UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby Headlands » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:12 pm

CubeDAW wrote:You guys have alzheimer's? I don't get it. The mixer is not that complicated.


I hope you're joking? This has not a single thing to do with how complicated or un-complicated the mixer is. It's a very, very simple concept that most other DAWs have, for a very good reason.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby doktari » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:28 am

+1
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby zibelnik » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:30 pm

I understand undo for mix as special undo key comand separate from undo we have now. Also history for mix should have own table.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby Barral39 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:18 pm

+1
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby Cut-a-Corner » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:00 pm

+1
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby Tanant » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:33 am

+1
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby ALSTUDIOS » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:36 am

+1
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby CubeDAW » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:26 pm

I wonder why some people are accidentally making changes to the mixer while other people (like me) never do.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby Cut-a-Corner » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:00 pm

especially the new mixer has to be used with the scrolling bar.
many people use the mouse wheel for that.
it often happens that you accidentially
have the cursor over a fader or knob while trying to scroll.
no problem in most cases but sometimes annoying because something
isn't right but you don't immediatly hear were you turned the wrong knob.

the other thing: you accidentially change an insert. no problem if its just an eq.
but i becomes a real problem if you use someting complicated like a huge rack built with guitar rig, fx rack with reaktor or simply something like a complex template for fabfilter volcano / timeless.

especially for edm guys it is a problem if they made a complex automation and have to go back to scratch if they didn't save while working half an hour to create that "big riser" before the "drop". it is easy to click and accidentially choose another plugin.

this is not a first person shooter were you loose credits when accidentially hitting a wrong target.
this is professional music production software. Undo is absolutely necessary.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby Freddie H » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:56 pm

+1

I personal wouldn't need to use this feature much.. but it can be very handy to have if you really f- something up during mixing.
Cubase and Nuendo have 10. 000 of other advance features + "anything else" that all other DAWS don't have ...so why should we be limit on this easy one.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby Headlands » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:46 am

CubeDAW wrote:I wonder why some people are accidentally making changes to the mixer while other people (like me) never do.


Again: You can't be serious with a post like this? Come on, man. ALL of the A List music and post mixers that I've had the chance to work with make mistakes or want to undo something they've done in the mixer, all of the time. If you've never, ever wanted to undo something and/or made a mistake in the mixer area, then I don't know what to tell you. You are just too good for these forums, and are better than some of the biggest A List mixers.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby lowfreak » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:43 pm

@CubeDAW: People don't make changes accidentally. It wouldn't be an accident then, right? And also, this is the feature request forum. It's not the "Reply if you don't like someone elses feature request forum if you cannot comprehend why they are asking for it", especially if you're skill set has not gotten you to the point of realization of this more than obvious FLAW in the graphical design of CUBASE, and also if that wasn't enough, this is probably the most asked for feature requests, cause it PLAIN *quiz* PEOPLE THE HELL OFF that you've been busting your god damn ass mixing something in Pubase and all of the sudden, you scroll up, and you just waisted all of your time, ... time that Cubase should pay us back for. Why the hell did they create this sub-forum, so they can say ."oh we listen to our customers" ,... yeah,.. they sure do, eh ?!?!
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby Headlands » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:20 pm

Cut-a-Corner wrote:especially the new mixer has to be used with the scrolling bar.
many people use the mouse wheel for that.
it often happens that you accidentially
have the cursor over a fader or knob while trying to scroll.
no problem in most cases but sometimes annoying because something
isn't right but you don't immediatly hear were you turned the wrong knob.

the other thing: you accidentially change an insert. no problem if its just an eq.
but i becomes a real problem if you use someting complicated like a huge rack built with guitar rig, fx rack with reaktor or simply something like a complex template for fabfilter volcano / timeless.

especially for edm guys it is a problem if they made a complex automation and have to go back to scratch if they didn't save while working half an hour to create that "big riser" before the "drop". it is easy to click and accidentially choose another plugin.

this is not a first person shooter were you loose credits when accidentially hitting a wrong target.
this is professional music production software. Undo is absolutely necessary.



Very well-stated. Thanks!
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby CubeDAW » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:30 pm

Headlands wrote:
CubeDAW wrote:I wonder why some people are accidentally making changes to the mixer while other people (like me) never do.


Again: You can't be serious with a post like this? Come on, man. ALL of the A List music and post mixers that I've had the chance to work with make mistakes or want to undo something they've done in the mixer, all of the time. If you've never, ever wanted to undo something and/or made a mistake in the mixer area, then I don't know what to tell you. You are just too good for these forums, and are better than some of the biggest A List mixers.



I don't accidentally change it so it is very easy to undo what I did. I can remember what I did. I don't understand why this is so difficult. This is why they didn't put undo in the mixer. It doesn't seem very necessary to some people obviously. It would actually be hinderance to me because I'm used to undo not affecting the mixer. It would be okay I guess if it was *only* active while the mixer window is active. Better yet if mixer undo would be permanently switched off in the preferences by default. Only people who dislike no undo in the mixer bother to complain about it here. People who are happy with it the way it is are silent. I imagine they will be upset if they change it. Some of us are used to it for many years.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby ErikG » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:54 am

If you use automation, undo works just fine for the mixer. And it has been that way since forever. Just saying.

Not that I would really mind a mixer undo function, it's just that I haver never needed it as all my parameters are automated always.
Makes it easy to fix those pesky mistakes or complex alternatives...
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby HughH » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:52 pm

The only issue I see here is creating an immense undo list.

To be clear, you guys are talking about an undo for every single fader tweak? Yes?

I mix on my MCU hardware largely and I am constantly pushing faders up and down, trying little tweaks, etc. (It's like playing an instrument).
When I find something I want to save I'll write it to automation.
That way I can turn off read if I want to continue trying stuff without disturbing my "perfect" balance for that track or group of tracks.

Personally (just me), I would rather not have my REALLY important undos (like a big edit on a part or deleting a chorus) buried under 6000 fader tweaks.
But it seems that many do need this.
And my issue with it would be addressed if it were a separate undo list for the mixer only.

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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby CubeDAW » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:06 pm

HughH said it best.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby Cubasesx2to5 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:20 am

Yeah exactly. Like a separate mixer history
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby curteye » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:29 am

Since we are dealing with computers there is no reason why
EVERYTHING that is done (once the machine is up-and-running)
cannot be remembered and recalled.

Keystroke hackers do it all the time.

Paraphrasing Steve Jobs:
The 'undo' function is one of man's greatest achievements.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby Headlands » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:55 am

HughH wrote:The only issue I see here is creating an immense undo list.

To be clear, you guys are talking about an undo for every single fader tweak? Yes?


Yes, like PT has. Hugely useful for everyone, most probably even those who think they wouldn't need it.

HughH wrote:Personally (just me), I would rather not have my REALLY important undos (like a big edit on a part or deleting a chorus) buried under 6000 fader tweaks.
But it seems that many do need this.
And my issue with it would be addressed if it were a separate undo list for the mixer only.
Hugh


I agree completely: A separate undo list is what's needed, otherwise it would get way too cluttered with undos.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby iBM » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:21 am

Headlands wrote:[I agree completely: A separate undo list is what's needed, otherwise it would get way too cluttered with undos.

Yes, a seperate undo list for the mixer would be nice.
And it don't need to have 6000 undo's to cover up a few mixing mistakes ;)

Thinking loud here (feeding fuel to the fire), while at it:
Why don't make it like the seperate Undo/History list as the one Nuendo's Automation has?
With Trees and Branches for different versions, so you can have different versions to compare in addition to use it as different undo list.
PS. Not approved by CubeDAW...................................Yet :mrgreen:
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby mpayne0 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:47 pm

CubeDAW wrote:I wonder why some people are accidentally making changes to the mixer while other people (like me) never do.

Undo is not only for accidents

??

however, from software I use in my day job that DOES have unlimited undo for separate tasks, it CAN become wildly confusing and inappropriate. Things like switching focus, changing between variations (lets call them layers)... everything is included, so when you just want to undo a change, you have to go step by step thru every mouse click....

so I dunno about the fader and how they resolve it.

Perhaps you can ignore... better yet configure which steps are included in the mixer undo options.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby Cut-a-Corner » Thu May 01, 2014 3:36 am

i don't think that fader movements have to be included. even EQ is not what we really need.
IF they include movements, then they should make it an option and it has to be a seperate "undo mixer history".

what should be included:
assigning sends, sidechains, groups and ... INSERTS (including their last state).

why are some people against it?
i doesn't get in the way of your type of workflow?
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby mpayne0 » Thu May 01, 2014 2:56 pm

TBH, I know it's hard to implement, but fader movements are the one thing that I'd want, because it's the one thing where I need to be sure that levels are what I had and what I want.

What if there were a little arrow in the channel, click it and it would return the fader to the last 'true' move. Not a temporary tick of .5db, but a move over a certain distance for a certain time would be considered a 'true' move. Those moves are remembered.
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Re: UNDO for the mixer. Absolutely necessary!

Postby ErikG » Mon May 05, 2014 7:56 am

mpayne0 wrote:TBH, I know it's hard to implement, but fader movements are the one thing that I'd want, because it's the one thing where I need to be sure that levels are what I had and what I want.

What if there were a little arrow in the channel, click it and it would return the fader to the last 'true' move. Not a temporary tick of .5db, but a move over a certain distance for a certain time would be considered a 'true' move. Those moves are remembered.


There is. It's called automation...
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