2 Monos to Stereo

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2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:09 pm

I am turning some vinyl LP's into files on Cubase (7.5) and Wavelab (Elements 8) in order to de-click them and put them onto CD.

From my turntable I will bring two separate left and right signals of the stereo into 2 mono inputs on an RME Fireface 800, then (presumably) into two tracks on Cubase. Having recorded them, I will open in Wavelab and restore them before burning the stereo file to CD.

Somewhere in there I need to make the two mono tracks into one stereo track. What is the best way to combine the two monos to stereo and at what point?

Thanks for any suggestions.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby thinkingcap » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:34 pm

spyder wrote:Somewhere in there I need to make the two mono tracks into one stereo track. What is the best way to combine the two monos to stereo and at what point?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Since you edit them in wavelab anyway - on recording
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:53 pm

Thanks for the reply. Actually, I would rather get the file into Cubase first as I may want to add another instrument.

In any event, perhaps you could explain further. I may well have an addled brain today, what is the best process to get two mono inputs (actually the left and right channels of a stereo signal) into an RME to be two channels (left and right) of a stereo track in Cubase or Wavelab?
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby NWP » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:31 pm

VST Connections
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby HughH » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:48 pm

spyder wrote:From my turntable I will bring two separate left and right signals of the stereo into 2 mono inputs on an RME Fireface 800, then (presumably) into two tracks on Cubase.


Are there Turntable inputs on the Fireface?

Or do you have a separate RIAA EQ Pre?
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:02 pm

Hugh H : The cables from the turnable are going straight into the RME Fireface. There is no "turntable" input as such on the Fireface. It will be straight into normal mic/line I/O, and I expect I will use the onboard pre-amps.

NWP : I will check VST Connections. I assume from your steer that it is fairly obvious how to combine the inputs - I think bring the two monos in under the Device Port list and make them up as a Stereo Bus. Anyway, I'll take a look tomorrow.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby HughH » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:55 pm

spyder wrote:Hugh H : The cables from the turnable are going straight into the RME Fireface. There is no "turntable" input as such on the Fireface. It will be straight into normal mic/line I/O, and I expect I will use the onboard pre-amps.


Unless I'm missing something, you will need a Phono PreAmp - perhaps a home receiver with a turntable input and a "record out" or any of a number of other gear with the same for it to sound right.

"Records" have a special EQ applied - the RIAA spec - which made it easier to cut full bandwidth music into a vinyl groove. Generally a top emphasis. This EQ needs to be "decoded".

Ther might also be issues with "loading" the cartridge properly (input impedance) . . but the EQ is the main issue.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby BriHar » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:35 am

Why not do the whole operation in Wavelab?
I've done hundreds of vinyl 2CDs using Wavelab (actually a combination of Wavelab and Steinberg Clean which is no longer available).
I'm not certain (because I used a light version of Wavelab) but there may in fact be a plugin RIAA EQ filter included in Wavelab.
...yes I think it can be easily done, just take everything down to Highway 61.

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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:39 pm

I have it sorted now, and yes, I just needed to remember about VST connections! I'll also experiment going straight to Wavelab.

Good advice about RIAA EQ. I am not familiar with that so will check it out.

Many thanks.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby Svenne » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:49 pm

1.) Why are you recording the stereo output from your turntable as a two mono tracks is the first place. Record them as a stereo track directly.

spyder wrote:Hugh H : The cables from the turnable are going straight into the RME Fireface. There is no "turntable" input as such on the Fireface. It will be straight into normal mic/line I/O, and I expect I will use the onboard pre-amps.

2.) Unless your turntable has a dedicated line output (most don't), you needa a RIAA interface. These are available for a couple of euros, the thousands of euros. I've used this one with decent results:
http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750pp.html
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby BriHar » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:09 pm

I just checked, although there is no dedicated RIAA plugin, the included (in both WaveLab and Cubase) Voxengo CurveEQ allows the loading of external EQ curve specifications. Whether an RIAA EQ Spec file is included I cannot say.
...yes I think it can be easily done, just take everything down to Highway 61.

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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:49 pm

Svenne wrote:1.) Why are you recording the stereo output from your turntable as a two mono tracks is the first place. Record them as a stereo track directly.

spyder wrote:Hugh H : The cables from the turnable are going straight into the RME Fireface. There is no "turntable" input as such on the Fireface. It will be straight into normal mic/line I/O, and I expect I will use the onboard pre-amps.

2.) Unless your turntable has a dedicated line output (most don't), you needa a RIAA interface. These are available for a couple of euros, the thousands of euros. I've used this one with decent results:
http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750pp.html


The turntable has two mono outputs (left/right) and I am indeed bringing them into one stereo track.

There are line outs on the turntable, but I do need to find a RIAA plugin.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:52 pm

BriHar wrote:I just checked, although there is no dedicated RIAA plugin, the included (in both WaveLab and Cubase) Voxengo CurveEQ allows the loading of external EQ curve specifications. Whether an RIAA EQ Spec file is included I cannot say.


I see to be able to get the levels right into Cubase, though I guess I still need to EQ issue resolved. Is there a good plugin, or is it simply best to get a Phono preamp with the EQ included?
Last edited by spyder on Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby thinkingcap » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:08 pm

spyder wrote:Anyone know of a good RIAA vst plugin?

You will quite certainly need a Phono preamp a RIAA plugin alone won' t do.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:09 pm

OK, I'll check out the phone preamps. Many thanks everyone.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby thinkingcap » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:11 pm

spyder wrote:OK, I'll check out the phone preamps. Many thanks everyone.

Phono, not phone.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:10 pm

Sorry, yes, phono - my typo!

And I have just ordered one, so hopefully everything will be sorted!
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby playz123 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:35 pm

If you have a home theatre preamp or home 'stereo' receiver that has phono inputs, you could also plug the turntable in to that, then run the audio output signal to your interface.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:16 pm

That's an interesting idea, but I don't have such units. I checked my Hi-Fi and although it does have some phono inputs for tape etc, the handbook specifically states that you cannot connect a turntable because it is not fitted with a phono preamp and thus an external one is required.

For an experiment today I did actually record an album to Cubase through the Fireface, and although the levels were fine the recording has distortion. Hopefully that is why I need the phono preamp!
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby Svenne » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:46 pm

Don't get phono plugs mixed up with phono inputs. If you want to delve a bit deeper into the subject, I sugest you take a peek here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:27 pm

Good point Svenne. I have indeed been reading up on RIAA EQ (including the Wiki page you note) since it was raised in this thread. Quite an interesting subject, and one which I had not come across before.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby BriHar » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:01 pm

I concur, the best way to go is with a dedicated Phono preamp. I have one turntable with this built in (but I don't use it) I have 2 discreet phono preamps, one of which, a terratec is not bad. I, however prefer to use the one built into my Soundcraft mixer, as it also has built-in DI for guitars - just makes my input patching easier, and also services as a headphone distributer for the artist cues.
Anyway, this might be something to look into - a small mixer such as used by DJs will usually have Phono Preamps built in, plus you have the advantage of having a HW premixer should you ever need one.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:08 pm

Thanks. I have just bought a phono preamp with inbuilt RIAA EQ, so I will give that a tryout.
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Re: 2 Monos to Stereo

Postby spyder » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:39 pm

So I have now recorded my albums using the phono preamp with RIAA EQ and I am pleased to say I have a superb result! HughH, you were spot on in raising the importance of EQ early on, it makes all the difference, and as mentioned, I did not even know about the issue. So thanks again to all, it just shows the value of this forum!
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