Questions recommendation 32fp

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wavelab fan
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Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by wavelab fan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:46 pm

If I record in Wavelab 8.5 at 24bit 44.1khz and saved the file. Do I have to record the file over if I wanted it to be 32fp 44.1khz or can I simply change the settings from 24bit to 32fp in the window bottom right?

Will that be the same as if I originally recorded at 32fp?

I have to use the stereo expander and EBU-R128 for processing sometimes so should I keep doing what I was originally doing which is record at 24bit 44.1khz then use SE/EBU-R128?

Should I change the settings of the already recorded 24bit file to 32fp then procssess with SE/ EBU-R128?

Or should I re-record the file with 32fp enabled?

I noticed 32fp is highlighted in the record settings menu and in the main load out window bottom right corner.

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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by Arjan P » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:21 pm

You'll have to check what the bit resolution of the audio interface is. Most are at max 24 bit, so if that's how you record, there's no advantage in changing the file to 32fp. The only possible advantage to saving a file at 32fp after processing, is when you know there will be more processing in the future.

If you already are at the end product, don't forget to use dither when saving at lower bitrates than 32fp - also when the file is 24 bit to begin with. This, because internally WL always uses 32fp.
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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by wavelab fan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:36 pm

So do you recommend I keep doing what I was originally which is record at 24bit 44.1khz than process with SE/EBU-R128?

or

re-record with 32fp enabled?

I think its dithering when you change a recorded 32pb file to 24bit in the bottom right window. Thats kind of confusing too. Why is there a dithering option in master section when you can simply change the sample rate of the file in the bottom right corner.

I use a lynx hilo thunderbolt. I also have a 32bit ADC but there is no way to get that resolution into wavelab unless it was modded with a USB output, I think.

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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by Arjan P » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:39 pm

Yeah, I would say keep recording at 24 bit, but as you process with the SE, internally Wavelab uses 32 fp bit. Therefor, when you save as 24 bit again (if that's what you want) you need to use dither. Changing the file properties in the RH corner does not change the actual bit depth of the file!

Is there a reason you want the files to be 32fp?
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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by wavelab fan » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:30 am

I think you explained something that accidentally came out wrong? If I have a recorded in wavelab 24bit file saved and decide to use StereoExpander/EBU-R128 then save it again that file will still be 24bit. I don't need to dither the file.

Also changing the file properties (bottom right window) of a recorded and saved 24 bit file does change the bit depth. I changed a 24bit file to 32fp saved then closed that file. Looked at the file's info and it showed it was 32fp bit and I couldn't convert that file to some codecs used by dbpoweramp or drag the file to iTunes.

I have no reason to use 32fp just want to make sure I'm recording in wavelab with the recommended settings. 32fp is highlighted in record window and also in file properties window.

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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by Arjan P » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:31 pm

wavelab fan wrote:I think you explained something that accidentally came out wrong? If I have a recorded in wavelab 24bit file saved and decide to use StereoExpander/EBU-R128 then save it again that file will still be 24bit. I don't need to dither the file.
The point is, that by applying the Stereo Expander you are going from 24 bit to 32fp because that's how WL works internally. That's why dithering is recommended to go back to 24 bit and save the file.
wavelab fan wrote:Also changing the file properties (bottom right window) of a recorded and saved 24 bit file does change the bit depth. I changed a 24bit file to 32fp saved then closed that file. Looked at the file's info and it showed it was 32fp bit
Yes, it will change the bit depth but nothing is done to the file except adding zeroes, so basically the information is still contained in the 24 bits (it works a bit different with floating point, but let's leave that aside). Also, if you change the properties from 24 to 16 bits, the lower 8 bits are simply cut off (trunctated). Not recommended to work that way.
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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by bob99 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:09 pm

wavelab fan wrote: Looked at the file's info and it showed it was 32fp bit and I couldn't convert that file to some codecs used by dbpoweramp or drag the file to iTunes.
wavelab fan, I don't understand where you're seeing the drag 24/32 difference happen, because 32 bit float WAV files drag fine here from Windows Explorer and Mac Finder to the iTunes icon and to iTunes playlists.

Where is it you can't drag 32fp to iTunes from? Dragging from Wavelab?

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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by wavelab fan » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:33 pm

[/quote] wavelab fan, I don't understand where you're seeing the drag 24/32 difference happen, because 32 bit float WAV files drag fine here from Windows Explorer and Mac Finder to the iTunes icon and to iTunes playlists.

Where is it you can't drag 32fp to iTunes from? Dragging from Wavelab?[/quote]

It works for me. I meant to say a wavpak codec file wasn't dragging and dropping in iTunes not the 32bit wav.

[/quote]
The point is, that by applying the Stereo Expander you are going from 24 bit to 32fp because that's how WL works internally. That's why dithering is recommended to go back to 24 bit and save the file.
[/quote]

When I render a 24bit saved file in the master section with SE/EBU-R128 its showing that the file is still 24bit after rendering. Maybe your talking about something else?

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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by Arjan P » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:40 am

wavelab fan wrote:When I render a 24bit saved file in the master section with SE/EBU-R128 its showing that the file is still 24bit after rendering. Maybe your talking about something else?
Try using the bitmeter. It will show exactly what goes on - flip the SE on and off during real time playback and you will see a change from 24 to 32 or vice versa.
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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by wavelab fan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:32 am

Arjan, after I render a 24 bit file with stereo expander. Then play the file its showing the file is still 24 bit in bitmeter window and audio properties window. Can you please explain what exactly you are talking about?

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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by Arjan P » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:08 am

OK here goes again: during processing the file becomes 32fp because that's the internal format used by WL. That's why you need to add dither in the process to the final 24bit format. (please check my previous post and see for yourself during real-time playback on the bitmeter)
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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by wavelab fan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:08 am

I read that and I'm trying to figure out what it is your trying to explain. After I render a file with SE and play back while turning SE off and on the file is always 24bit in bitmeter. Why Should I dither when the file is already 24bit? If I render it seems its going to 32bit float for processing and automatically changing back to 24bit for me.

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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by Arjan P » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:10 pm

OK for bit meter reading, see manual p.479. The 'Below' indication shows 'more than 24 bits'. For more info on dithering, see Bob Katz's Digital Domain, http://www.digido.com.
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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by wavelab fan » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:21 am

Thanks, I finally get it now. Thats some crucial information I needed to know. Would there be a difference in quality recording with 32bit float, processing/dither. vs 24bit, processing/dither in wavelab? I just use SE/EBU-R128 sometimes for tape transfers. Not to make the files sound really loud just try to make some songs on the tape match each other better.

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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by Arjan P » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:25 pm

I personally think recording in 32fp is unnecessary, especially since almost all audio interfaces only go up to 24 bits, so you end up with bigger file sizes without extra audio data. As an intermediate format 32fp can sometimes be useful - if you have further processing plans for the audio later on.
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Re: Questions recommendation 32fp

Post by wavelab fan » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:48 pm

Those codecs were working that I was dragging into iTunes. The files were being stored where I couldn't see em.

I think I'm getting better results dithering from 24Bit to 16Bit in wavelab before ripping to apple lossless instead of ripping from 24bit to apple lossless. The lossless files sound more clear now.. Maybe its placebo.

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