7.0.7 late update

Aha! My Steiny-sense was tingling, and it never lets me down.

Steiny-sense. :laughing: excellent.

+1
{‘-’}

Excellent!! Made my night! :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:
Sending much Aloha and mahalo to you.
{‘-’}

So, let me see if I understand this:

We users keep asking DAW Manufacturers for more features in a daily basis. And, since the “basic” features are already there, we ask for really complex new functions. Considering editing a not-so-pro choir section, and think what can be done today that was IMPOSSIBLE just few years back (not even talking analog tape here). Compare C5 and C7 in terms of functionality, for instance…

We also expected all those new functions, features, upgrades and updates to come as cheap as possible, preferably for free, because we already paid something like 500 bucks, right?. The current DAW used to cost double as much few year ago, but, who cares? It is not our problem, it is a manufacturer problem. This is the user POV.

Now, let’s check for the manufacturers POV: users wants really complex modifications (even if they won’t use them / need them in the near future), for free, developed with the same development team (manufacturers can’t afford to growth the team, since users paid for the latest SW probably half they paid 10 years ago), and FAST. Manufacturers also has to deal with different computer environment (Mac OS X, several Windows versions, and hundreds of internal HW possibilities, plus hundreds of digital interfaces, in at least two different kind of busses). Oh, and please don’t forget the support team, which should be available for free 24 hs / 365 days a year, in 5 or 6 different languages, and considering amateur users, as well as professional producers.

AGAIN, FOR FREE.

I don’t know you guys, but I re-paid all the money I paid to Steinberg yearly with just one project (my Customers paid more than 50 euros for any kind of recording/mixing/mastering services, probably I am too expensive). And all of my amateurs friends, they know Cubase Elements or Artist is cheaper than two Nintendo / Playstation games, so they don’t complain either.

Am I wrong?

PLEASE, LETS GIVE THEM A BREAK. If we want BETTER products every year, somebody has to think about it, develop it, test it, sell it, distributing it, document it, support it and make money out of it. This is the only possible equation. And if we want it FASTER, well, think on spending more money over the equation, because that is what it takes.

Just my opinion. I am a happy user anyway.

Regards,
Martin

You are right.

Actually all I ask for are bug fixes. :smiley:

@Martinoto

Some people get by with a little understanding / Some people get by with a whole lot more

I agree with all Martinoto said. Also, I guess it´s a bit of a dilemma to have a divided customer base, the “amateur” and the “pro” crowd.

As someone who makes his living from using DAW´s I have no problem to pay good money, maybe a annual /monthly fee for having a 100% rock solid product, which is doable if the cash inflow is sufficent. However, I can totally get that the “amateur” crowd (who can not write off their DAW spendings) is not so keen on spending lot´s of their hard earned cash for having bugfixes etc.

It´s a delicate balance act I guess.

Your statement is hypothetical.

Since we don’t have a subscription model yet, $teinberg should provide us with bug free products in the end of each release circle (i.e. work as advertised) without additional costs like point releases or whatever. What they do now is not only unethical but barely legal too. I realy hope that lawsuits will start coming their way soon.

They does, and that’s the point. A subscription model would be the expensive solution I’ve referred at in my previous post, and I am not saying it would be the best solution. Many SW developers have implemented a subscription service which didn’t work either. The problem is how fast we would like to see the fixes. Since the fixes came for free (“work as advertised”), I honestly believe Steinberg does well enough, but anybody could disagree. If the manufacturer wants me to pay for the service, I don’t think any payable fee will be fast enough for us. In fact, how can any developer guarantee any given fix time to fix some bug they don’t know it exists in the first place? And if I have to pay for it, I will definitely ask for some response time guarantee.

We can discuss if every new version should be tested better before delivery, and I can agree in some extent. It also costs A LOT (if you have a friend who works as a SW Tester, ask her/him), and it obviously will be added to the final price.

At the end, it is all about balance between a well tested product, a better version every year, and a support team that delivers. I my honest opinion, I think Steinberg does well regarding that balance. I got an state-of-the-art product, which my business could depend on, at a fair price, and with an acceptable (for me, at least) response time from Customer Support. None of the bugs that came from all my previous versions of Cubase was fatal. Even so, I always keep the previous version at my desktop, just in case, and never had to use it since C5. Trust me, I use Cubase for living.

Regards,
Martin

Hi Martinoto.

You said “We users keep asking DAW Manufacturers for more features on a daily basis.”
These were the good days. Now we are asking bug fixes on a daily basis - fixes that they don’t deliver. V7 Mixer was redesigned with each patch release (this to me is an alpha/beta stage software at best) and suddenly the go like “we’ll release one final patch” and if you want more fixes pay fifty more euros and you can have 4 or 5 more patches that fix things (like what happened with 6.07 & 6.5.5.) Feel free to believe what you want but this is something totally not cool in my book either for professionals, amateurs or whatever kind of users.

unsubscribed.

The Freeze doesn’t work properly on project with big latency: it shifts the tracks in time putting out of sync.

WORD! BIG TIME!!

Perhaps the forum should be segregated between users who use the product to make a living
and those who use the product to not make a living.

However in that scenario one side would probably be very sparely populated when compared to
the other side.

Ah! back to big business. You just can’t get around that fact.
{‘-’}

Indeed I dont mind waiting for the bug fixes. But it’s absolutely ridiculous that this is the last “free” update for version 7. Now I need to PAY to get these major FLAWS fixed!

(wonder how long it will take before this thread or my post will “dissapear”?

We are discussing since last year about Cubugs versions of 7, first release was obviously a Alfa and maybe beta version of the new platform. Was a dramatic improvement between 32bit and 64bit technology, Steney changed the programmers and project management, we don’t know the reasons, probably money as always. I can understand the stress and the problems to put hands on a complicate software programmed by others before. But the considerations should be just some.

1 Steinberg sell audio software
2 Users buy audio software for play, for job, for fun, etc

If you play for fun, could be ok and you can wait until the DAW is fully or partially fully working until the next release, who use the DAW for job means they pay the DAW for their job, for living because that software makes easy job too. Those people don’t want a unstable beta version, yes they could pay 50 or more for fixing of course is not a big expenses… yes I can do that, but I need the new software NOW because my job depends from that.
Someone can say “don’t buy the new version”, “just stay on Cubase 6.5.5”, yes no problem too. But this is MY FIX not a Steinberg fix. They sell a wonderful machine, with wonderful features than I would like to use for my job immediately not after 2 years. I want remember to all Cubase 6.5.5. is not fully fixed yet if we refer to the software specifics.

Its same for any kind of things in the life, if you buy a guitar you’ll aspect the Guitar plays tuned, if you want a Piano you’ll aspect the piano does not have broken key, same for audio board, for the computer system etc. It’s all part of a big complex studio processing. And Cubase is a Flagship product of honored software house like steinberg.

Beta testing is a part of the programming structure, is the most important part, in the past Cubase users was like a Nuendo Beta tester, now we are all beta testers for Cubase and Nuendo for free. Nuendo users are less and less than before, especially on Mac their are disappeard, I’ve sold my Nuendo Licence 2 years ago.

This is not normal, because this brings a lot of informations to the programmers of course, but will takes longer to fix all the bugs. Ask money for fixing the bugs is offensive for all user already payed for the DAW. I don’t care if the others do the same, this is not serious and honest especially for musician than use Cubase for create and sell their music. Cubase 7.0.7 is not complete bugs free but Steinberg announced this is the late update. And my “Steiny sense” suggest me we are beta testing 7.0.7 to make 7.5.10 more stable next month. So peoples payed to upgrade from 6.5 to 7 then beta testing until 7.0.7 for more than 1 year to pay again for a more stable but not bugs free 7.5.10. I think we will see 7.5.12 or 13 before Cubase 8, but in the meantime…

Is not a money problem Steinberg! it’s about respect the job we do for living the job we do for you reporting bugs.
If you are not ready to sell the new DAW don’t do it, or take a chance to stop producing DAW and concentrate all the energies under iOS, you will make more money, we will move to Logic and everyones happy.

I can only speak for myself, but…NO! I haven’t been asking for more features. I don’t think I’m alone either. Sometimes something very logical that follows Cubase functionality comes along like this.

But more features, absolutely not.

For many years I have been asking they FIX what they already have. I think 6.5 got the closest it’s ever been. And now I’m asking not only they fix the obvious issues in 7.5, but fix the problems and improve workflow that was caused by the new mix console.

  1. Key commands/ mixer focus issues/ navigation issues. (applies only to users who wish to use key commands)
    Steinberg Forums
  2. Always On Top (a few different problems)
  3. Mixer GUI problems sizing recall etc

Part of the problem with the above 3 is Steinberg has given the user various ways to work, and we all work differently. First you get the Always On Top option. Secondly you get the mixer full screen option. Then you get options of using mixers 1,2, and 3 (was mixer 1 ever fixed?) and the options of linking them plus linking them with the project window, then add in hiding project page tracks, creating zones and its a mess! And finally some of us use 4 screens, others use a jumbo tron, yet probably the majority still just use one screen with a heck of a lot of clicking around. I cant wait until Cubase for the i-phone is released. :mrgreen:

I can’t help but wonder if the “everything works great no crashes” comments come from users not utilizing a lot of the Cubase multiple mixer features or 1-screen users who use a mouse and don’t care about key commands?

In certain ways Cubase has been piece-mealed together over many years starting since Cubase SX or Cubase5 and it’s really showing.

  1. FIX a bunch of smaller issues that seem to have been abandoned for years. The ones I’m thinking of have been turned in, but when I follow up I get the impression they won’t be fixed, or its very low priority.

There are certainly very cool things Steinberg has added, but often those cool features tend to add more problems to the long fix list. Core functions, and workflow improvements tend to get ignored. Instead they add new features like track pictures. Somewhere I just read where someone is having a problem with the sizing of a pdf for track pictures. :laughing:

Disclaimer: IMO Cubase is still the best compared to the competition. (But I will abandon Cubase in a second when I find a developer that prioritizes core functions and workflow, yet maintains a sane but working feature set.)

Subjective comment.

An example is how Edit Active Part wasn’t “working as expected” for the entire time up until 7.0.7 but is now fixed.

Just because SB doesn’t prioritize things to one users taste over anothers doesn’t mean they don’t look after “core functions”.

EDIT: Spoke to soon Edit active part reverts to the C7 way once prefs are removed.

We users keep asking DAW Manufacturers for more features in a daily basis

new features is really not the priority and the subject for me and i understand devlopement need time and i think cubase is the most advanced soft in terms of tools i need. PT has less functions (specially concidering the new transformer in cubase 7.5) but at least it’ns not buged.

i just want bug fix on these tools ! period (note 7.0.7 is still buged on windows display, timecode etc… for the week i used it)
is that to much to ask for when you paid >500$ ?
maybe i’m just that old generation and you guys are used to play with unfinished buged videogames on smartphones that have programed life duration.