Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

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Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby pondwalden » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:17 am

I have a writing template set up with 5 instances of VEPro (VST3 version) in the VST Rack each with several banks of midi tracks being routed to them (somewhere around 700 midi tracks in all) and each with 8-16 stereo outputs.

The load time for my template under 7.0.6 was about 2.5 minutes.
The load time for the exact template under 7.5 is about 30 minutes

What in the world has changed and how do I fix it? Obviously this is unusable to me currently. Glad I can go back to 7.0.6 for now.
Ideas?
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Soul-Burn » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:05 pm

Is this every time or just the first time?
Since 7.5 is "a different application" with a different configuration directory, it might have to initialize things on the first run, but later it will be faster.
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby MrSmith » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:39 pm

My sub 5-min load time template just took 17 minutes to finish loading
and then crashed before I could finish typing this
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Outsounder » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:05 pm

It is extremely slow. It's often stopping half way through as well when loading random 7.06 projects needing a cntrl+alt+del because it has it stopped responding.

Maybe because of some plugins, don't know yet haven't spent enough time on it.
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Janko Kezar » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:16 pm

Same here it takes quite long loading 7.06 sessions. Also save time are considerably longer here.

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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby spinlud » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:34 pm

Same. 7.5 is really slow..
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby musicbeat » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:45 pm

Loading time's really slow eachtime here, too; but everything else is running really well!
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Shortstop » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:47 pm

Maybe this is an indication that something has changed?
A clean project containing 22 mono audio tracks only, (no plug-ins, automation or anything else), produced a cpr file of about 700 KB when saved in C 6.5 and 7.0.6
and a whopping 4.27 MB when saved in C 7.5. :shock:

Anyone care to compare their cpr's?
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Janko Kezar » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:00 pm

Shortstop wrote:Maybe this is an indication that something has changed?
A clean project containing 22 mono audio tracks only, (no plug-ins, automation or anything else), produced a cpr file of about 700 KB when saved in C 6.5 and 7.0.6
and a whopping 4.27 MB when saved in C 7.5. :shock:

Anyone care to compare their cpr's?



I can confirm- the cpr project size seems quite larger when saving in 7.5.
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Pablo1980 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:37 pm

I am experiencing incredible long times loading my template, what´s going on here??

Please steinberg is there any fix for this?
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby pondwalden » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:43 pm

yeah, this is crazy.

I actually spent several hours last night rebuilding my template by creating the VSTi's inside 7.5 and reattaching the midi channels just to see if there was some type of conversion issue happening, but it still takes over 25 mins to load my palette. Completely unusable.

Pretty frustrated.
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby pondwalden » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:45 pm

closing the same project takes a tremendous amount of time as well.
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Jalcide » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:13 pm

Agreed. Large projects take a long time to load.

My main template takes 8.5 minutes to load. This is on a water-cooled PC with 32gigs of ram and an SSD.

But, to put this in perspective, Studio One loaded an identical project in almost every respect in under a minute, but at the cost of crashing upon load, crashing when unfreezing plugins and general instability. Instability that was directly correlated with project size and memory management.

I realize this is apples-to-apples and guesswork, but I think there may be a correlation. Again, something related to memory allocation and management of the plugin objects as they instantiate.

Cubase might take longer to load, but once it does it's very stable.
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby G-string » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:31 pm

pondwalden wrote:somewhere around 700 midi tracks in all) and each with 8-16 stereo outputs.



how the hell did you ever survive before a daw :roll: with that amount of tracks im surprised you computer doesn't have a heart attack
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby dlpmusic » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:20 pm

This is really a HUGE problem. My template was already CRAZY big....over 1800 tracks that already took about 7 minutes to load. Now with 7.5 it tool 26 MINUTES!!! 7.5 looks great but this is scary problem at the moment. If I get some revisions on cues that I am working on I have to wait almost a half an hour to just load it....never going to happen. 11 minutes was already painful this has got to be fixed.



++++Correction originally I thought it took 11 minutes to open in 7.06......I went back and checked....it was closer to 7 minutes++++
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby pondwalden » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:17 am

G-string wrote:
pondwalden wrote:somewhere around 700 midi tracks in all) and each with 8-16 stereo outputs.



how the hell did you ever survive before a daw :roll: with that amount of tracks im surprised you computer doesn't have a heart attack


Kinda grew up on DAW's :) Remember, the majority of those are MIDI tracks I only have 60 or so audio returns. In the scoring world, my template is actually reasonably small. Computer hovers around 30% cpu most of the time. Not a big deal.

I actually scaled back my template in Cubase 7 from 1200 to about 800 and cut the load time from 5 to about 3 mins. That's still a lot time though.
I know it has something to do with using VEPro in VST3 format. for some reason Cubase has a hard time resolving 100 or so midi tracks per plugin which is kind of odd cause Pro Tools which is incredibly VI unfriendly has no problem loading with big VEPro setups using RTAS.
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby MrSmith » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:10 am

100 MIDI in on Vienna? How many instances do you have connected?
I'm running 16 here and I have to wait 17 minutes to open a 12 instances.
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby dbwalter » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:10 am

I wonder if the issue has anything to do with this:

Cubase users with lots of MIDI ports face the issue that their templates will take ages to load. This is due to a behaviour of Cubase that makes it take a very long time to initialize any VST3 plugin that exceeds 8 MIDI ports. What I have heard is that Cubase somehow initializes all the additional ports and checks their allocations. The first eight MIDI ports are not treated this way. This is why it makes sense to only use 8 MIDI ports per VE Pro instance and in order to be able to have the number of instruments required, use more instances with 8 ports instead of just a few instances with 64 ports.

As far as I can tell, only Cubase shows this behaviour. Users of Studio One (which is also able to use VST3 plugins) can use 64 ports without overly long loading times.



I'm quoting an article from scorecastonline there. It dramatically reduced my template load time but that was back in CB 6.5 days.

This problem sounds like a potentially new one and is very worrying, but I offer this info just in case anyone wasn't aware. Is anyone here using more than 8 ports?
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Steve Helstrip » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:08 pm

Jesus! I have to wait 2 minutes for my template to be up and running using 3 instances of Vienna and I thought that was long...
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Pablo1980 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:15 pm

I am only using instrument tracks, without vienna ensemble, I think I have narrowed my problem to Audiobro LASS in kontakt 5.

The other orchestral libraries seem to load fine. I am having +15min. loading times! 7.0.2 is fine in this regard, something happened in 7.5!!!!
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Svenne » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:41 pm

Pablo1980 wrote:I am only using instrument tracks, without vienna ensemble, I think I have narrowed my problem to Audiobro LASS in kontakt 5.

The other orchestral libraries seem to load fine. I am having +15min. loading times! 7.0.2 is fine in this regard, something happened in 7.5!!!!

What version of Kontakt 5 are you using? Is it 5.3?

Also, I wish you guys would include your equipment in your profiles. You'll increase your chances of getting the proper help. Is this a platform specific problem or not?
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Vinylizor » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:45 pm

Very large .cpr files here too
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby pondwalden » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:08 pm

dbwalter wrote:I wonder if the issue has anything to do with this:

Cubase users with lots of MIDI ports face the issue that their templates will take ages to load. This is due to a behaviour of Cubase that makes it take a very long time to initialize any VST3 plugin that exceeds 8 MIDI ports. What I have heard is that Cubase somehow initializes all the additional ports and checks their allocations. The first eight MIDI ports are not treated this way. This is why it makes sense to only use 8 MIDI ports per VE Pro instance and in order to be able to have the number of instruments required, use more instances with 8 ports instead of just a few instances with 64 ports.

As far as I can tell, only Cubase shows this behaviour. Users of Studio One (which is also able to use VST3 plugins) can use 64 ports without overly long loading times.



I'm quoting an article from scorecastonline there. It dramatically reduced my template load time but that was back in CB 6.5 days.

This problem sounds like a potentially new one and is very worrying, but I offer this info just in case anyone wasn't aware. Is anyone here using more than 8 ports?


This would explain a lot. Yes I'm using 16 midi ports on 5 different VEPro instances. I've always had to wait 3 minutes for my template to load when a similar template in Pro Tools took less than a minute. My same template now takes 20+ minutes in 7.5.

Can Steinberg weigh in on this? Are we only able to use 8 midi ports per VSTi without incurring large load times? And what has changed with 7.5 to make it so long to load?
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby Pablo1980 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:49 pm

I am working with Kontakt 5.3, I think my problem is with LASS ARC, or Stage and Color, feature. When loading the template I have 10 seconds of idle time before of each instance of kontakt (LASS and ARC). Everything is loading from SSD, and in cubase 6.5 it loads in a blink.

I have tried an older version of the template with LASS (without ARC), and the loading times are reduced.
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Re: Cubase 7.5 Excruciating load times

Postby beatpete » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:23 pm

Do you have "decouple" checked in VEP Pro? It makes a HUGE difference to load times. I just created a project with 5 instances of VEP Pro, 600 midi tracks and 225 stereo outputs and it took 24 seconds to load.
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Comp 2:Windows 7 64bit,Celeron G540,16 gb ram, VEPro.
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