also primarily keep FX on the groups and capture tracks. From the look, it seems I can only save the output configuration with the preset. Not the other track types that make the preset usable. From a time standpoint, it solves the least time consuming portion of the setup FOR ME.

The (t)rack looks like a baby step towards a really functional preset system. Here's hoping.



You can still add all tracks to a folder or nested folders, right? :)
I understand what you mean though.

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Re: [Question] Does new "Instrument track 2.0" work with VST

Postby JMCecil » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:27 pm

Another real world example.

Using VSL, lets say I'm going to use a Dimension Strings + Horns + Percussion setup. For me Dimension Strings alone is 16 instrument tracks. Now, I can save each one as a preset, but I have to load them individually. So, no time saving than just popping an instance of Instrument Pro and loading the preset for that instance. Multiply that by each by horns (12 instances) and percussion (9 instances) and it gets time consuming fast. Obviously I can do track exports and various project templates. But each scenario always leaves out some portion of the configuration that you have to track down and fix. There is just no easy way to deal with complex track configurations.

And, it doesn't look like 7.5 solves that. But, it does inch closer I guess.
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