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Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:25 am
by twelvetwelve
Yes please. By all means break backwards compatibility if it means an improved channel strip EQ. 6.x broke so much other functionality that what's an EQ in the scheme of things.

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:50 am
by TimoWildenhain
Hello,

thank you very much for this valuable and objective discussion. This is exactly the type of conversation that
makes it possible for us to "follow". There is hardly a "wrong" or "right" in this discussion. As Chewy said, it very
much depends on the material you get and also the way you work.

Fredo is right when he says that this is a major task and other features need to be taken off the roadmap to
get this one done. Therefore it's of major importance to know HOW important this feature is for your daily workflow.

Thanks,
Timo

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:40 am
by fenderchris
It is not vitally important to me, but I think it should be very important to Steinberg. If you really want to get more Post facilities using Nuendo you need to provide features that make it irresistible to them. Nuendo is not cheap, but it is aimed at Post, so it should contain the features that such facilities commonly need.

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:14 pm
by Big K
Not interested, not needed, here.
Give us surround encoding back, instead...
Else .. see my words on page uno.

R.

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:58 pm
by Dog and Pony
Fredo is right when he says that this is a major task and other features need to be taken off the roadmap to
get this one done. Therefore it's of major importance to know HOW important this feature is for your daily workflow.
I suppose that would depend on the roadmap, any chance of letting us know what's on it? I love the idea of this EQ but there are other things I'd love to see first like the ability to leave Process plugins open until I'm ready to close them. John.

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:15 pm
by C.LYDE101
:roll: does PT not handle the channel EQ as a plugin? So by definition any 7 band eq would suffice? Of course parameters must be linked to hardware... not instantaneous solution, but doable ...

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:15 pm
by Domilik
This is one of the little things which I would like to see in Nuendo (as a post-daw) compared to cubase (not saying, that cubase should'nt get one).

I've been on many (movie) dubbing sessions on PT, and I never saw anybody inserting just a 4band-eq, or working with a hard-fixed slope. They use the 7band of PT, or the 10band from waves, or or or...
So if Steinberg wants to give us a (like the title of this thread) proper post eq, they should upgrade their channel eq in order to have this one shown on the mixer.

If Steinberg just would generate an extra vst plugin - then I don't need one.

I'm working on Steinberg since 1996, and never used their channel eq due to the lack in filtering problematic location sound. I always had better third-party ones.
And next to Volume, Pan and Send, EQ is one of the four main features/operations in every single mix! So if Nuendo wants to present a mixing station which should compete with all the major consoles, imo, there's no way around it. And still: the basic idea of the channel eq is great...

In film-mixing a proper and suitable eq-filter for me is much more important than most of the other features mentioned here (and much more important than having a channel strip tube-saturation or sth like that).

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:54 pm
by Jim Clark
Headlands wrote:To me, what is of vital importance is that we have proper HPF and LPF filters integrated with the channel EQ, with adjustable slopes. I do think that more bands could be useful to some even though it may not be to others, but incorporating the filters into the channel EQ (and making the filters actually useful and flexible) is of universal importance, from what I'm seeing.
Agreed. The addition of HP and LP filters to channel EQ might actually get me to use them on a regular basis, which I can't say that I do now...
I have become accustomed to using 3rd party EQ plug-ins as a matter of course.
I also agree it would probably help Steinberg's reputation as a post-production DAW to have a more full-featured EQ as part of the default feature set.

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:38 pm
by Domilik
Will the Hi/Low-Cut be optimized for a professional operation in 6.5? Or are we still forced to use it with 24db/oct?

And will it be visible in mixer-EQ-curve?

Something like the EQ-section in Avid Channel strip (also 4 bands + 2 Cuts), where the cut-filters are sort of layed on top of the EQ-graph?

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:42 pm
by Fredo
Not for 6.5 ...

Fredo

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:32 am
by drorh4
Domilik wrote:Will the Hi/Low-Cut be optimized for a professional operation in 6.5? Or are we still forced to use it with 24db/oct?

And will it be visible in mixer-EQ-curve?
I think this is the crucial topic here. I can live without the 'more' bands ONLY IF the filters are integrated.
In Post workflow the first thing I move is the filter knob. When I saw the new Nuendo has an integral Filters on the mixer it felt to be "this will make my life much easier!".
I tried to used it few times, I tried to automate it and quick control it - It was a drag!
You can't see it, it has this fix curve u don't even know and it is not an easy task to automate it.
One of the most important features on the mixer is totally useless.

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:25 pm
by jvamos
I have gotten by using the post filter to manage roll offs. It's not fancy but it works. I do often go to other EQs to get the job done. In my opine the Nuendo EQ's don't get nearly as narrow as post production requires.I think the best solution is an EQ that is stock that can notch at any frequency flexibly. Sometimes recordings are really dirty. A fan can kill the mood in a scene but none the less they are audible on set from time to time.

I like the strip EQ that we have. It keeps my automation safely baked into the channel. Also my hardware works well with it. I'd say make the Q go to 111 and I'd be happy. It would put N7 in a weird non-compatible place though. But then again the licensing permits you to run older versions so there is no harm there.

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:21 pm
by Rickard
Agreed. This really should have been/should be a priority.

Dean

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:36 am
by Domilik
Any news regarding this in N7?

Will we get a new built-in channel-EQ which is worthy for post concerns?

More bands, better notch, built-in Hi/Lo-Cut (with adjustable slopes!).

:?:

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:49 pm
by psvennevig
TimoWildenhain wrote:Hello,

thank you very much for this valuable and objective discussion. This is exactly the type of conversation that
makes it possible for us to "follow". There is hardly a "wrong" or "right" in this discussion. As Chewy said, it very
much depends on the material you get and also the way you work.

Fredo is right when he says that this is a major task and other features need to be taken off the roadmap to
get this one done. Therefore it's of major importance to know HOW important this feature is for your daily workflow.

Thanks,
Timo
Hi,

I think that a proper eq with more bands and built in lc/hc is important.
I really like the eq/studio eq in Nuendo. But it isn't enough. So, I usually have to use DMG EQuality as well.

I think it is important that a high end product like Nuendo have a better featured EQ. To have to use two EQs to get what you want from the built-in EQ isn't the best.
Nuendo has most of the other stuff now. The EQ sounds good, just to few bands.
The new Brick Wall limiter is very good. All in all the updates the plugins has gotten is good, just not quite there for the EQ.

Pål

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:16 pm
by augusteighty
Same as a few posters here - rarely use the Nuendo / Cubase EQ. I currently use Pro Q 2 as default.

30 bands, mid-side support, stereo support, individual band soloing, larger GUI (including fullscreen), far more slope options, etc. I use the stock EQ only in cases when I need a bit of boost / cut here and there.

I'm actually quite amazed that so many are fine with using the stock EQ. I'm curious what work they are doing. For me, post audio is more creative than it ever has been. Compare the audio from a modern film / tv show to something 30 years ago. It's night and day. 6, 7, 8 channel surround, far more ambient, foley, musical elements / layers, faster pacing and faster dynamics, far more intricate automation.

The demands on audio today are FAR more than they were in the past. And having multi-band, multi-slope, stereo EQs is basically a necessity...especially for speed and accuracy. There's no way I'm fiddling with the LPF in Nuendo 6.5 crossing my fingers that it is the right slope, or I won't need Q support. If I need a steep bandpass the stock EQ is useless. If i need to solo a band while I'm looking for specific tone that needs to be cut I'm also out of luck. If I need to shift the whole EQ range down / up in frequence, also out of luck. If I need to invert the EQ, out of luck. If I need to EQ within a very narrow pitch range, I have no reference - and a tiny little EQ window for some guesstimation. (Perhaps some of you have musical scales vs. frequencies memorized though...I do not!) If I have a stereo track and want to do some stereo EQ work (which I do on pretty much every track with Pro Q 2), I need to split into dual mono and proceed. Pretty silly. And considering there is now so much coordination between score and sound design, having musical elements as part of the EQ (like with Equilibrium and Pro Q 2) is more important than ever.

That's my 2-cents. If having a more comprehensive EQ means breaking back capability and compatibility with hardware (CC121, etc.) so be it. I'm definitely in the camp of not using the stock EQ anyway...and don't use EQ functions on Steinberg hardware pretty much ever at the moment...because the stock EQ collects dust.

EDIT: Obviously not saying the stock EQ has to be as powerful as a 3rd party EQ like DMG / Fabfilter, but even more bands, more slope options would be nice. Why there has to be a dedicated LPF / HPF seems ineffecient...just allow more bands and the option to select bell, shelf, cut, etc. for each.

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:39 am
by fenderchris
Quite right. Fabfilter Pro Q2 is streets ahead of any other eq i have tried.

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:28 pm
by Domilik
augusteighty wrote:Same as a few posters here - rarely use the Nuendo / Cubase EQ. I currently use Pro Q 2 as default.

30 bands, mid-side support, stereo support, individual band soloing, larger GUI (including fullscreen), far more slope options, etc. I use the stock EQ only in cases when I need a bit of boost / cut here and there.

I'm actually quite amazed that so many are fine with using the stock EQ. I'm curious what work they are doing. For me, post audio is more creative than it ever has been. Compare the audio from a modern film / tv show to something 30 years ago. It's night and day. 6, 7, 8 channel surround, far more ambient, foley, musical elements / layers, faster pacing and faster dynamics, far more intricate automation.

The demands on audio today are FAR more than they were in the past. And having multi-band, multi-slope, stereo EQs is basically a necessity...especially for speed and accuracy. There's no way I'm fiddling with the LPF in Nuendo 6.5 crossing my fingers that it is the right slope, or I won't need Q support. If I need a steep bandpass the stock EQ is useless. If i need to solo a band while I'm looking for specific tone that needs to be cut I'm also out of luck. If I need to shift the whole EQ range down / up in frequence, also out of luck. If I need to invert the EQ, out of luck. If I need to EQ within a very narrow pitch range, I have no reference - and a tiny little EQ window for some guesstimation. (Perhaps some of you have musical scales vs. frequencies memorized though...I do not!) If I have a stereo track and want to do some stereo EQ work (which I do on pretty much every track with Pro Q 2), I need to split into dual mono and proceed. Pretty silly. And considering there is now so much coordination between score and sound design, having musical elements as part of the EQ (like with Equilibrium and Pro Q 2) is more important than ever.

That's my 2-cents. If having a more comprehensive EQ means breaking back capability and compatibility with hardware (CC121, etc.) so be it. I'm definitely in the camp of not using the stock EQ anyway...and don't use EQ functions on Steinberg hardware pretty much ever at the moment...because the stock EQ collects dust.

EDIT: Obviously not saying the stock EQ has to be as powerful as a 3rd party EQ like DMG / Fabfilter, but even more bands, more slope options would be nice. Why there has to be a dedicated LPF / HPF seems ineffecient...just allow more bands and the option to select bell, shelf, cut, etc. for each.
+1 to all of this

Are there any news for us in N7?

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:50 pm
by stingray
augusteighty wrote:If I need a steep bandpass the stock EQ is useless. If i need to solo a band while I'm looking for specific tone that needs to be cut I'm also out of luck. If I need to shift the whole EQ range down / up in frequence, also out of luck. If I need to invert the EQ, out of luck. If I need to EQ within a very narrow pitch range, I have no reference - and a tiny little EQ window for some guesstimation. (Perhaps some of you have musical scales vs. frequencies memorized though...I do not!) If I have a stereo track and want to do some stereo EQ work (which I do on pretty much every track with Pro Q 2), I need to split into dual mono and proceed. Pretty silly. And considering there is now so much coordination between score and sound design, having musical elements as part of the EQ (like with Equilibrium and Pro Q 2) is more important than ever.
Some of these issues are addressed in the latest version of Cubase. Presumably, the improvements will be featured in Nuendo at some stage.

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:21 pm
by Domilik
Cool, with N7, which finally brings adjustable slopes to the HiLo-Cuts, as well as showing the filter-curve in EQ-graph, we now got a EQ-Section I can work with! Thank's a lot!! I did my first mix just using the channel-EQ after 19 years in Cubendo. :)

One thing, which should be improved though:

I'd like to see the filters as a part of the EQ-module (like it is advertised). Right now, the filters are not saved within EQ-settings/-presets.
And - more important for the workflow - since the filters right now are a kind of seperate plugin in Nuendo, I cannot control them from my EUCON-controller without switching sections on it. Setting up the Cuts is a permanent task next to setting up the other EQ-bands while filtering a sound. It's a huge brake in workflow when I have to switch controller menus each time I want to tweak the filter, coming from a "normal" EQ-band, and backwards...

Without having a clue if this is programmable, but if it is not possible to integrate the filters properly into EQ-section, could it be then at least programmed in the same EUCON-menu?

Thanks again,
Domilik

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:37 pm
by psvennevig
Domilik wrote:Cool, with N7, which finally brings adjustable slopes to the HiLo-Cuts, as well as showing the filter-curve in EQ-graph, we now got a EQ-Section I can work with! Thank's a lot!! I did my first mix just using the channel-EQ after 19 years in Cubendo. :)

One thing, which should be improved though:

I'd like to see the filters as a part of the EQ-module (like it is advertised). Right now, the filters are not saved within EQ-settings/-presets.
And - more important for the workflow - since the filters right now are a kind of seperate plugin in Nuendo, I cannot control them from my EUCON-controller without switching sections on it. Setting up the Cuts is a permanent task next to setting up the other EQ-bands while filtering a sound. It's a huge brake in workflow when I have to switch controller menus each time I want to tweak the filter, coming from a "normal" EQ-band, and backwards...

Without having a clue if this is programmable, but if it is not possible to integrate the filters properly into EQ-section, could it be then at least programmed in the same EUCON-menu?

Thanks again,
Domilik
+1 to all that!

Pål

Re: Proper Post EQ

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:37 pm
by Oliver.Lucas
fenderchris wrote:Quite right. Fabfilter Pro Q2 is streets ahead of any other eq i have tried.
Fabfilter/DMGAudio and Melda EQs are all great for audio post, but have too many parameters for the touch collect function to work. This only works with the Nuendo 4 band EQ. I think it needs improvement.

Ollie