VST Connect & VST Connect SE - Solution Thread

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Re: VST Connect SE problem

Post by mink » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:45 pm

And NAT should be no problem. ...

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Re: VST Connect SE problem

Post by dlpmusic » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:52 pm

R wrote:I was able to set this up with a buddy. We could see each other from the webcams (The video is flaky to say the least)and hear each other from the To Performer and Performer monitor but I could not record his audio using the built in template. No audio is passed through the "Performer Rec" channel when sourced to "TB/Performer". I have followed the guide and the video to the T but with no success.

Did you have to forward the ports to get this much to work?
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Re: VST Connect SE problem

Post by R » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:01 pm

dlpmusic wrote:
R wrote:I was able to set this up with a buddy. We could see each other from the webcams (The video is flaky to say the least)and hear each other from the To Performer and Performer monitor but I could not record his audio using the built in template. No audio is passed through the "Performer Rec" channel when sourced to "TB/Performer". I have followed the guide and the video to the T but with no success.

Did you have to forward the ports to get this much to work?

I had to open ports 51111 to 51113 on my router so that my buddy could connect. Problem still that I cannot record him.
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Re: VST Connect SE problem

Post by dlpmusic » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:11 am

I port forwarded to my computers ip address and I was able to connect to a remote machine, but it would time out in about 5-10 seconds.
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Re: VST Connect SE problem

Post by musicullum » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:37 am

Duracell: your findings are correct, but there is no particular order in which the nodes connect to each other. In fact, they both attempt to connect in parallel until one gets a reply, and they reply to the translated port too (NAT traversal).
Thus I'm surprised that your connection doesn't work, if Wireshark shows incoming packets, a reply should be posted (you should see that in the Wireshark logs...no?). Can you provide more details?
R: if you can monitor your partner you can certainly record him. That's nothing to do with VST Connect, normal Cubase recording business...you did set the Performer Record track to record enable...?
Video will also be enhanced in the next update.
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Re: VST Connect SE problem

Post by musicullum » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:45 am

dlpmusic wrote:I port forwarded to my computers ip address and I was able to connect to a remote machine, but it would time out in about 5-10 seconds.
There is indeed a timeout of approx. 8 seconds when there is no activity Possibly...if neither audio nor video is transmitted from the other side, the timeout might be hit - we'll check. OTOH a connection without both video and audio doesn't make much sense :-)
Did you try this more than once?
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Re: VST Connect SE problem

Post by Duracell » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:16 am

musicullum wrote:Duracell: your findings are correct, but there is no particular order in which the nodes connect to each other. In fact, they both attempt to connect in parallel until one gets a reply, and they reply to the translated port too (NAT traversal).
Thus I'm surprised that your connection doesn't work, if Wireshark shows incoming packets, a reply should be posted (you should see that in the Wireshark logs...no?). Can you provide more details?
R: if you can monitor your partner you can certainly record him. That's nothing to do with VST Connect, normal Cubase recording business...you did set the Performer Record track to record enable...?
Video will also be enhanced in the next update.

Good to hear about how the connection is established, then what I saw on the wireshark log make some sense. My computer was still in the establishment phase. I will keep you updated on my findings.

BR
Anders
Last edited by Duracell on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VST Connect SE problem

Post by Duracell » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:26 pm

I did some more tests. Here are the wireshark log files (open with wireshark).

Both computers are macs running OSX 10.8.2

studio running cubase 7.0.0 is behind a router/firewall with port forwarding ip 10.0.1.100.
performer running VST connect SE performer has a public IP-address.

BR
Anders

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https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5967/VST%20con ... 20firewall
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Re: VST Connect SE problem

Post by dlpmusic » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:39 pm

musicullum wrote:
dlpmusic wrote:I port forwarded to my computers ip address and I was able to connect to a remote machine, but it would time out in about 5-10 seconds.
There is indeed a timeout of approx. 8 seconds when there is no activity Possibly...if neither audio nor video is transmitted from the other side, the timeout might be hit - we'll check. OTOH a connection without both video and audio doesn't make much sense :-)
Did you try this more than once?
We did a crude test...so perhaps what you say is the problem. I will try to test with someone else shortly.
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Re: VST Connect SE problem Time 2

Post by GeekPros » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:05 am

I have the same problem. We connect and then disconnect with "Connection Timout, Disconnected" message. We have forwarded all port 51111-51113 (at both ends for troubleshooting), tested the forwarding with PFPortChecker from portforward.com. Tried putting both the computers on the DMZ... same problem. Leave this off, it won't make a difference if the ports are forwarded properly. Should I enable ping on WAN? I'm about to.

I went to speedtest.net and tested my internet speed and his. Both have 3.5mb upload and 26mb download - and 16ms ping on his and 15ms on mine. Way more than the requirements of 256kb upload and a great ping.

Both running 64bit Windows 7 - Performer has nothing but the client performer software and a Behringer usb audio input which when my track was set to 96khz and 32bit floating, I got a message from VST Connect that I had to change to 48Khz and 16 bit to match the settings on the performer. It made a proper handshake there.

I can see the Performer audio settings - for the 5-10 seconds it stays connected. It is really connected.
He has never been playing while I've been connected, not sure if we would hear anything.

I tried to set my remote delay compensation to various levels up to 20 seconds. Still drops within 10 seconds.

I've used the preset template and made 2 of my own - I understand how it works. Performer Group track routing is TB Performer in and To Performer Output. The VST Connect and SE plugins come alive during the connection. They are in the Insert locations on the input channel for VST Connect and the performer group channel for VST Connect SE.

Is there something we are doing wrong? Do I need to enable ping on the WAN? Is there an update that solves this?
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Re: VST Connect SE problem Time 2

Post by musicullum » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:37 am

GeekPros wrote:I have the same problem. We connect and then disconnect with "Connection Timout, Disconnected" message.
Is there something we are doing wrong? Do I need to enable ping on the WAN? Is there an update that solves this?
If you get connected, everything related to your internet connection, ports etc is set up and working, no need to search there. Also this has nothing to do with how Cubase is set up.
We looked it up and the only explanation is that the Performer has no audio and no video connected. The performer can set this up himself using the VST Connect SE Performer application:
- start the VST Connect SE Performer application
- click the "Conf" button on the right hand side
- make sure an active "audio device" is seleced. If none is present, download and install ASIO4All (assuming this is Windows; on the Mac, there should be a system audio device) available at www.asio4all.com
- if possible install a webcam and select it in the "video device" setting.

Does it work now?
musi

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Re: VST Connect SE problem

Post by dlpmusic » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:03 pm

SUCCESS! This thing works amazing!

Had to forward ports 51111-51113 to my computers ip address....and do the same on the other end.

Now that we were sending video and audio no time outs or drop outs....it worked flawlessly.
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Re: VST Connect SE problem

Post by ZeroZero » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:22 pm

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Cannot record performer using VST Connect SE

Post by R » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:33 pm

I am using the default VST Connect SE Template and testing with a friend. The remote client's audio is heard on the Performer Monitor channel in my studio but as soon as I play or record the audio is muted and no audio is routed to the Performer Record channel so I cannot record the remote user.

We can communicate fine both ways over the "performer monitor" channel. The recording is supposed to take place on the "performer record" channel but I see no meter activity on this channel and nothing is recorded. Both the Inst and Conf buttons are activated so when the remote user has a microphone and a direct guitar I can hear both independently over the "performer monitor" stereo channel.

Has anyone been able to record the remote user using VST Connect?
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Re: Cannot record performer using VST Connect SE

Post by musicullum » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:37 am

It could be that you have the "Instr." channel activated on the Performer. In this case, the Performer's "Mic" channel functions as a talkback only and is muted during playback/record so to record the instrument only.
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VST Connect & VST Connect SE - Solution Thread

Post by GeekPros » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:21 pm

VST Connect REQUIRES a web cam. Without a webcam VST Connect will disconnect with a message "Connection Timeout, Disconnected". We were trying to do this without cameras but it wouldn't let us. Also, beyond what I did below, I found that the Behringer ASIO driver would not pass audio either way. No sound. We switched to the ASIO4ALL driver at the performer end and it solved that problem.

Here is my original post when it didn't work
________________________________________

We connect and then disconnect with "Connection Timout, Disconnected" message. We have forwarded all port 51111-51113 (at both ends for troubleshooting), tested the forwarding with PFPortChecker from portforward.com. Tried putting both the computers on the DMZ... same problem. Leave this off, it won't make a difference if the ports are forwarded properly. Should I enable ping on WAN? I'm about to.

I went to speedtest.net and tested my internet speed and his. Both have 3.5mb upload and 26mb download - and 16ms ping on his and 15ms on mine. Way more than the requirements of 256kb upload and a great ping.

Both running 64bit Windows 7 - Performer has nothing but the client performer software and a Behringer usb audio input which when my track was set to 96khz and 32bit floating, I got a message from VST Connect that I had to change to 48Khz and 16 bit to match the settings on the performer. It made a proper handshake there.

I can see the Performer audio settings - for the 5-10 seconds it stays connected. It is really connected.
He has never been playing while I've been connected, not sure if we would hear anything.

I tried to set my remote delay compensation to various levels up to 20 seconds. Still drops within 10 seconds.

I've used the preset template and made 2 of my own - I understand how it works. Performer Group track routing is TB Performer in and To Performer Output. The VST Connect and SE plugins come alive during the connection. They are in the Insert locations on the input channel for VST Connect and the performer group channel for VST Connect SE.

_____________________________________________________________________
This was all solved with port forwarding, ASIO4ALL driver, and Web Cams at both ends. My Focusrite Saffire ASIO Driver on the cubase end works fine and did not need an ASIO4ALL. I'm going to test 96KHZ 24bit or 32bit floating with another friend today who has a better audio device.

You do not need to enable the WAN ping for this to work.

Please POST REPLY any other solutions
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Re: VST Connect & VST Connect SE - Solution Thread

Post by casemundy » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:15 am

VST Connect REQUIRES a web cam.
This isn't true. My friend and I just ran a (semi) successful session with only a webcam on my (the engineer) side. I'm on an iMac with 10.8.3 and he's on a Windows 7 PC.
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Re: VST Connect & VST Connect SE - Solution Thread

Post by musicullum » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:09 pm

If either audio or video (or both) are streamed, the connection should not time out.
As said before, a timeout occurs if neither audio nor video is streamed (when nothing is beeing received, the receiver assumes a broken connection). This will be fixed with the new version which will keep the connection alive even if no media are streamed.
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[SOLVED] Cannot record performer using VST Connect SE

Post by R » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:56 pm

The problem was with an Apple Mac OS connection. Once a PC user with Windows 7 connected I could record his guitar track and listen to his connected microphone.
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Re: VST Connect & VST Connect SE - Solution Thread

Post by ninjafreddan » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:02 am

musicullum wrote:This will be fixed with the new version which will keep the connection alive even if no media are streamed.
Perfect! Because the main problem I'm having with Connect SE is that the connection time out. Within the first half-hour of testing it constantly time outed, then suddenly it started working. At least when not touching any controls and just talk back monitoring back and fourth. Whenever I tried to adjust the performer controls or monitor the performers audio, the connection broke down most of the time. Recording audio went okay, though I got occasional clicks and glitches on the recorded track even with three second remote delay compensation.
The auto scaling latency/buffer size function is not optimal, personally I think it would better to let the user set the buffer size and be able to raise it if glitches occur during talk back. In my case be able to lower it when on a really fast Internet connection.

Connect SE is a really innovative function and I'm going to use it a lot when it works properly.


Keep up the good work
Fred

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Re: Cannot record performer using VST Connect SE

Post by R » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:32 pm

I received this form Steinberg support.

VST Connect is not supported for MAC OS 10.6.8. It is supported for 10.7 and 10.8.
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Re: VST Connect & VST Connect SE - Solution Thread

Post by musicullum » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:44 pm

ninjafreddan wrote:Whenever I tried to adjust the performer controls or monitor the performers audio, the connection broke down most of the time. Recording audio went okay, though I got occasional clicks and glitches on the recorded track even with three second remote delay compensation.
The auto scaling latency/buffer size function is not optimal, personally I think it would better to let the user set the buffer size and be able to raise it if glitches occur during talk back. In my case be able to lower it when on a really fast Internet connection.

Connect SE is a really innovative function and I'm going to use it a lot when it works properly.


Keep up the good work
Fred

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Thank you!
a) I haven't come across a connection breaking down as long as any audio is sent. "Breaking down" in this case I assume means disconnection? That's odd, then, especially when recording audio is basically working...?
b) what do you mean by "auto scaling latency/buffer size function"? the only existing close to that is the remote latency setting, which is user controllable. Actually, nothing is auto adjusted.
It should not be necessary to raise remote latency to more than 1.5 or max 2 seconds worst case. If the connection is shaky, it almost always means that you (mainly, the Performer) are using WLAN and/or are downloading, viewing youtube videos etc (one gets so used to this...been there myself), or you (or Performer) just have no better upstream from your provider. Check one of the many speetest sites; a minimum of 256 kBit upstream is required, and even that only works if you set all upstream settings to minimum, 384 should be ok for basic operation.
One more thing...could be that disabling ASIO Guard helps, it works ok here though.
Let me know when there is more where we can help.
musi

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Re: VST Connect & VST Connect SE - Solution Thread

Post by ninjafreddan » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:00 pm

musicullum wrote:a) I haven't come across a connection breaking down as long as any audio is sent. "Breaking down" in this case I assume means disconnection? That's odd, then, especially when recording audio is basically working...?
Yeah, like I wrote, in the first half hour of testing the connection disconnected after ten seconds or so, no matter what we did. Then it started working better, but it was still a shaky ride.
musicullum wrote:b) what do you mean by "auto scaling latency/buffer size function"? the only existing close to that is the remote latency setting, which is user controllable. Actually, nothing is auto adjusted.
Strange, because sometimes the short latency during talk back got audibly longer, we heard it because we had a hands-free cellphone line as backup talk back. We both heard that the latency sort of scaled up and got longer, then it got shorter after a while. Why not let the users set the buffer size of the talk back connection as well?
musicullum wrote:It should not be necessary to raise remote latency to more than 1.5 or max 2 seconds worst case. If the connection is shaky, it almost always means that you (mainly, the Performer) are using WLAN and/or are downloading, viewing youtube videos etc (one gets so used to this...been there myself), or you (or Performer) just have no better upstream from your provider.
We cleaned up all background programs due to the shaky performance of Connect SE and we were both on pretty fast connections. Been using the Digital Musician Container software for online collaboration without any hickups for several months, so our Internet connections are definitely good enough. The DMC software is just hopelessly difficult to maneuver in a creative way, so we have high hopes for Connect SE. ;)
musicullum wrote:Check one of the many speetest sites; a minimum of 256 kBit upstream is required, and even that only works if you set all upstream settings to minimum, 384 should be ok for basic operation.
Well, I'm on a pretty fast ADSL connection - IN: 31,24 Mbit/s OUT: 6,30 Mbit/s PING: 30ms - according to a speedtest site. My co-writing partner is on a 3G connection that's actually very stable for being mobile Internet (works flawlessly with DMC) and his speed varies a bit - IN: 7-12 Mbit/s OUT: 5-8 Mbit/s.

Internet connection speed or stability really isn't an issue for us.
musicullum wrote:One more thing...could be that disabling ASIO Guard helps, it works ok here though.
Ah, can it be ASIO Guard that varies the latency?

I will try Connect SE with ASIO Guard disabled.
musicullum wrote:Let me know when there is more where we can help.
When I have the time I will write down a couple of suggestions for improvement.

I really want this function to work, it will save me a lot of time and effort when co-writing with online collaborators.


Keep up the good work
Fred
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Re: VST Connect & VST Connect SE - Solution Thread

Post by musicullum » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:02 pm

ninjafreddan wrote: Yeah, like I wrote, in the first half hour of testing the connection disconnected after ten seconds or so, no matter what we did. Then it started working better, but it was still a shaky ride.
Looking at your connection specs that doesn't make much sense. There is a connection timeout of 10 seconds but that is reset with every audio or video packet received. If you contact me privately we could try a test connection.
ninjafreddan wrote:
musicullum wrote:b) what do you mean by "auto scaling latency/buffer size function"?
Strange, because sometimes the short latency during talk back got audibly longer, we heard it because we had a hands-free cellphone line as backup talk back. We both heard that the latency sort of scaled up and got longer, then it got shorter after a while. Why not let the users set the buffer size of the talk back connection as well?
Oh, I see. That is when no playback is rolling (chat). There, it indeed tries to adaptively reduce latency when possible. Sure we could make that adjustable. Sorry, blind for the easy parts, focused on the difficult connection and recording stuff :-)
ninjafreddan wrote:
musicullum wrote:Let me know when there is more where we can help.
When I have the time I will write down a couple of suggestions for improvement.
great, looking forward to it! Thanks for your support.
musi

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Re: VST Connect & VST Connect SE - Solution Thread

Post by loecata » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:49 pm

The same issue here: Sorry, connection failed: no reply. You may try again later.
I used vst project SE. I have 2 computers with 2 diferent internet conection (2 separate company provider) one of them cable one of them wirles rooter. I can't conect this 2 computers between.
OK i have a question. This new technology can connect only two computers ( the engineer and performer} or can connect more computer let say for a whole music band - four or mybee more musicians?
catalin rasvan

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