Add Space Between MIDI Notes

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Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby suntower » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:09 am

Is there are way to select a line of MIDI notes and add some 'space' between each note?

Eg. I have a melody of 10 notes that are all 1/8ths and perfectly quantized. What I want to do is select them and then add 20PPQ of 'space' between the start time of each note. So they are now not on the beat... they've increased in 'distance' from one another. And every time I run this command they get further and further (or is it farther?) apart from one another.

Like the ever-expanding galaxy. :D

I'm not talking about moving them all 'forward' or 'backwards'.

I couldn't figure it out with LE.

TIA,

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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby curteye » Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:54 pm

Aloha s,

Interesting.

Using the Logical Editor I was thinking about a way to do this but not with spaces.
My thought was to use actual MIDI events (notes) whose velocities are 0. So the end effect is that of silence.

It is almost 4am here now I'll sleep on it and give it some more thought tomorrow.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby Philskeys » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:34 pm

This might work -
Use Arpache sx midi insert and use the Sequence tab. Drag in your melody and click "ppq" on the "step size" line. Then this parameter can be automated with a quick control and can get the effect I think you want.
Let me know if that works, it sounds like an interesting concept you have going.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:45 pm

For the guy whose avatar is my favorite character from my favorite movie, anything. ;)

This LE + macro moves all notes that are to the right of the cursor later by a given amount, which grows each time you invoke the macro. For an 8 note phrase you would invoke it 7 times.

    It requires that
  • the first note has the same start position as the containing part, for the LE preset to calculate a sensible result
  • it be be performed in the Key Editor
  • the part contains only the notes you want to edit
  • nothing is selected and the cursor
Create LE preset "multiply position":
Filter: Type is Equal to Note
Action: Position: Multiply by 1.x (where x is the factor by which you want the second event to move)

Create macro:
Image

edit: and what post would be complete without a licecap ani? :lol:
Image
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:05 pm

Hm... I'm not sure now that I got what you meant- I understood increasing the distance between each note by a progressively larger amount. if you just want to put the same distance between each note, change the multiply action to an Add action. I think none of the preconditions apply in that case too, but I didn't test it.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby Weasel » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:29 pm

What I want to do is select them and then add 20PPQ of 'space' between the start time of each note. So they are now not on the beat... they've increased in 'distance' from one another.

Click Me
I think this Logical Editor preset will do exactly what you ask. The "how much" value can be easily edited and the preset can be assigned to a KeyCommand
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:45 pm

Weasel I think you may be right...
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby suntower » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:52 pm

Wow. It's kinda mesmerising. :D

I very much appreciate your taking the time. It's getting there but would need to be much less constrained for me to actually -use-. I would need it to work on a selection of notes within an event regardless of whether there are other notes or not. But this is a VERY good tip and maybe improved upon... or maybe there are lots of other uses. THANKS.

FWIW: I was hoping to just 'grab' a bunch of notes and have them s p r e a d o u t

One application: I do these 'note clusters' where say 10 voices need to have their start slightly randomised so they don't all hit on the beat together. You hear this a lot in 20th century music with voices & winds. You want to keep 'the cloud' going, but people need to breathe so you spread out the entrances.

---JC

PS: I just googled 'reading glasses' to make fun of my poor eyesight... and Harry Tuttle came up, but I now realise that there's a lot more layers to this. :D
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:06 pm

So should it be readable in sheet music? Any other examples?
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby suntower » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:02 pm

Weasel wrote:
What I want to do is select them and then add 20PPQ of 'space' between the start time of each note. So they are now not on the beat... they've increased in 'distance' from one another.

Click Me
I think this Logical Editor preset will do exactly what you ask. The "how much" value can be easily edited and the preset can be assigned to a KeyCommand


Big thanks for doing that.

However the scipt makes the notes shorter. I want them to be further apart, but the same length. Maybe the script got lost in translation?


Here's what I want. I FIGURED OUT LICECAP! :)

spreadout.gif
(1.58 MiB) Not downloaded yet


NB. I always get -sincerely- surprised with stuff like this. I was fully expecting that this was something already possible.. and also that what I was after was pretty self-explanatory. It was a pretty common composition technique when I was in school... back in 1375 of course, but still. :D I appreciate all the efforts... had no idea it would be so fiddly.

Steve, if yer not just taking this *quiz*... there are tons of 'applications' for this kinda thing. I do this all the time to add a slight amount of realism to all kinds of material. Sometimes it would be good to be able to -decrease- the space between notes. And if possible, this would be great to be able to do with a selection of audio events... changing the space between a group of percussive hits.

---JC
Last edited by suntower on Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby Philskeys » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:18 pm

JC, now I'm just curious,
did you look into my suggestion regarding Arpache sx? I tried it here, and it did exactly what you describe.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby Weasel » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:23 pm

However the script makes the notes shorter. I want them to be further apart, but the same length.

Well yes. If the notes are moved backwards by some amount, they will bump into the notes behind them...unless the lengths are shortened by the same amount as the time shift. What you suggest (and I could be misinterpreting this) is that this would require slowing the tempo surrounding those notes to open up enough time to keep the note lengths the same but not bump into the notes behind them.

I mean you want to create a gap and not have them overlap...did I get that right? The space has to come from somewhere. There's only one person on this forum who might be able to figure out what I've described above: Vic France. This sorta thing is above my payscale.

As to this:
I do these 'note clusters' where say 10 voices need to have their start slightly randomised so they don't all hit on the beat together

Download this to do this:

Image

You have to create a Macro as shown here to pull this off.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby suntower » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:28 pm

You have an F19? Where do =I= get an F19?
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby Weasel » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:35 pm

*grumble* posts crossing in the night.

Suntower: I just looked at your GIF. If you take the first LEpreset I posted and remove the first Action Target, it'll do exactly that (the ppq value entered) with a KeyCommand to any selected notes. The lengths wont change but the starting position will.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby Weasel » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:37 pm

You have an F19? Where do =I= get an F19?

One of the percs of owning a Mac. Use whatever is available/free.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby Weasel » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:52 pm

I do these 'note clusters' where say 10 voices need to have their start slightly randomised so they don't all hit on the beat together.
Another MIFDIC approach is the Trim Tool to pull this off. Not random but in a lot of cases it will sound right.
Image
Sorry...I don't know what the PC equivalent of the Option key is.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:57 pm

suntower wrote:I FIGURED OUT LICECAP
Congratulations!

Weasel has the solutions for the note clusters...

As far as the expanding universe, here is a much simpler way that works without limitations.

Select the notes in question
Invoke "Locate Selection"
Invoke this LE preset:
Code: Select all
LE:
Filter:
Type-Note
Property=Selected

Action:
Position Multiply by 1.1


then invoke "Move to Cursor"

And heeeeere's the licecap:
Image
Attachments
exUni2.xml.zip
The LE Preset
(927 Bytes) Downloaded 37 times
Last edited by SteveInChicago on Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:07 pm

Weasel wrote:*grumble* posts crossing in the night.

Suntower: I just looked at your GIF. If you take the first LEpreset I posted and remove the first Action Target, it'll do exactly that (the ppq value entered) with a KeyCommand to any selected notes. The lengths wont change but the starting position will.

Hm, when I tried that it moved all events by the given amount, whereas they all need to be moved by increasing amounts relative to where they started. That's why I used 'multiply'. But then i needlessly complicated things since I thought the space between notes needed to progressively increase.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby Weasel » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:15 pm

Hm, when I tried that it moved all events by the given amount, whereas they all need to be moved by increasing amounts relative to where they started.
I wasn't sure if the notes needed to maintain their relative positions or not from Suntower's initial description. Short attention span on my part, I guess.
Both LE's do the same basic primary function (shift the note starts back) but treat the spacing differently. Two useful tools for two different results, I'd say.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:16 pm

Weasel wrote:Two useful tools for two different results, I'd say.
Yes indeed.
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby curteye » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:18 am

You guys are amazing. And clever.

But what is this thang gonna 'sound' like? :) :)

and as Steve posted:
So should it be readable in sheet music?

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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby suntower » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:40 am

Very nice. Thanks to both Steve and Weasel. If I were the king of the forest, I'd want some way to specify the multiplier... similar to the current MIDI functions like 'Velocity', but I can certainly use a small value and repeat as needed.

AFA 'how does it sound'? It sounds like notes. What else would one expect? :D But typical 'classical' examples might be found in the soundtracks to "there will be blood" (Jonny Greenwood's 'Superhet') or '2001'... bits by Pendercki, Ligeti, etc. Lots of Wagner... TONS of electronic music from the 60's.

Maybe you have a 'chord' that you want to sustain for a long time and people need to breathe so you have them sneak in/out specifically -not- on the beat so it sounds homogeneous. Or maybe you want percussion that sounds random... like Planet Of The Apes. This is an easy way to try different timings. Or maybe you have a rhythm-part that is simply too perfect. You don't want to move everything in one direction, you want to add some controllable 'slop' and hear how certain notes sound if they were moved a skosh ahead/behind the beat all in one go.

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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby curteye » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:41 am

Nice Thread
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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby suntower » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:48 am

Do you have a keyboard or some external keypad with an F19 or is this a 'virtual' deal? Obviously I don't get out enough... I just never considered there might be F keys beyond 12.

TIA,

---JC

Weasel wrote:
You have an F19? Where do =I= get an F19?

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Re: Add Space Between MIDI Notes

Postby Weasel » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:57 am

Do you have a keyboard or some external keypad with an F19...

I have 3 Macs, two towers and one iMac. All three came with keyboards that extend the F keys out to 19. 13-15 are over the U/D/L/R arrow keys while 16-19 continue across above the numerical keypad area. Standard Apple issue. They come in handy.
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