Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby lukasbrooklyn » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:26 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:I can see this from SB's (or any software dev's) side.

Years ago it was revolutionary to be able to pay $800 to get a software version of what previously cost say, $20,000 – the mixing desk, tape maichines etc., plus the rental or purchase the space to put it in.

Now, in 2014 many older versions of Cubase are complete enough for many users, so updating is not a necessity. Additionally, the way the SB licenses work we can buy and sell our licenses without restriction so a new user can, theoritically, buy a copy of Cubase 5 or 6 and be in business with a rather complete feature set, and SB gets nothing from that sale (and, of course, does not have to provide support.)

I think the model they should adopt (though the pricing would be different) is the one used by Figure 53, who make Qlab: http://figure53.com/qlab/buy/
Image
This can create new revenue, and its implementation would have the side effect of offering an immediate, automated solution the lost dongle emergency. (you could just rent Cubase/Nuendo for a period of time if you could not reach tech support, like on Friday night, 30 minutes before the downbeat of a 3 day run)

Software manufacturers are trying to find a way to make more money without alienating their customers. I thnk they want to test the waters to see how users would react to the idea, and they are getting an earfull from people who already own licenses. People who do not yet own a license would have a very different perspective.


btw image line provide lifetime free updates once you buy their product. they claim to 'think to' have the largest user base on the market (that is what i read in a post by their dev anyway).
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:32 pm

And they say on the website
Sometimes when we develop something new, like a software synthesizer or other module, we investigate whether to build it into the main application and include it free, or offer it as an optional add-on purchase.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby curteye » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:25 am

SteveInChicago wrote:And they say on the website
Sometimes when we develop something new, like a software synthesizer or other module, we investigate whether to build it into the main application and include it free, or offer it as an optional add-on purchase.


And this:
found in a Steinberg C7 read me file:
“Developing software is an ongoing process that perpetually gets closer to perfection without ever achieving it”
.

It is the 'ongoing' part that helps me to finally realize that I am officially 'hooked on Cubase';
whatever the current sales model. :) :) :)
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby Elektrobolt » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:16 am

What a load of crap this whole thing is...

What is the difference if I pay $250 every two years, versus whatever this comes out to be per day? The only real difference is that the subscription model increases the risk of us, the customers, getting screwed. Why? Well, how else would they make more money? The only way to make more money is to charge me more for Cubase. That's it. It'll become a chase game to get us to buy into more "features" for a few pennies, until we pay more for the entire package, that used to be $250 every two years (an approximation, but you get the point).

On top of that, I might not be able to continue using an older version of Cubase, depending on "the model". And if I can, them will we get bugs fixed. All that this ultimately result in, is a higher cost for us, for less features. Because this will be extra, that will be extra, and so on, maybe not a very high cost, but in comparison to what we get now, it will be more. Also, since it appear that quite a few people have problems with these upgrades, imagine what will happen when various options require other options or simple won't work because an option is non-existent.

My guess is that a whole lot less non-professional customers will quit using Steinberg and go elsewhere. Then it'll get even more expensive, in order to make up the difference.

Lease and subscription are money making routines that ultimately ends up loosing to better alternatives.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby knuckle47 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:12 am

One of the nice things in my music life has been that the guitar I bought in 1969 is still ... my guitar. As I get very close to retirement and incomes and costs erode my spendable options over the next 20 years ( I hope) I can see things in my current life that must be trimmed back and curtailed if there is to be any form of lifestyle continuity. Recurring monthly charges as they are right now are a developing burden to keep on going or increasing.

For me, a big deal breaker. I still have Cakewalk on 3.5" floppies and a few 10" reels
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby jaslan » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:22 pm

It is hard to talk about the different models without specifics. For example, if the subscription price was low enough and guaranteed not to increase for the life cycle of that version, I might consider it. I really need to know ALL THE DETAILS before I could make a decision. I will say, however, that, as a hobby user, the subscription price would have to be low to a point that Steinberg probably couldn't justify letting it go for that price.

So, bottom line, I don't think SB could offer a subscription price low enough to get me interested.

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby Woodcrest Studio » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:06 pm

I am more than prepared to "freeze" and no longer move forward if a subscription-based license happens.

Arguments can be made to how the license is now a virtual subscription, but it is not. My Steinberg licenses, if I bailed right now, will still be able to used right now till the day I die without having to fork over another cent.
My biggest gripe about a subscription:

#1: I refuse to be on the cutting edge due to reliability.
#2: I want to retain the licenses I pay for.

I am skipping Cubase 7 all together. Why should I pay for it or any other version when I will never use it?

I give the community a lot of kudos for adopting new releases and reporting all the problems. That is awesome, their choice, their money and to do what they want to do with it. It is not for me though I used to be that way.

I am a very easy-going guy and apologies if I seem negative. I am just putting my foot down on this. I will not follow Steinberg into a subscription-based licensing model. Cubase 6.5 and I can make a damn good record, do VO, ADR and sound design like the 24-track tape machine and rack gear I used for a decade. 6.5, it may be you and me for the long-haul.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby Rotund » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:29 am

I would simply move on to something else if this happens.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby hjwinge » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:20 am

If the next cubase came with a subscription model only, i would change to a diffrent DAW first thing the day i would have to upgrade. I want to, at least feel that i own the software i bought, whatever the license agreement says. And i want it to work whenever i choose to use it.

Ive recorded 1000s of songs in various versons of cubase since the days of atari and i could anyday load up one of the old macs and use my old cubase software that i bought and own.

I generally dont like the subscription models in any software, as life is more and more dependent on PCs, i think its a dangerous way we are going when we dont own the software we need to use everyday for regular tasks.

I hope steinberg is only asking our opinion, but not considering a subscription model for cubase.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby blackcat » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:58 am

Woodcrest Studio wrote:Has anyone witnessed the adaption of adobe's model? How has the adobe community of users felt about it?


Yes, from reading the forums & various blogs, it looks like Adobe have lost a lot of users (both hobbyist & professionals, including larger companies & institutional users) since they went cloud-only. A lot of people are just sticking with CS6. There's a huge complaint thread on their forum that has been active since they made the change last spring (I can't find it right now - it's hard to find anything more than a few days old on there since they introduced infinite scrolling. I dislike infinite scroll almost as much as forced subscriptions :lol: ).

Of course some people do like the Cloud. The complaints are more about the lack of perpetual licenses, rather than subscriptions per se. Most users just want to be able to choose the model that works best for them. Although there are also a lot of complaints from cloud users about Adobe's poor service when things go wrong.

This sums up some of the issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Syst ... tive_Cloud

I really hope Steinberg are aware of the downsides of subscription software from a user's POV. I can see how it's more beneficial for developers & software companies, but not if customers end up deserting them...
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby iBM » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:38 pm

NorthWood MediaWorks wrote:I would not support a subscription model. Total deal breaker here.

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby jpgtr » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:07 pm

My studio is now 100% Adobe free thanks in part to their subscription model.

If Steinberg goes subscription... I won't hesitate one moment to dump Cubase. The last thing folks in the recording/music industry need is another monthly payment...

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby SteveInChicago » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:33 pm

Wow. A lot of enthusiastic anger from one question on a 15 question survey. But what do you really think? ;)
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby jpgtr » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:45 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:Wow. A lot of enthusiastic anger from one question on a 15 question survey. But what do you really think? ;)


I think the question IS in there, so clearly the subscription model is a consideration.

I think I do care about this DAW, hence the strong feedback. The alternative is to sit back like a good fanboy /patsy and simply let Steinberg figure things out by product sales alone. But it's a tough market in the DAW business with lots of alternatives for customers to chose from and by then it would be too late. If you want Cubase to thrive and prosper in the long run, you need to take off the blinders once in a while and let them know what you think and what you want (or don't want) from their product.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby SteveInChicago » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:57 pm

jpgtr wrote:
SteveInChicago wrote:Wow. A lot of enthusiastic anger from one question on a 15 question survey. But what do you really think? ;)


I think the question IS in there, so clearly the subscription model is a consideration.

I think I do care about this DAW, hence the strong feedback. The alternative is to sit back like a good fanboy /patsy and simply let Steinberg figure things out by product sales alone. But it's a tough market in the DAW business with lots of alternatives for customers to chose from and by then it would be too late. If you want Cubase to thrive and prosper in the long run, you need to take off the blinders once in a while and let them know what you think and what you want (or don't want) from their product.


It's probably enough just to fill out the survey. But emotional posts have their place too, I suppose.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby knuckle47 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:33 pm

I went over the 3 computers and ipads in our house to see if there are other software and app uses that are based in any proposed model as mentioned above and all are PC based computers except 1 which is a MacBook Pro. The only one I could find is on the Mac and it was Adobe.... However, it remains inactive since the change over. My daughter used it for her work but they seem to have moved onto something else in their graphic department.

I remember she paid over $1100.00 at one time a few yrs. back... big waste 'o money
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby alexis » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:03 pm

I suspect if one DAW company does the rent-a-DAW subscription model, they all will be doing the same thing.

If the negative sentiments expressed on this board reflect the community as a whole, I see a golden opportunity for hard disc recorder manufacturers to step in and make a killing by adding a few things like Melodyne, Comp Tools, and even plug-ins (like the ones on the back of the old Yamaha Motif Classic).

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby Tommy-boy » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:33 am

A subscription based DAW is the worst idea ever.

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby curteye » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:35 am

alexis wrote:I suspect if one DAW company does the rent-a-DAW subscription model, they all will be doing the same thing.!


Word!

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby matjones » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:23 pm

This is something i've said is going to happen for 5 or 6 years or so..... unfortunately it's inevitable..... i do not like it one little bit personally for various reasons..............

NOT happy with this direction at all!!
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby Bane » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:35 am

If one cannot afford a DAW, there are tons of pro audio dealers out there allowing you to make payments on it without interest. This new scheme wouldn't benefit anybody but Steinberg, and maybe not even them once the better half of their userbase dropped them.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby curteye » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:50 am

Bane wrote:once the better half of their userbase dropped them.


Then they would just raise the price to the other half that will stay and will pay
and 'bob's yer uncle'.

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Postby Marsman » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:06 pm

They could offer an **optional** subcription model, but I would still like to buyout my software.

Sure they could "rent" a Cubase license (that is what a subscription is) for a month, three months or year, but I´m not sure who would actually use that option..
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