Remote Control Editor discussion

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goyya76
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by goyya76 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:46 pm

hi all,

yesterday night i had another try - misteriously enough, i chosed Nuage template, clicked "learn", moved a control on my BCN Nano and apparently it worked - then, a nice crash! just to report a small glimpse of hope :)

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Mackie control and remote control editor?

Post by trashdinner » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:35 am

Please Heldge could you explain how to use/setup the mackie control with the remote control editor?
It's stated in you preview videos that it's compatible right off the box
but I can't make it work ... I have the MCU without usb and it's all configured in my cubase.
Please help.
Thx

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Re: Mackie control and remote control editor?

Post by trashdinner » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:01 pm

bump

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beatpete
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Re: Mackie control and remote control editor?

Post by beatpete » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:07 pm

The Remote Control Editor seems like a bit of a misnomer, no one can get it to work and no response from moderators...
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by sensorychaos » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:01 am

This is ridiculous.
This is one of the worse daw for simple parameters remote linking.
We should be able to right click any parameters and midi learn a fader in no time... :cry:
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Re: Mackie control and remote control editor?

Post by trashdinner » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:03 am

Ok ... if I change the layout of the buttons in the remote control of a plugin for example,
and then I press apply and go to my MCU in the plugin function of that channel,
I can see the change of layout I did, but the learn button doesn't detect any buttons from my MCU :(
So what I understand for now, is that it's only to customise the order or what you want to see in your controller ... please someone tell me I'm wrong!

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Remote control editor: strange knob behaviour

Post by jcologne » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:59 am

I've tried to use the new remote control editor with the Retrologue and an Icon Qcon Pro which uses Mackie Control.

In the editor I've selected "standard", resetted the control knobs and used the learn function to assign the knobs to different parameters and renamed them to properly display on my unit.

So far everything was fine but when turning the knobs on the Qcon the controls in the Retrologue only jump from 0 (7 o'clock) to 1 o'clock.
I've tried the different functionalities for the knob (standard, LED-Ring etc.) to no avail.

It works fine with Steinberg VST3 inserts (envelope shaper etc.) and Waves Plugins for example.

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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by JHP » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:11 am

Hi,
To confirm:
Indeed the "Remote Control Editor" is not a "MIDI Control Editor" and does not work with all MIDI controllers but only with supported controllers that are in the list like for example:

- CM Motormix
- JLCooper MCS3000
- Mackie Control
- Mackie HUI
- Radikal SAC-2K
- Steinberg Houston
- Yamaha DM2000 V2
(and probably other devices that use the same protocol.)

As well as:
- Yamaha NUAGE
- WK-ID
- System 5-MC (EuCon)
- Artist Series (EuCon)

Greetings,
JHP
Jan Peters, QA
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by jcologne » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:47 am

My Qcon Pro (Mackie Control) orks just as fine with C7 as with C6.5

On top of that the setup with the remote controller editor was straightforward to me.

I left the protocol in the editor on standard, clicked on learn and assigned all parameters in the order I like them and even renamed them. It is actually usable now with plugins and VSTis!

2 Problems that ocurred: When renaming for the display of my controller with some plgins it was fine with editing the 8 digit name while with most others I had to rename the main parameter name.
Also, while assigning was fine with the Retrologue the controls behave weirdly when turning the knobs.
All other plugins I've tried work fine.

I don't now yet how to get the controller editor for the main channel EQ... (not a plugin, so probably won't work)

Does somebody know how I can get rid of the play/stop etc buttons on my controller to trigger the sounds of the VSTi I've just got open?

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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by sensorychaos » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:31 pm

JHP wrote:Hi,
To confirm:
Indeed the "Remote Control Editor" is not a "MIDI Control Editor" and does not work with all MIDI controllers but only with supported controllers that are in the list like for example:

- CM Motormix
- JLCooper MCS3000
- Mackie Control
- Mackie HUI
- Radikal SAC-2K
- Steinberg Houston
- Yamaha DM2000 V2
(and probably other devices that use the same protocol.)

As well as:
- Yamaha NUAGE
- WK-ID
- System 5-MC (EuCon)
- Artist Series (EuCon)

Greetings,
JHP

Hi, really deceiving new. Staying non opened to third party controller in any kind isn't a good marketing option...But this is just my 2 cents...
Last edited by sensorychaos on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by goyya76 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:09 pm

JHP wrote:Hi,
To confirm:
Indeed the "Remote Control Editor" is not a "MIDI Control Editor" and does not work with all MIDI controllers but only with supported controllers that are in the list like for example:

- CM Motormix
- JLCooper MCS3000
- Mackie Control
- Mackie HUI
- Radikal SAC-2K
- Steinberg Houston
- Yamaha DM2000 V2
(and probably other devices that use the same protocol.)

As well as:
- Yamaha NUAGE
- WK-ID
- System 5-MC (EuCon)
- Artist Series (EuCon)

Greetings,
JHP
It would have been nice to know it in advance...on top of that, it would be nice to make it work with any controllor (but that's a whole different story...)

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Bane
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by Bane » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:39 pm

Thanks, JHP for letting us know. Would it be possible as goyya76 mentioned to open the RC Editor to all MIDI controllers or is the editor's current state it's intended purpose?
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by Backbeat » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:24 am

I have tried it with my Mackie control.
It is not what I expected!
It is just an rearrangement of the parameters of the vst .
You get the parameters with the old knob inserts or instrument.
Then go to insert plugin and there are the new pages you set up in the remote control editor for that plugin.

I thought that the vpots responds to the parameters if the plugin editor comes into focus....but no way...

I am very disappointed about the remote control editor!
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Remote Control Editor discussion

Post by cubic13 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:43 pm

Hi all,

Just tested what was one of my main reasons to upgrade : the Remote Control Editor. I tried it with my Mr Ray 73 mkII electric piano VSTi. Here we go...

1) First, a serious misbehavior which made me think that, at some point, C7 just crashed : right ckicking on a parameter to display the 'Control settings' menu of it makes Remote Control Editor and all Cubase unresponsive : hitting Escape doesn't work, as well as clicking or double-clicking on the menu or elsewhere and the whole Cubase UI is frozen (see the image below). Thankfully, I had the C7 Operation Manual opened so, as a last resort, I clicked on its Windows task bar button then on Cubase one : the 'control settings' menu has disappeared and Cubase was reacting normally again. So, beware of this ! I don't know what is the point of it anyway, as all the parameters displayed in it are also available in the inspector...

2) Seems that this feature is only usable with only four layouts dedicated to standard controllers. I was exepecting, at least, that my two generic rmote controllers already defined in the 'Device setup' window would have been on the list. At this point, I am wondering : what is the use of the Remote Control Editor if the generic remote controllers already defined are of no use ?

3) I persisted, though, hoping to get a use of it, somehow. A good point : the quick control assignments are taken in account by the RCE, as expected. But what I wanted is to assign more parameters of the VSTi to my remote controllers, as there are still only eight of them. So, I tried the 'Trmolo speed' one which has no quick control affected to it. I carefully chacked that the 'Learn' button was active and choosed the 'Tremolo speed' one. Fine... Then what ? Moving any control of one or other of my two controllers leads to nothing : no indication about an eventual detection of the controller move. Clicking on 'Apply' and closing the remote Control Editor' window is also without results.

So, end of the experience : Ther Remote Control editor is of no use at it present state on my setup. I decided to upgrade from 6.5.4 mainly for it and it seems that it's another half-baked feature which could have been of great use if :
- It was usable, at least, with the generic remote already defined as, by definition, these are the real ones the user are working with.
- It clearly showed which control of which remote controller is involved for each of the parameters displayed.
- It had a more convenient and less buggy interface : as an example, beside what happened with the 'Control settings' menu, I tried the second of the (very short) list of the available remote controllers and, doing so, crashed Cubase with the 'A serious problem occured...' displayed several times. Had to close Cubase via the Windows task manager...

So, if Steiny could tell us in a clearer way than the manual does what is the 'Remote Control Editor' real usefulness ? Thanks...
Attachments
C7_RCE.jpg
Frozen interface of C7 after right-clicking on a parameter for the 'Control settings' menu.
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Re: Remote Control Editor : buggy and useless...

Post by TonyB » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:45 pm

Confirmed. I tried RCE for the first time last night & found bug number one straight away. Opening a pdf fixed it for me too, after a minute of clicking everywhere !!
I gave up at that point..
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by sming » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:29 pm

Dear all the passionate Cubase/Nuendo users,

Our sincere apology to all the confusions and misunderstandings appeared since the release. For that, I would try my best to clarify a bit here for a better understanding of the discussed feature.

Well, a number of common hardware controllers like Mackie Control, CM Motormix, Euphonix controllers and other Mackie-compatible devices have been integrated well with Cubase/Nuendo since the early days, which allow users to control many channel specific functions/parameters conveniently via the surface as if they were one single unit.

Likewise, users can manipulate the parameters of the inserted plugins conveniently. However, when accessing any plugin control from the surface, users would only get the default parameter ordering from the system. Often, this could be a cumbersome experience when the ordering of those parameters is not optimal, or when it comes to plugins with a large number of parameters that need to be mapped to the limited hardware knobs. Apart from that, different engineers might have different preferences over the order of some specific parameters and so on. Based on these reasons, there have been quite some wishes and requests since then.

Hence, the RC Editor (supposed to be a parameter layout editor) is designed to be a mini tool that enables users to be able to reorder, rename or redefine the parameters of their favorite plugins based on their own preference and taste, as well as their hardware setup. In other words, it is a tool for manipulating the sub-optimal parameter layout that users experienced on their surface when accessing the VST plugins.

Unfortunately, this would also mean that it is absolutely not a replacement for the existing generic control editor that is used for general MIDI devices, as these devices have never supported the plugin editing directly like the described ones (before the assignments are done in the device setup manually)

Tips: As General MIDI does not standardize the plugin manipulation in general, Mackie protocol has been the de-Facto standard in such an area. So, if your hardware device is compatible to Mackie protocol and you were able to control the inserted VST plugins since the early days, it is very likely that you will be able to use the editor to customize your own layout as described.

Here's the list of the devices that have been tested. Note that your hardware controllers might work as the Mackie Control setup too if they support Mackie Control Protocol or Steinberg Hardware SDK out of the box ;)
compatibility.png
compatible hardwares
(9.27 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Hope this info helps!

cheers
SMing
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Re: Remote Control Editor : buggy and useless...

Post by Puma0382 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:49 pm

cubic13 wrote: So, if Steiny could tell us in a clearer way than the manual does what is the 'Remote Control Editor' real usefulness ? Thanks...
Just noticed this posting from an SB employee... does it help..?
https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtop ... 38#p205738
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by cubic13 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:52 pm

Sming,

I invite you to read my thread on the subject :

https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtop ... 75&t=32046

I am still wondering at what the RCE is useful for me who has 2 remote controllers not 'Mackie' compatible and would have liked to have, at least, my already two defined generic remote controllers as a starting point to use RCE. This without talking about the buggy interface...

Let us know what you think, in a less convoluted way, please. Thanks...
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Re: Remote Control Editor : buggy and useless...

Post by cubic13 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:57 pm

Puma0382 wrote:Just noticed this posting from an SB employee... does it help..?
https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtop ... 38#p205738
Would have liked to but, sadly, not really... The main question remains : as you already set your quick controls for your VSTis and defined your generic remote controllers in the dedicated 'Device setup...' page, at what RCE is useful if you can't link more parameters of the VStis involved to the different buttons, sliders and switches of the latters ?

Again, all my frustration comes that we still have only 8 quick controls at disposal and I was expecting that the RCE could be a kind of extension of them, this while including and be able to manage in just one window all the remote controlled parameters of each VSTi, but I was probably expecting too much...

As it appears to be now, the RCE is useless and, yes, buggy...

At this point, I am considering a feature that I never used : the device panels. But i'm afraid that, beside the tedious work of defining each parameter for each VSTi (and somes have a lot !), they are only usable with external gear and am not sure that you can specify remote devices to control the parameters defined. Will have a further look...
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by TabSel » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:20 pm

I dont get it. I am upset and disappointed.
There were so many ideas and wishes posted here to control (focused) Plugins with any midi controller, like all the other major and minor daws do one way or the other.
Yet, sb came up with such a "mini tool", useless to many users, advertised confusingly as if you've had listened to us.

You did not.

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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by Rich » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:16 am

I appreciate SB's response concerning the confusion surrounding the Remote Controll Editor, because it surely is confusing. I've got an MCU Pro. The MCU Pro will control inserts already. Just push the appropriate button and the active insert parameters appear on the scribble strip. I can then turn a VPot and change the parameter. However, the downside of this approach is that the parameter names are "bunched up" to fit the appropriate channel width and you have to scroll through pages to reach a needed parameter. WAY to slow. It's MUCH faster to do this with a mouse.

So I was under the impression the RCE would allow me to assign (and rename) parameters to the VPots to my liking. Some insert effects may have 20 parameters but I only need to adjust a few of them each time. So how cool would it be to just see a usable parameter on the first few vPots with a readable name.

However it's done, I just can't figure this out. Or maybe it just doesn't work. I REALLY wish SB (or someone who's figured this out) would post a step-by-step tutorial on YouTube showing how to get this thing up and running (and I don't mean the current video that provides little meaningful information).

-Rich
Last edited by Rich on Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by Backbeat » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:18 am

TabSel wrote:I dont get it. I am upset and disappointed.
There were so many ideas and wishes posted here to control (focused) Plugins with any midi controller, like all the other major and minor daws do one way or the other.
Yet, sb came up with such a "mini tool", useless to many users, advertised confusingly as if you've had listened to us.

You did not.
As TabSel wrote it is totally disapointing to me.
I am not using the Mackie Control to control Plugin Parameters because it is far to slow.
For example an insert plugin you have to select the insert slot first then turn the pages to search the parameter.
I am much more faster with a mouse to do the same.

Our wishes for Years was a Remote Control Editor with Focused Editor Window control.
That means if a VST Editor Window comes in focus the controls on the controller will follow.
You have to set up the parameters once for every plugin you want specific controls on your hardwarecontroller with the remote control editor.
Why not use the extra Digit of the Mackie Control Assignemt 9Segment Display to have an extra mode for pluginspecific controls you set up in the remote control editor??
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by sming » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:54 pm

cubic13 wrote:Sming,

I invite you to read my thread on the subject :

https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtop ... 75&t=32046

I am still wondering at what the RCE is useful for me who has 2 remote controllers not 'Mackie' compatible and would have liked to have, at least, my already two defined generic remote controllers as a starting point to use RCE. This without talking about the buggy interface...

Let us know what you think, in a less convoluted way, please. Thanks...
Thanks for the pointer, cubic13 :)

Ok... I must have trying too hard in the clarification earlier. Please excuse my unintended "convolution".
I will address your question in the mentioned thread later. Thanks.

cheers
SMing
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cheers,
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by cubic13 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:20 pm

sming wrote: Thanks for the pointer, cubic13 :)

Ok... I must have trying too hard in the clarification earlier. Please excuse my unintended "convolution".
I will address your question in the mentioned thread later. Thanks.

cheers
SMing
Hi, Sming and thanks for taking account of this.

I think that there indeed has been a misinterpretation from a lot of us concerning what the RCE was meant for. TBH, the manual is also rather cryptic about it as is the C7 adevertisement. Not a showstopper, but well... Please, take also account of the unstabilities noticed.

Any answer from you will be welcome.
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Re: Remote Controller Editor

Post by sming » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:27 pm

Hello TabSel,

We deeply regret the mentioned confusion and the inconvenience we caused so far. And, we like you to know that we are standing by you and that you are not alone.

In any case, we hope to amend and improve the situation as soon as we can and are looking forward to a possibility in extending the functionality of the current "misnamed" feature.
Thanks for your understanding.

________________________________________________________________________________

Hi Rich,

Please allow me to allocate some time to prepare a step-by-step text guide for your use case. Thanks!

cheers
SMing
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Software Research Developer
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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cheers,
SMing

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