Including Clicktrack in audioexport

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Brandy
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Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Brandy » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:30 pm

Hi,

will there EVER be a way in Cubase or Nuendo to include the clicktrack in the audioexport?

ITM there is NO way to do this. Even when I use an external VSTi for the internal metronome it is not possible.
I can't even re-record the click via a bus... internal.

I have to physically connect an out with an in, using a cable - then record the whole thing in real time.

Yes, I can set up a miditrack... yes I can send this track to a VSTi. But if you are just happy with the internal click?! Using features like precount and stuff when have to drop in in a tempo change (which a miditrack can not give).

But setting up a midi track can be quite time consuming. I have a 74 min session here where we used the internal click for drums and during all the other weeks a VSTi with a woodblock with accentuated downbeat. The tempotrack features zillions of metric changes during the time. So I can not just "repeat" a 4/4 midi event. The band needs playbacks for life use.

It would be so cool if we could just enable a checkbox "include metronome in audioexport" in the export window.

Yes!

Actually almost every production over here has the need for exporting some playbacks soon or later. Sometimes just exporting the pilot guitar with click for the drummer to practice - or in the end exporting playbacks with some additioal keys/sound for life. It is always a PITA to do this - instead of just doing an export and done.

If I look at the features of Cubase/Nuendo - great - but I still have to connect a cable to re-record 74 min in realtime just for the clicktrack?

And if I would be payed 10 bucks each time one of "my" bands are dropping me an email asking "well, so we now have prepared all the scratch tracks and tempo track, I am trying to export this for our drummer but the click is not in the mixdowns, I tried everything" - I would be rich.

No, I do not want to set up a midi track using a VSTi. No, I am not that oldschool that I will tell the band "what about just not using a click? Its way more rock n roll then". No my songs are not usually 4/4, 120 bpm 3,5 min duration.

Is there a solution in N6/C7?

Brandy
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Ian Livy » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:20 am

+1
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Brandy
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Brandy » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:19 am

I better post this in Cubase.. here are way to few music dudes around :-) Usually folks are scratching their had here when I write down things like that ;-)
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Chewy Papadopoulos
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:31 am

Brandy,

No head scratching...

We've been able to route click to a VSTi and export it since at least N4. I've been doing it for years... just tried it in N5 as well, and it works fine.

Make a VSTi with the sound you want, in the metronome setup window activate midi click and assign the VSTi, and route the VSTi to your main output (I'm not sure that step is actually necessary, but it's part of my setup) and it works. Only caveat is that you have to export in real time. But no cables...

Yes, it would be nice if we could do it at faster export speeds... maybe some day. But it definitely works.

Good luck,

Chewy
Last edited by Chewy Papadopoulos on Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DG
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by DG » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:42 am

The click function really needs updating. Even if it worked as designed, it really needs to be improved. for example all time signatures could have a properties window, where you could decide how many clicks, and what denomination they are (a bit like the beaming window in Sibelius). That way you could actually get a useful click track for other things than basic tracks.

I also think that there needs to be a facility for 2 different, overlapping tempo tracks, so that overlapping cues can be done easily. There are many other tiny, music related features that should be easy to program, as they are all based on simple maths, and I hope that now Steinberg has a proper notation team working for them, they will start to understand that musically literate people need features, as well as the illiterates. :lol:

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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Brandy » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:28 pm

Chewy Papadopoulos wrote:Brandy,

No head scratching...

We've been able to route click to a VSTi and export it since at least N4. I've been doing it for years... just tried it in N5 as well, and it works fine.

Make a VSTi with the sound you want, in the metronome setup window activate midi click and assign the VSTi, and route the VSTi to your main output (I'm not sure that step is actually necessary, but it's part of my setup) and it works. Only caveat is that you have to export in real time. But no cables...

Yes, it would be nice if we could do it at faster export speeds... maybe some day. But it definitely works.

Good luck,

Chewy
Well - that is exactly my workaround... using a VSTi and rerecording the output... But you might agree that it would be just 1000 times nicer to just be able to export the internal click, audio click, vsti click or whatever you use via the export menue... like any other stuff in the projekt...
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Brandy » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:33 pm

DG wrote:The click function really needs updating. Even if it worked as designed, it really needs to be improved. for example all time signatures could have a properties window, where you could decide how many clicks, and what denomination they are (a bit like the beaming window in Sibelius). That way you could actually get a useful click track for other things than basic tracks.

I also think that there needs to be a facility for 2 different, overlapping tempo tracks, so that overlapping cues can be done easily. There are many other tiny, music related features that should be easy to program, as they are all based on simple maths, and I hope that now Steinberg has a proper notation team working for them, they will start to understand that musically literate people need features, as well as the illiterates. :lol:

DG
VERY good points!!

Often a musician has problems and for example a manual programmed click with 8th can help... usually I set up a midi track then... at least for that part.

Regarding the tempo changes - when just doing punch ins you can use the precount. If you want some kind of a "real-time-precount" we still have to set up a midi track, switch the time basis (the button with the clock or the note) and copy some midi events from the new tempo over the old tempo (gives you a count in in the new tempo). But of course some more dedicated features would be great!

Brandy
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:01 pm

Brandy wrote: Well - that is exactly my workaround... using a VSTi and rerecording the output... But you might agree that it would be just 1000 times nicer to just be able to export the internal click, audio click, vsti click or whatever you use via the export menue... like any other stuff in the projekt...
It's possible you're not reading me as I intended. You said you had to use a cable and couldn't record from the MIDI click without making a MIDI track and re-recording it.

But I'm not describing re-recording the output. I'm talking about exporting the vsti click without making an extra track, just by doing a normal export with click turned on, as you ask, "like any other stuff in the project".

To me that sounds pretty much exactly what you're asking for. What am I missing?

Chewy

PS I do agree that 9 times out of 10 I'd prefer to just export the audio click (mostly the standard clicks I've imported from Digital Performer; why Nuendo doesn't include the option to do so, and at least a Urei click DOES have me scratching my head!) In the meantime, I've made a basic set of presets in Battery (will probably switch it over to GrooveAgent1 now that I'm on 5.5) that sets it all up with a minimum of fuss.
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Brandy » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:56 pm

Chewy Papadopoulos wrote:
But I'm not describing re-recording the output. I'm talking about exporting the vsti click without making an extra track, just by doing a normal export with click turned on, as you ask, "like any other stuff in the project".

To me that sounds pretty much exactly what you're asking for. What am I missing?
Well - sorry for not completely understanding this - the click is in the final wave when you use realtime-audioexport in combi with a vsti? When using the internal metronome (routed to the vsti in the metronome setting)?

This never worked over here - because for some reason the click disappears when exporting. But maybe i never tried realtime export... ?!

Brandy
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:14 am

Brandy wrote:This never worked over here - because for some reason the click disappears when exporting. But maybe i never tried realtime export... ?!
Try it in realtime. Don't know why it only works in realtime, but yes, it works. I promise!

Chewy
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Brandy » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:12 pm

Chewy Papadopoulos wrote:
Brandy wrote:This never worked over here - because for some reason the click disappears when exporting. But maybe i never tried realtime export... ?!
Try it in realtime. Don't know why it only works in realtime, but yes, it works. I promise!

Chewy
THANKS!!!

To bad I never checked this - I would guess that it will not work in any case because it does not work offline.
I always export stuff in realtime BUT when exporting play-alongs (usually just a few tracks) I always tried offline.

I will check this out!
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by StudioRay » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:42 am

Although this is a work around, I find it very convenient:

I have all my templates saved with an audio track of a quarter note click (snare side-stick) running the length of the template. It's just one hit, copy and pasted multiple times with the timebase set to "musical", so when I change the tempo of the track it changes with it. I can turn it into an 1/8th or 1/16 note click track in a few seconds via copy/paste/nudge. And obviously it can be exported with the file not needing to use realtime export.

Now it's true many times I never need the click for a session, so then I just delete the track. But having it sitting there muted has been a huge time saver a gazillion times over when a singer or instrumentalist suddenly decides (or I decide!) that they need a quick click track. I can turn it on with just one click, very quickly change volumes on it, mute it for any one portion or for multiple portions, or turn it off instantaneously.

Just my 2 cents.

Live long and prosper!
Ray
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by StudioRay » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:26 pm

Bredo wrote: With my favorite cowbell on it. As you know, we need more cowbell :D
Ah! Now why didn't I think of THAT!! Then EVERYONE will have more cowbell - we'll just mix it in and make it part of the song whether the client wants it or not!
Ray
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Brandy
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Brandy » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:07 am

StudioRay wrote:Although this is a work around, I find it very convenient:

I have all my templates saved with an audio track of a quarter note click (snare side-stick) running the length of the template. It's just one hit, copy and pasted multiple times with the timebase set to "musical", so when I change the tempo of the track it changes with it. I can turn it into an 1/8th or 1/16 note click track in a few seconds via copy/paste/nudge. And obviously it can be exported with the file not needing to use realtime export.

Now it's true many times I never need the click for a session, so then I just delete the track. But having it sitting there muted has been a huge time saver a gazillion times over when a singer or instrumentalist suddenly decides (or I decide!) that they need a quick click track. I can turn it on with just one click, very quickly change volumes on it, mute it for any one portion or for multiple portions, or turn it off instantaneously.

Just my 2 cents.

Live long and prosper!
Well, that is a good praxis!

But to be honest - often I just receive projects were I work on (mixing) and/or the projects are more complex.

A song in 4/4 with zero or only few tempo-changes is even later easy to set up (one bar of midi, repeat etc..)
I often have to deal with more complex tempotracks like you can see in the attached picture.. This is just round sounding music, played live for preproduction where I generated a tempotrack later because we have tons of keys and programming as well... Here it is just cool to use the internal click.

Ok, I would agree that it would not mind to spend extra 10 min to set up a midi or audiotrack after I spent 5 hours to work on the tempotrack, haha! But I have to say as well that the internal click routed to Halion is just fine for me usually. So why not using it :-) Here we could start the metronome discussion (regarding the 666 metronome issues of death) :lol: :lol:
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by Brandy » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:08 am

Oh, I forgot the picture:
mighty-tempotrack.jpg
(609.59 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by DG » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:59 am

StudioRay wrote:Although this is a work around, I find it very convenient:

I have all my templates saved with an audio track of a quarter note click (snare side-stick) running the length of the template. It's just one hit, copy and pasted multiple times with the timebase set to "musical", so when I change the tempo of the track it changes with it. I can turn it into an 1/8th or 1/16 note click track in a few seconds via copy/paste/nudge. And obviously it can be exported with the file not needing to use realtime export.

Now it's true many times I never need the click for a session, so then I just delete the track. But having it sitting there muted has been a huge time saver a gazillion times over when a singer or instrumentalist suddenly decides (or I decide!) that they need a quick click track. I can turn it on with just one click, very quickly change volumes on it, mute it for any one portion or for multiple portions, or turn it off instantaneously.

Just my 2 cents.

Live long and prosper!
Yes, that works, but it is not quite as quick as one click for me. It involves close VSTi window, scroll, tool change, click, tool change back open VSTi window. Hitting C is so much more convenient.

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Re: Including Clicktrack in audioexport

Post by StudioRay » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:52 pm

DG wrote:Hitting C is so much more convenient.DG
Yes it certainly is. I guess it depends on your established workflow. I usually don't need to tool change for it. And I often need to be able to mute the click for certain portions. For example if there's a breakdown in the middle of a song where a singer or instrumentalist needs to punch in, yet there's no discernible tempo, I can have the click come in for 4 clicks before their punch-in point and then immediately mute. Very convenient if it's a part that I'm going to be rewinding and doing over many times or looping while they practice. I often find that hitting C can be very inexact if I'm trying to get exactly 4 clicks.

By the way speaking of tool change, I programmed my most used ones into my mouse and am so glad I did - a HUGE workflow helper. I made a separate post about it here: http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopi ... 76&t=33026

Ray
Ray
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