CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

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istokblues
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CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by istokblues »

CUBASE is more and more advanced and there is no serious controller - and controller suport with more intergration and new options - I like to know can we expect something serious or we have to look at other no Steinberg solutions !??
Thank you !
istok

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by C.LYDE101 »

? You have checked the website? Nuage is pretty dang serious? It's not Nuendo only. .

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en ... ge/faq.jsp
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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by istokblues »

NUAGE is serious but this price point ( FADER + CONTROL + monitors + I-0 + DANTE card ) is about 20.000 € or more - i think about price under 5.000 € ( avid S3 controller or SSL NUCLEUS ) - 95 % of CUBASE user have no interes for a such HI-END products ( I think ?! ). NUAGE is designed for POST PRODUCTION - NUENDO !!!
istok

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by Svenne »

Steinberg really need to come up with an integrated controller with specs along the line of the upcoming Behringer X-Touch.
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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by ltf3 »

The Mackie MCU Pro control surfaces work Great for me!
Lee

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

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istokblues wrote:NUAGE is serious but this price point ( FADER + CONTROL + monitors + I-0 + DANTE card ) is about 20.000 € or more - i think about price under 5.000 € ( avid S3 controller or SSL NUCLEUS ) - 95 % of CUBASE user have no interes for a such HI-END products ( I think ?! ). NUAGE is designed for POST PRODUCTION - NUENDO !!!
You don't need the i/o or DANTE to operate the Nuage controller. I'd also assume you already have at least one monitor, so the additional cost isn't that bad since monitors are relatively cheap.

But I agree, something around 2-3000 would be a good price point I think.
Nuendo 10.3 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 2004 build 19041.450 / Ryzen 1700 3.6GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Radeon VII / ASUS x370-A mobo ::::: RX Post Production Suite 4 / DaVinci Resolve

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by istokblues »

Thank you for info Lydiot !
Yes - I agree with a price point you say !
istok

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

istokblues wrote:CUBASE is more and more advanced and there is no serious controller - and controller suport with more intergration and new options - I like to know can we expect something serious or we have to look at other no Steinberg solutions !??
Thank you !
i don't think it's happening, there is currently zero affinity to a potential cubase controller given the track record of the CMC. who would invest in something that's likely dropped from support in a year?
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by Svenne »

lukasbrooklyn wrote:
istokblues wrote:CUBASE is more and more advanced and there is no serious controller - and controller suport with more intergration and new options - I like to know can we expect something serious or we have to look at other no Steinberg solutions !??
Thank you !
i don't think it's happening, there is currently zero affinity to a potential cubase controller given the track record of the CMC. who would invest in something that's likely dropped from support in a year?
The problem with the CMC series was that they were a bit too expensive to attract Cubase Elements users (for which they appear aimed) and a bit much like toys to attract the professional users. There are pros that use individual modules, but I think none that use them as the main controllers.

The Nuage is a serious bit of kit. Too serious for most Cubase users. Anyway, If I had access to that kind of money, I think I'd rather go for an SSL Matrix2 (http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/matrix/). This seems to me to be more suited to music recording than the Nuage, which is designed for video post production audio. Both options are far out of my price range.

I am convinced that a Nuage Lite, with a price of €500-600, would be a great success for Steinberg.

As far as support goes. Cubase still supports the ancient Huston controller, so I don't think that that will be much of a concern.
Cubase Pro 8.5.20 + IC Pro, WaveLab Elements 9.0.30, Mac Pro 2.8GHz 8-core 8GB, 10.11.6 (El Capitan), MR 816X, Avid Control/Mix, iPad Air (128GB), Cubasis 2.0, iTrack Dock.

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

Svenne wrote:
lukasbrooklyn wrote:
istokblues wrote:CUBASE is more and more advanced and there is no serious controller - and controller suport with more intergration and new options - I like to know can we expect something serious or we have to look at other no Steinberg solutions !??
Thank you !
i don't think it's happening, there is currently zero affinity to a potential cubase controller given the track record of the CMC. who would invest in something that's likely dropped from support in a year?
The problem with the CMC series was that they were a bit too expensive to attract Cubase Elements users (for which they appear aimed) and a bit much like toys to attract the professional users. There are pros that use individual modules, but I think none that use them as the main controllers.

The Nuage is a serious bit of kit. Too serious for most Cubase users. Anyway, If I had access to that kind of money, I think I'd rather go for an SSL Matrix2 (http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/matrix/). This seems to me to be more suited to music recording than the Nuage, which is designed for video post production audio. Both options are far out of my price range.

I am convinced that a Nuage Lite, with a price of €500-600, would be a great success for Steinberg.

As far as support goes. Cubase still supports the ancient Huston controller, so I don't think that that will be much of a concern.
my issue with nuage and why I wouldn't buy it is, it's a serious piece of gear and engineering - and expensive at that, but it's still driving the same buggy daw. The broken macro system springs to mind as prime example. How the company spends this many resources on a controller and leaves unaddressed what looks in comparison like a quick fix is beyond me (and logic).
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by C.LYDE101 »

istokblues wrote:NUAGE is serious but this price point ( FADER + CONTROL + monitors + I-0 + DANTE card ) is about 20.000 € or more - i think about price under 5.000 € ( avid S3 controller or SSL NUCLEUS ) - 95 % of CUBASE user have no interes for a such HI-END products ( I think ?! ). NUAGE is designed for POST PRODUCTION - NUENDO !!!
This is where these discussions always lead... how serious is "serious"? Don't assume ... it opens yourself up to a bollicking.. 8-)

Maybe a different angle would be:

a) Controller required with price point $A <> $B

b) Essential functional control over Cubase functions such as 1) All mixer options excluding individual rack fx parameters (just an example)
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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by C.LYDE101 »

lukasbrooklyn wrote:
my issue with nuage and why I wouldn't buy it is, it's a serious piece of gear and engineering - and expensive at that, but it's still driving the same buggy daw. The broken macro system springs to mind as prime example. How the company spends this many resources on a controller and leaves unaddressed what looks in comparison like a quick fix is beyond me (and logic).

:roll: .... wow
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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by Svenne »

lukasbrooklyn wrote:my issue with nuage and why I wouldn't buy it is, it's a serious piece of gear and engineering - and expensive at that, but it's still driving the same buggy daw. The broken macro system springs to mind as prime example. How the company spends this many resources on a controller and leaves unaddressed what looks in comparison like a quick fix is beyond me (and logic).
If you think that Cubase is such a buggy piece of junk, what are you doing here? Why don't you switch to some other perfectly bugfree DAW? Whatever it is. I don't know.
Cubase Pro 8.5.20 + IC Pro, WaveLab Elements 9.0.30, Mac Pro 2.8GHz 8-core 8GB, 10.11.6 (El Capitan), MR 816X, Avid Control/Mix, iPad Air (128GB), Cubasis 2.0, iTrack Dock.

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

Svenne wrote:
lukasbrooklyn wrote:my issue with nuage and why I wouldn't buy it is, it's a serious piece of gear and engineering - and expensive at that, but it's still driving the same buggy daw. The broken macro system springs to mind as prime example. How the company spends this many resources on a controller and leaves unaddressed what looks in comparison like a quick fix is beyond me (and logic).
If you think that Cubase is such a buggy piece of junk, what are you doing here? Why don't you switch to some other perfectly bugfree DAW? Whatever it is. I don't know.
i like it. the fact people point out flaws means they are concerned and they care about the product. that shows involvement and is much better than just leaving for a competitor's product.
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by Svenne »

lukasbrooklyn wrote:
Svenne wrote:
lukasbrooklyn wrote:my issue with nuage and why I wouldn't buy it is, it's a serious piece of gear and engineering - and expensive at that, but it's still driving the same buggy daw. The broken macro system springs to mind as prime example. How the company spends this many resources on a controller and leaves unaddressed what looks in comparison like a quick fix is beyond me (and logic).
If you think that Cubase is such a buggy piece of junk, what are you doing here? Why don't you switch to some other perfectly bugfree DAW? Whatever it is. I don't know.
i like it. the fact people point out flaws means they are concerned and they care about the product. that shows involvement and is much better than just leaving for a competitor's product.
Then, if you have a specific problem, make a post where you describe it. Someone may come up with a solution. General ranting, that Cubase is buggy, just makes you look silly.

Yes, Cubase has it's bugs, but so does every other piece of software under the sun. Cubase is no buggier than any other piece of software. If you adopt X.0 versions of any software, you'd have to expect bugs. That's just the nature of things.

If you really like Cubase, as you claim, then stop dissing it and start contributing relevant information to help improve it.
Cubase Pro 8.5.20 + IC Pro, WaveLab Elements 9.0.30, Mac Pro 2.8GHz 8-core 8GB, 10.11.6 (El Capitan), MR 816X, Avid Control/Mix, iPad Air (128GB), Cubasis 2.0, iTrack Dock.

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by girlili »

hopefully in 2015, the new upcoming cmc-like controllers will be a bit cheaper, will allow more customization, will have more buttons, and will have more functions (F1, F2, F3.. buttons). the cmc-ai had all that free space on the top, that could have had 4 extra Function buttons. Again, the cmc-AI, with a simple Shift button, people would have 2 times more buttons, 2 times more Function buttons. all that, with a simple shift button.
also, the cmc-qc or cmc-ch, any of the rotary knobs could have worked like the big AI knob on the cmc-AI model, but hey, there had to be some reasons to buy the AI model. but because of this and that...

too bad the old cmc were designed so it always lacked this or that little feature/function, feature that would always be present on another model.. and another model.. and so on and so on.

i hesitate getting a cmc-tp now, or waiting a few months until the new cmc models come out. i would happily pay for a controller, that would have the AI + QC + CH + TP controls, on the same device. all buttons and everything would be in the same place, accessible, no need to have an usb hub, with all the controllers here and there.

can't wait to see the first pictures of the new upcoming cmc devices :)

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by Svenne »

girlili wrote:can't wait to see the first pictures of the new upcoming cmc devices
Where have seen that there is a new CMC series coming?

Does Steinberg really intend to repeat the mistake (instead of designing a proper controller)?
Cubase Pro 8.5.20 + IC Pro, WaveLab Elements 9.0.30, Mac Pro 2.8GHz 8-core 8GB, 10.11.6 (El Capitan), MR 816X, Avid Control/Mix, iPad Air (128GB), Cubasis 2.0, iTrack Dock.

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by girlili »

Svenne wrote:
girlili wrote:can't wait to see the first pictures of the new upcoming cmc devices
Where have seen that there is a new CMC series coming?

Does Steinberg really intend to repeat the mistake (instead of designing a proper controller)?


i haven't seen... i was told.
believe me... in 2015, we will be able to buy some new cool cmc-like controllers 8-)



the cmc series could have been a fantastic product EVERY SINGLE DAW-CUBASE lover would have bought.
unfortunately, not only they were quite expensive, but the biggest problem was, they were designed so people would have to buy several different units. "ok, on this cmc, we only put 4 function keys, and this and that feature, we move to another cmc. then, on this unit, we only give this or that feature, but to perform 1 or 2 actions, people will need to buy a different cmc. on this one (CMC-AI), we won't put a shift button and add 4 extra Function buttons on the top, because it would be too much versatile, so, let's remove this and that function, so people have to buy the extra cmc unit. then, on this cmc, let's not give access to this or that feature, so people have to buy this or that cmc unit." and so on and so on...

too bad. at half the price (hey, in Asia, with 100 euros, one can almost buy 2 ipads, with tons of technologies... so, for a small slab of plastic, with no displays or whatsoever, with just a simple pcb with a few knobs, 100 euros for a CMC unit, it was just too expensive), people would probably buy 3 or 4 cmc units. but because one would need at least 2-3 units, to have enough possibilities and features , it makes +350 euros for 3 units alone. that's quite expensive.

i am sure I, or most people here on this forum, we could grab photoshop, and in 30 minutes, we would draw a prototype for a controller, that would have the 8 knobs on the top, for the quick controls, 8 knobs under the first raw, to control PAN, Q, slope, 16 pads on the left or right, another 8 or 16 knobs on the left or right, to control other things, an horizontal ribbon like the CMC-TP, a vertical fader, with the options of the cmc-CH + fader level display, a bunch of buttons to control different things, show-hide panels, etc, + a bunch of [F]unction buttons, with 3 shift buttons, we would have access to 4x the function buttons (normal Functions + Shift 1 + button, + Shift 2 + buttons, + shift 3+ buttons). we would have like 30-50 possible functions we could activate, just by pressing the Function button, or by pressing shift 1 + button, shift 2 or shift 3.
and finally, we would have a bigger knob, to act as the AI button.

i am sure we would have a controller with all those buttons and knobs, on a surface like 2-2.5 times the size of a CMC unit.
for me, it would be like a dream. most CMC features in ONE single place and unit, tons of Function buttons to assign plenty of shortcuts, a fader(ribbon) + transport ribbons, with leds to show the level of the current channel, , and at the bottom, we could even have a blue display, that would show the name of the parameter being used or changed, whether it was a quick control, a value on a plugin or vsti, + its value.

THIS IS the controller i would build. maybe the design wouldn't win a prize, but at least, i would have all the knobs and buttons to control most cubase features, on a single controller.

but NO. why making such controller, with everything people need, when we can take all those features and functions, and spread them over 6+ cmc units ?

DAMN, it's not that HARD, designing a great controller for cubase and other daw's. we just need to stop focusing solely on the benefit and how much $ we will make with each unit, and instead, imagine we are a "standard" user, and how much features we would like to have on a controller, and how much we would be ready to pay for it.

i will try to make a mockup on photoshop of my ideal cmc-like controller, and post it here, if i don't get banned for saying we will have new CMC stuff, in 2015.

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by Svenne »

girlili wrote:
Svenne wrote:
girlili wrote:can't wait to see the first pictures of the new upcoming cmc devices
Where have seen that there is a new CMC series coming?

Does Steinberg really intend to repeat the mistake (instead of designing a proper controller)?


i haven't seen... i was told.
Told by who?
girlili wrote: believe me...
Why? Are you part of the Steinberg development team?
Cubase Pro 8.5.20 + IC Pro, WaveLab Elements 9.0.30, Mac Pro 2.8GHz 8-core 8GB, 10.11.6 (El Capitan), MR 816X, Avid Control/Mix, iPad Air (128GB), Cubasis 2.0, iTrack Dock.

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

Svenne wrote: Yes, Cubase has it's bugs, but so does every other piece of software under the sun. Cubase is no buggier than any other piece of software. If you adopt X.0 versions of any software, you'd have to expect bugs. That's just the nature of things.

If you really like Cubase, as you claim, then stop dissing it and start contributing relevant information to help improve it.
ot, but since you bring it up.. macros (which i mentioned as a broken feature in this thread and sparked the conversation) have been broken since i started using nuendo 3 -- that was 2004 i think? so it's been a decade. users including myself have reported this repeatedly, and for the current cubase iteration this has been reported in the relevant section as well. i understand your sentiment and agree: i try to properly file most of these, even though unfortunately it's often water off a duck's back.
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

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girlili wrote:i haven't seen... i was told.
believe me... in 2015, we will be able to buy some new cool cmc-like controllers 8-)
Told by whom?

There are a couple of problems with this plan, if it indeed is true;

Firstly, they'd be smart to announce that it's coming. Yes they'd possibly lose some current-CMC sales, but they could just discount the stuff since it's essentially e-o-l anyway. The issue here is that Behringer is coming out with a Mackie clone for a very reasonable price, so better get ahead of that so that people won't go investing in that unit rather than a new CMC. But then again, I have absolutely no hopes of them announcing that something is coming ahead of time. Timo certainly didn't care to reply to simple pre-sales questions regarding the CMC and chose to reply with sarcasm instead, leading me to buy something else at the time. For a company that has to make a profit they seem curiously not interested in selling software and hardware.

Secondly, who'd buy this new CMC knowing that the last version was manufactured for such a short time? How long this time? Will it end up on the heap just like the old one, Houston and other devices after just a few years?

I'm not holding my breath on this one.

PS: btw - if they indeed are making a new version(s), the smart thing would have been to poll the users on what features they'd like to see... and I've seen nothing of the kind... leading me to wonder just what kind of design we could expect...
Nuendo 10.3 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 2004 build 19041.450 / Ryzen 1700 3.6GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Radeon VII / ASUS x370-A mobo ::::: RX Post Production Suite 4 / DaVinci Resolve

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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by girlili »

sometimes, i wish i just could sit in front of some CEO, like Steinberg, Sony, etc, and ask them "why aren't you doing this and this and this, goddamit???"

Steinberg is the inventor of the VST standard. they should be AHEAD of the competition, by a huge margin, in most domains.


Just like Apple didn't want to support Flash, in order not to be dependent on someone or something they don't master at 100%,
Protools and their AAX standard, they want to get rid of the vst format.

Apple, they give a huge F uck you to all pc users (if we don't buy any apple product, then, we can go f uck ourselves, they don't have the smallest consideration for us, as humans, as consumers), and they do their Logic X for apple only. *ok, you want logic X ? get a mac, or go f uck yourself*. this is the message from apple to all people, all companies, and devs, who strived to code their apps to OSX. you don't have a mac device, you don't want to be another indoctrinated enslaved person, who will need to buy all the apple devices and ecosystem, so everything works ? no mac, no Logic X. and f uck yourself and your vst standard, from now on, it's audio units for everybody, or nothing at all.

what is the next big company to stop supporting the vst standard ?

i am doing a .doc document, i'm close to almost 100 ideas for cubase, to improve its interface, functions, features, important missing features, etc. and i don't use and watch other daws, so i don't copy anything i've see somewhere.

there are just sooo many things Steinberg could do.

tons of people are already using 1440p monitors, after ditching the 2 or 3-monitor setup, and keep just one. next step, is 4k.

i would like to sit in front of Steinberg devs and CEO, and ask them:
"what are you waiting for, to make Cubase Scallable-resizable, so people can use cubase on their 1440p or 4k monitors, without using a magnifying glass? have you noticed that 1440p on a 27" monitor, or 4k on a 28-32" monitor, cubase stops being usable, as all captions, all windows, are as small as a postal stamp ?"

Steinberg, if you read this, what are you waiting for, to allow cubase users to resize their windows, their plugin windows, so everything is nice and visible, on the screen ? WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR ?

if i WERE STEINBERG, i would evolve the VST 3.5 standard, to 4 or bigger, and would INVENT a new GUI for plugins.
DEVELOPERS, plugin makers, they would make a standard plugin GUI, with nice textures, etc, to please the eyes, and EMBEDDED on the plugin, they would make a VECTOR version of the plugin, with simple vectorized buttons, faders, displays, captions.

THEN, THE VST 4 standard, WOULD HANDLE THAT, and as a result, CUBASE USERS would BE ABLE to build a quick and SIMPLE GUI for this or that plugin-instrument, with vectorized components that STEINBERG WOULD PROVIDE.
ex:, a bunch of knobs and different colors, a bunch of faders, a bunch of leds, a bunch of displays, a bunch of text areas, etc, ALL with plenty of colors available as starting ideas, but users could customize, if they want a black background on the main GUI, with some red faders and green knowbs, at 50, 100-200 pixels big, WELL, THEY COULD DO IT.

DEVELOPERS WOULD ALSO create some VECTORIZED components for their plugin-instrument, that people could then use, customize, or use other knobs, sliders, etc, from STEINBERG or other plugin makers.


THIS WAY, IF I WANT TO USE a, say, cubase compressor, with its standard GUI, i can.
IF I WANT TO QUICKLY CREATE a VECTORIZED GUI, put some colorized knobs, use a different font, and use a texture as background color-texture, I COULD DO IT.
and BECAUSE IT WOULD BE VECTORIZED, I COULD USE A 4K MONITOR, AND MAKE MY PLUGIN WINDOWS 300-500-1000 pixels BIG, TO FIT MY NEEDS.


MORE AND MORE PEOPLE will use 1440p - 4K - dual-triple 4K monitor setups, in the future. BUT NOT IN 25 years. NO.
YESTEDAY, TODAY and TOMORROW, PEOPLE are already doing it.

STEINBERG, you NEED TO MAKE A NEW VST 4.0 STANDARD, and MAKE THIS VECTOR FEATURE, for all vst plugins and instruments.

i feel like flying to GERMANY, to STeinberg HQ, going straight to their directors-ceo-chiefs MEETING, grabbing a CHAIR, and telling them THIS I JUST WROTE.

AGAIN, STEINBERG (i know, using capital letters is not nice), WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR, to upgrade your VST standard to 4.0 or above, and integrate this VECTOR thing i just described ? WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR ?

DO YOU WANT TO START LOSING CUSTOMERS BECAUSE THEY HAVE FOUND A DAW THAT ALLOWS SCALLING THE INTERFACE AND MAKING THE PLUGINS-INSTRUMENTS GUI BIGGER, and therefore, USABLE, unlike CUBASE, where everything is so small, and 1440p or 4k monitors, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO WORK AND SEE WHAT'S ON THE SCREEN ?

DAMN, STEINBERG, you have invented the VST, you almost invented music composition on a computer. you SHOULD be having ideas and creating news things that THE COMPETITION will only do in 5 or 10 years.
you OWN the VST standard, you can ADD and IMPROVE THINGS WHENEVER YOU WANT.
¨WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING ?
do you want me to send you an email, explaining how this vector thing should work ?
do you want me to explain you how this "DOUBLE" interface DEVS would be doing, wouldn't change a thing, if ONE DON'T WANT TO CHANGE A THING, but for those who would like to create a BIGGER PLUGIN WINDOW-GUI for their plugin-plugins, with simple VECTORIZED knobs and sliders and other components, THEN, PEOPLE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT.

JUST THINK ABOUT THIS FEATURE:
imagine a DJ, who is performing live.

instead of having cubase running, or a VSTHOST, with a small tiny window, that he is controlling during his live SET,

the DJ could MAKE a nice LIGHT INTERFACE for, SAY, RETROLOGUE, with a black backgroud, and only 4 or 5 knobs and sliders HE IS GOING TO NEED AND USE, he could then maximize that window he build, and on the screen, instead of having a RETROLOGUE classic GUI, with tons of knobs, sliders, etc, HE WOULD HAVE a BIG WINDOW, with only the 4 or 5 components from Retrologue that is is going to use, and those vectorized components could easily be midi-mapped, for an even faster workflow.

he could build 2 or 3 interfaces for Retrologue, 1 with cutoff, resonance, volume, modulation 1 and 2 values, that he would save as a GUI preset. then, he could have a second GUI preset, this time, he has only an Oscillator type knob, a LFO1 modulation knob, and 4 filter knobs (ADSR). big yellow knobs, texts in red, values in blue, and background color in dark grey.

STEINBERG, IF YOU READ THIS, this isn't bashing you or whatever.
this is a message to make you REALIZE you CAN DO FANTASTIC THINGS FOR CUBASE-NUENDO users, BUT YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING, or little.

I have invested in cubase sx 1, 2, 3. then, i bought cubase 7, 7.5 and now pro 8. i bought reason 7, in december 2013, but barely use it, because i find proppeler.. rack extension business model a real shame.

I, just like tens thousands others, WE WANT cubase to be THE BEST DAW, with more and more useful features on each version, features that no other daw has.

again, i wish i could be in one of your meetings, and talk, as a user, as someone who sees cubase from a different angle than you.
yesterday, i received a poll, on my email. about what i think about plugins, etc, and which things i would like to see.
i started doing it, i wrote several pages with ideas and complaints, but after 2 hours, i closed the whole window and stopped. you know why ? because i am sure pretty much nobody will ever read all those ideas and comments on that poll. datamining apps will analyse everything a create fantastic excel graphs, but all the ideas, suggestions, etc, nobody will read it, and if they read it, no way dozens thousands of suggestions and complaints will be taken into account.

there are hundreds of things that cubase could have, from complex to simple features, that would certainly help people.
for example, i wish i had a big button on the top, some kind of red cross, like the "delete" icon on windows 8 explorer, or any other icon, where could simply drag and drop something on it, to delete an element.

ex, if i want to delete an event, some midi data, or any other elements, i need so select them, right click, delete. or select, right click, contextuel menu, choose eraser tool, aim and click on the elements i want to delete.
or i can select some items, than, with my left hand, i click on my keyboard and use the "delete" shortcut"

MAN, it would be SO SO SIMPLE, if i could simply drag any element, to the top, under the main menu, over a "delete" icon, and by dragging and dropping the different elements on that icon, it would automatically perform a "delete". no contextual menus, shortcuts, sub menus, left clicks, right clicks, etc, to delete a simple element:
just drag it and drop it on an icon on the top of the window.

i am sure 90% of cubase users would use and like such feature. it would be just soooo great and fast, to delete elements, just using the mouse and dragging those elements over that delete icon.

CAN YOU DO IT, STEINBERG ?

i have like +100 ideas like this, and could easily reach 200, 300, 500 ideas. if only steinberg would listen.

DAMN, i want cubase to be even more perfect. is there a problem with it ?
will i get banned for my big comment ?
will anyone from Steinberg even read my comment, and i mean someone who actually decides, chooses which features should be or not, on x version, or actually codes... ? my comment... and all the others, the tons of ideas people submit...

lukasbrooklyn
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Posts: 1049
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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

girlili: everyone has a 100 ideas including myself. that's the easy part. making it a cohesive daw that follows a certain inner logic, has a clear direction and is systemic is the hard part that steinberg are struggling at.
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

girlili
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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by girlili »

lukasbrooklyn wrote:girlili: everyone has a 100 ideas including myself. that's the easy part. making it a cohesive daw that follows a certain inner logic, has a clear direction and is systemic is the hard part that steinberg are struggling at.

I wonder if Steinberg can really do everything they want, being "under" Yamaha.

We all know the famous German quality: i could list 50 different activities, brands, they're always the best, or among the best in the world.
No matter which product is, it's always future-proof, sturdy, and great quality. Even a "cheap" brand like Behringer, who manage to sell lots of hardware at really great prices, even cheap, they probably are better than most material from other brands, even if it costs 2 or 3 times more.

in one side, we have a German company: they want to sell as much as they can, they want to innovate, they want to invest, they want to sell cheaper, but reach 2-3 times more customers, they want to have more products, to reach other people-customers, they want to be the number one, and are ready to smash anybody or anything, with a tank, to reach their goals.

and on the other side, there is a Japanese company, a country that is often associated to "moderation", "conservator", "lots of thinking before acting", etc etc.


that's why i wonder if somehow, Steinberg is 100% free, when it's time for some big decisions, designing new products, targeting new markets or new people, setting prices, etc etc.

Maybe the Japanese guys are more like "ok, Steinberg team, let's not take too many risks.... let's not have too many products... let's focus more on our main apps... let's not spend our resources on hardware, and let's rather put everybody on cubase-nuendo development... let's not lower the price, to keep the same revenues as last year.... we shouldn't use this or that feature on our cubase app, because X or Y daw already has it, and our code of honor doesn't let us copy other guys work-features, even if that will mean for cubase users that they won't be able to have this or that absolutely necessary function... let's not mess customers with too many updates, so the app doesn't look like it's broken, and instead, let's only release 1 or 2 updates between each .5 update.... let's take several years to create our own apps and save a few Euros, instead of buying an existing great 3rd party plugin, like Voxengo Curve EQ....let's make the app like this or that, let's give it this or that appearance and layout, because that's the way how all the apps look like, in Japan........ etc etc.

maybe Steinberg, if they were the ones who actually DECIDED (maybe Yamaha gives them that freedom..i don't know), probably Cubase would be different, would have many other features, maybe there would be other hardware devices, not only controllers and audio cards, but other devices...maybe the price would be different.... etc etc...

for example, cubase inherits lots of ideas from nuendo. ok, Steinberg needs the Nuendo brand so there is a more "PRO" app, for the big guys, those who work with video, etc etc.
my opinion, i think it is a lot of energy and ressources spent for nothing.
i would prefer seeing all the Steinberg staff working on cubase, and ditching nuendo.
yes. only one version of cubase (which looks like nuendo at 90%). only one version of cubase for everybody, and the extra features Nuendo has, they would be sold as separate plugins and features, for cubase.

this way, if i am a regular guy or a bedroom composer, i will buy Cubase Pro 8. If i am a Zimmer guy, and need some advanced features, more video features, etc, for my movie scores, i will simply purchase a few features-plugin packs, that will unlock-add some features in cubase.

instead of (maybe) having 2 separate teams, working on cubase and nuendo, spending tons of cash and resources on 2 apps, updates, patches, bugs, etc, THERE WOULD ONLY BE ONE CUBASE VERSION, with some advanced video-audio features locked, that people could unlock, by buying some plugin packs.

this way, no more nuendo bugs and cubase bugs. no more 2 manuals to maintain up to date, no more decisions *ok, this feature, we put it on nuendo, and this feature, on cubase*, no more 2 different drivers updates, etc etc.

EVERYTHING would be in ONLY 1 CUBASE version. those who need it, they purchase the advanced features-plugins. otherwise, everybody is working on cubase. with all that extra people, JUST IMAGINE, guys, there would be more time for coding new features, new plugins, new instruments, etc etc, and cubase could even receive a 8.25, 8.75 update, with some bug corrections + some new little but cool features.

i think things would be so much easy, more simple to manage and handle, and Steinberg could invent some great new standards and features, just like +20 years ago.

one single app, one single app to code, debug and manage. Artist, Pro, Advanced: one single cubase app for the 3 versions, simply with some locked-invisible features, from one version the other.
do you remember the windows 7, with the 1000 versions, starter, starter light, medium-medium ligth-semi pro-medium pro, more pro than pro, not yet advanced, quite advanced, really advanced... wow

"Nuendo" line isn't necessary to sell a product to some kind of users. what people are buying, is a Steinberg product, with the Steinberg quality. that's all that matters. nuendo, cubase, nuendo ++, proendo, superbase...
people don't care about it.

what people want is buying a steinberg product, instead of ableton, pro tools or cakewalk. no matter how the app is called, what people want is a steinberg product.
Would a huge holywood composer stop using a Steinberg product, if it wasn't called Nuendo, anymore ?
what if tomorrow, instead of Nuendo, there is a Cubase Pro 8 + advanced features pack, that people will be able to buy and use, like they use nuendo ? will they care if it is called nuendo or cubase ?
no.
all they want is:
a steinberg daw that let them do this, this and that audio-video function. whether it is called nuendo or Cubase Pro 8 Advanced, that big composer will still buy it.

if i won 100 million euros, the first thing i would try to do is buying Steinberg, and make a Cubase version with so many many great features, tons of features no daw has, bundled with some great sample libraries, and some of the best plugins (all voxengo stuff, or all Flux plugins, or all Soundtoys plugins, even if i had to reduce ~50 euros from the profits i would make with Cubase). Cubase has +50 plugins, but around 40 of them, are old simple tremolo-trance-vibrato-etc plugins, 10-15 years old, that even the interface hasn't evolved.
Cubase really needs some great plugin suite, so people can say "wow, just spent 600 euros on cubase pro, but take a look at these incredible Flux/soundtoys/Voxengo/blue cat audio/etc.

Steinberg, if you read this, why don't you make a great deal with U-He, and integrate one of their synths or plugins ? everybody loves u-he stuff, i am sure cubase would become really interesting for many people, if cubase came with a nice u-he vst plugin. Why not asking u-he, for them to create 2 or 3 new plugins-effects, exclusive to cubase ? maybe a nice new delay-ensemble-phaser effect ? or maybe a new arpeggiator, that would have the best features from Kirnu cream,thesys, omnisphere-synthmaster-zebra arpeggiators, and would be THE ULTIMATE arpeggiator-sequencer tool, for edm. ? Cubase seriously lacks a nice complete arpeggiator. and i would re-code halion 6, to make it developer-friendly, like kontakt, and would ask 20-30,50 sound designers or companies, to create tons of new halion 6 libraries.

So, is Steinberg totally free, and can do whatever they want, or are they limited by Yamaha, who probably don't really understand the DAW market and public ?

Svenne
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Re: CMC - discontinued and IC PRO no update !?

Post by Svenne »

girlili wrote:
lukasbrooklyn wrote:girlili: everyone has a 100 ideas including myself. that's the easy part. making it a cohesive daw that follows a certain inner logic, has a clear direction and is systemic is the hard part that steinberg are struggling at.
in one side, we have a German company: they want to sell as much as they can, they want to innovate, they want to invest, they want to sell cheaper, but reach 2-3 times more customers, they want to have more products, to reach other people-customers, they want to be the number one, and are ready to smash anybody or anything, with a tank, to reach their goals.
Well, actually history proves you wrong! Steinberg is just as innovative as they were before Yamaha "took over", and the price of Cubase has actually lowered.

Steinbergs customer relations has deteriorated constantly, but that started long, long before Yamaha came into the picture.
Cubase Pro 8.5.20 + IC Pro, WaveLab Elements 9.0.30, Mac Pro 2.8GHz 8-core 8GB, 10.11.6 (El Capitan), MR 816X, Avid Control/Mix, iPad Air (128GB), Cubasis 2.0, iTrack Dock.

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