Some basic questions - i7 or Xeon E5?

Scott,

thanks a lot for this great info. That is exactly that kind of information I am looking for. I am trusting your words a lot.

So - I hope it is ok to ask a few more things:

  • the 4930K is fine for Audio-PCs?
  • regarding the Board - is there anything wrong with that Asus P9X79 WS? I am open for any other option as long as it will gives me the options I need regarding i/o & pci-e slots etc.
  • Overclocking: I am using Music Computers since 98 or so and Overclock was always a bad idea for serious audio systems. Has that changed? I would guess that I can not go wrong with a mild overclocking, but in any case “safety before speed”…
    Most likely your time is limited - but are there good resources in the www dealing with stuff like that?

Thanks,
Brandy

There is speculation that we will see an 8 core ‘Extreme’ edition of i7 later this year. I imagine it will be something along the lines of the 4960 with additional cores. I’m waiting on upgrading my 4 core i7 2600 until then.

As far as overclocking is concerned, I overclock my i7 using the automated ASUS BIOS feature and my rig is very stable. If I set the overclocking values manually and push it too far the BIOS ‘puts me in my place’ and the machine boots to BIOS automatically and provides notification that the selected overclocking values are not permissible.

More on the new Intel… “Devil’s Canyon” Haswell-E Series…

  • 8 Core
  • DDR4
  • Intel X99 chipset
  • LGA2011-3 socket
  • Up to five devices in PCI Express 2.0/3.0 x8 mode (four graphics cards and one solid-state drive in PCIe card form-factor)
  • 10 Serial ATA-6Gb/s ports, up to six USB 3.0 ports (14 USB ports in total)
  • No word on clock speeds yet

This thing is a beast… Very exciting… From what I can tell so far this will double my current processing capacity

4930K is what we sell the most of yes. and a good 70% are over clocked. over clocking was NEVER bad for a professional workstation if done correctly, really bad if done wrong. been selling OCed systems since 1997.
however in early days the potential to “fry” the chip was there. this is pretty impossible now.

there are tons of how to’s on the net for OCing. many are not designed for quiet however.
we never recommend using the “easy bios” for OCing. or even installing the included software. (can cause DPC issues)
some have luck with it however.

Well, when not using the Easy Bios OR the software for overclocking - how to do it then? I understand that you might not want to share all the details here, but at least I need some starting point for my research. Thanks for any additional info here, Scott!

Back those days I remember that I overclocked an Athlon using a small piece of wire to connect two pins on the socket… Quite a stone age strategy I would guess. :smiley:

And I have to hijack my own topic now to add another question…

I wanted to use Win7 64bit ultimate again because all I know about Win8 is that it is “the next Vista” and that you better stay away from it. But doing research it seems that a lot of user are using Win8.1 with great success.

I heard that there might be Firewire Issues under 8/8.1… I am still using two Powercore Firewire units and I need/plan to continue using them on my new system. So I will most likely keep Win7… or no?

I remember those days also the pencil trick with Athlons later.
fortunately nothing that crazy anymore.

too complicated to list here sorry

I would stay with win 7

Thanks Scott, it helps!!

I will do research :slight_smile:

Most likely doing the OC thing later… Are there any arguments against setting up a system without OC first, starting work, doing OC stuff later?

none at all
however memory is crucial (pun intended)

for socket 2011 you must buy a higher grade 1.35v ram and that’s just for normal use
OCing really needs quality ram (and no you don’t OC ram ever)

socket 2011 caused us to have our own ram made because of the issues we ran into

I am looking at 32GB Corsair Dominator GT DDR3-1866 DIMM CL9 in the moment…

nope its 1.5v
Gskill maybe…

Mh, Asus listed that Corsair Dominator Ram in their docs - P9X79-E WS… Now I am slightly confused.

There are only 1,5V Ram recommendations - and some 1,6V…

and previously:

for socket 2011 you must buy a higher grade 1.35v ram and that’s just for normal use

Is it me or a typo or is the meaning “higher grade” the reference? I just thought that 1.35 was lower than 1.50. Or do I need to look up new ram specs? Probably.

Brandy, I recently built a new system around the Asus P9X79-E WS because it could take consumer or Xeons.

However, I went for the 4930K because it was by far the best value. The top end consumer parts are double the cost for very little speed boost (200MHz), and the Xeons are several times the cost without the possibility of OCing. The mb does allow the possibility of putting a high-core Xeon in if needed.

The thing with DAWs is that you are really trying to cater for the best worst-case latency you can afford to handle, because exceeding that results in audio problems.

With the consumer CPUs, you can design the system to handle 80-90% of your projects without OCing, just so you can keep everything running quiet and cool, but if needed, you can OC to up the capacity for those projects that push the envelope.

With Xeons, you basically have to design the system to handle 100% of your projects, because you have NO reserve! That’s an expensive corner to paint yourself into!

I have noticed the Cubase still seems to favour one core a little (might be the one handling the UI thread), which means that if that is pushed beyond its limits, it doesn’t matter how many other cores you have, because the system will be compromised. That is why having the possibility to OC is important.

For memory, I got 32GB of Geil 2133 - it was no more expensive than the slower parts.

Is that 200MHz / core or 200MHz overall (200MHz / 6 cores?)

Thanks

Casey

It is 200MHz x 6 cores, but that is still a very diminished return for the ‘privilege’ of paying double!

Note that is far below what OCing up just one notch will get.

if you even knew how the validated/tested (lack there of) you would not assume anything the manufacturers say.

NO ONE and I mean no one validates with a full set of ram (8 filled slots)

trust me you want 1.35v or very high spec like Patanjali said and clock it at 1600

the chips we use in ours is DDR 3 2400 (binned) grade 1A low voltage. (in other words best of the best)
I pay as much or more than what you can buy that corsair for and there is a reason for it.

Well, sorry to say but I am quite confused now…

In my case I plan to put 32GB (4 slots) of ram into my system. I barely can find any RAM with 1.3V.

All the stuff, G.Skill, Geil, Corsair etc is 1,5V or 1,65V.

I have to say that I do not need/want to do extreme overclocking things, I just need a very solid system and if it is possible to OC that in the future a little, why not.


What is a recommended high spec Ram? I was under the impression that this Corsair Dominator is quite a good ram… Or is it just expensive? What is the benefit of 2400 Ram clocked at 1600?

Patanjali, thanks for that post - I agree on everything you said!

My P9X79-E WS will be delivered today - I did a lot of research and yes, there are MANY options - but that board will gives me 100% what I want. Enough PCI-e for example… And the Case I have will fit! Corsair 800d… The WS Board is bigger then ATX as it seems.

Regarding the CPU I will do exactly what you did - after research and of course these posts in this thread I decided that the 4930K will be by far the best choice - “bang for the buck” - I will have more benefit “from the buck” when I spend the 1500EUR difference in price in a UAD OCTO or something like that… and of course that what you wrote regarding the usage of the Cores… this is exactly what I experienced here all the time with my i7 950 rig… Often the CPU is not spread well and one Core is in use quite more - than I have 80% CPU in the Nuendo meter but in task manager the overall system is only at 35 % or something… this sucks… and I fear that even with a 12 Core I will not have any advantage here, one Core at 90% and others at 20… So better using that 6 Core and trying to OC it when the system is maxed out.

Well, regarding the RAM - I do not have a clue - I can find 1000s of people in the www using that Board and CPU and they are using all kind of RAM, usually Corsair Venegance or something like that with no issues. But what Scott said makes me hesistate - cause he knows his sh*t :sunglasses:

What Ram do you use exactly? There are just too many options regarding RAM and I do not have a clue what will work best for me…

Brandy

sadly I wouldn’t touch any of these options. I used to like Mushkin but then they started changing chips faster than I change underwear.

Gskill has/had some decent 1.35v wait found it

just have to buy 2 sets and hope both sets are

  1. the same Eeprom programing
  2. the same chips.

the way most these guys work is they buy the cheapest chips they can. so week 12 batch is different than week 13 might be Elpida one week and hundai the next

also you may be ok with 4 sticks of a different batch (depending on their XMP) but if you try to add 4 more forget it.

again there is a reason we spent a fortune getting our own ram up and running. not what I wanted to do and I get sick to my stomach every time I have to order more or worse send the wire transfer the following month. :astonished:

Thanks a lot, Scott.

I will try this Ram!

Is there a reason WHY that Ram is good? Everyone is raving about 9CL stuff, this one is 11CL and “only” 1600 etc - I am just asking because I want to understand the overall thing a little better.

I will order 2 sets - on my mainboard there are two sets of ram-slots - so most likely I will put SetA into the black slots and SetB into the blue ones… Or not?