Page 1 of 2

Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:16 pm
by john1192
Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

hi, in one move in the Volume Automation below a track, i would like to be able to Select a Range / have breakpoints for that range made & and also the outer breakpoints you need to be able to move what's within ... / grab that line (or in N6's case Reveal the Editor and give us those tools) and pull it down (or up) ... I come from Pro Tools (have some Nuendo experience - had Cubase 1.5 and work on an N4) and am learning N6 Automation and how it operates ... reading the manual, trying things out, asking a good friend through text and pictures, so i am trying outside of the forums ... N6 has been good to work on so far ... just a few hoops to jump through so i am more comfortable ...

thank you

john

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:27 pm
by john1192
thank s bredo ... i will take a look ... it is really only one step short ... making the outer breakpoints, well 2 steps - 2 breakpoints ... i have been noticing that you can create a breakpoint and the one next to it will disappear ? is this a bug ?

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:38 pm
by john1192
well, that looks like I will wait for a Feature Update ... I just wish the breakpoints would not keep disappearing ... is there some rule turned on that i need to turn off ... like wait 10 seconds between making points ? ;)

where would i find Lukabrooklyn's videos at ?

thank you

john

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:58 am
by Rotund
Maybe the automation reduction setting is causing them to disappear.
You may need to lower it a bit.
In preferences somewhere, there is an option to reduce the amount of points
that are written when performing an automation pass.
Not sure if this going to fix your problem but it seems like a good candidate.
I have never had a point disappear, but then my automation reduction level is tweaked.

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:14 am
by DG
This break point or node thing has always been a PITA. Pro Tools creates them in a very useful way. Nuendo either doesn't create them, or deletes them, if it considers they are unnecessary. Because of this, copying whole chunks of multi instrument automation is a bit dicey in Nuendo, unless you are very, very careful, whereas in Pro Tools it is flawless.

FWIW I brought this up years ago and was told that the disappearing automation points were by design, and therefore not a bug. I hope that the programmers look at this again and at least make it a Preference of some sort. It would be one less reason to mix in Pro Tools, that's for sure.

DG

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:59 am
by Sunshy
Thanks for this macro Bredo. I've been wanting to do this for years. I sometimes forget just how powerful Nuendo is with it's Macros and key command customizations, etc.

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:00 pm
by john1192
where can we send ideas ... as these two alone - tab to transient and Solid Automation editing are key ... i may just try writing the automation in realtime - more hands on ... need to grab one of those CMC controllers and move some faders ... i always liked doing that anyway but when you need to Fine Tune we could really use that PT like control

cheers

john

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:07 am
by twelvetwelve
Also try using the line tool for automation. It will create the breakpoints and then you can simply lasso to scale up/down later.

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:02 am
by AnthonyA
Been wanting this for years.

Having a bit of a problem creating the PLE script. I open the Project Logical Editor and can't find "inside cycle" anywhere.

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:01 am
by john1192
likelystory ... Using the Line Tool, you still need to make the 2 outer breakpoints ... and when the disappear it takes a few tries before you get them planted ... and why is the "Line Tool" not available under Key Commands ??? strange ...

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:12 am
by john1192
Rotund .... i cannot find anything about the Automation Reduction you mentioned in Preferences or Menus ... maybe i missed it .. if you find it could you let me know .. thank you john

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:55 am
by DG
john1192 wrote:Rotund .... i cannot find anything about the Automation Reduction you mentioned in Preferences or Menus ... maybe i missed it .. if you find it could you let me know .. thank you john
I think automation reduction might be in the automation panel.

DG

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:21 am
by Chewy Papadopoulos
I may well be missing something here... but aren't we talking about Trim Mode in the automation panel?

Chewy

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:29 pm
by john1192
i almost have a workaround but this "Automation Thinning" for lack of a better term is making it tough ... i grabbed the manual and found the automation panel and the settings menu for that within ... but none of these settings affect the making of breakpoints ...

here is a work around i may try for a day or two until i can make up something else ... 3 steps but no disappearing breakpoints ...

using the range tool make a range Copy & Paste In Place makes the 1st set of points / now do that slightly outside or inside (depending on which you made first) and it makes your 2nd set of points .. Lasso with Object Selection Tool and you get that gray box (name escapes me, my brain is frying trying to learn all these new procedures but I am trying ...

the range tool is the Key so Far ... I tried making a range and then moving it slightly left or right, it makes One Breakpoint in the direction you move ... but creating the 2nd outside point you ned to switch to Drawing Tool but it starts the disappearing act at this point ... if we could choose with the range tool, copy paste IN PLace and move the line that would be 2 steps ... i cannot seem to get it below 3 steps ... i am not giving up .. and the macro is cool but not a long term solution for the Program ... i would like to see this as a Standard Feature ... lets get some of those PT Auto functions ... or have some NEW Fresh ONES ...

cheers

john

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:04 pm
by twelvetwelve
john1192 wrote:likelystory ... Using the Line Tool, you still need to make the 2 outer breakpoints ... and when the disappear it takes a few tries before you get them planted ... and why is the "Line Tool" not available under Key Commands ??? strange ...
Are you using the correct tool? You certainly don't need to create extra break points.

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:14 am
by john1192
likeystory ... you say ...

"Are you using the correct tool? You certainly don't need to create extra break points." Please explain: what Tool would be Bad to use other than the Speaker Tool ;) and create extra breakpoints ?? I need no more than 4 .... are you thinking I am making more than this ??

here is my short version: you need 4 breakpoints to move a selection "ONLY" otherwise the entire Volume Line moves / 2 outer Anchors shall we say and 2 inner that are the Actual Selection ... if there are already Points there then Great ... but if there is nothing there ... this is the 1st Automation you are drawing in (say a Dip in the Acoustic track as the Lead Vox comes IN)

cheers

john

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:51 pm
by john1192
damn Bredo, that sucks that your Macro failed ... i am going to continue to look for another solution ... as well ... thank you

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:50 pm
by twelvetwelve
john1192 wrote: Please explain: what Tool would be Bad to use other than the Speaker Tool ;) and create extra breakpoints ?? I need no more than 4 .... are you thinking I am making more than this ??

here is my short version: you need 4 breakpoints to move a selection "ONLY" otherwise the entire Volume Line moves / 2 outer Anchors shall we say and 2 inner that are the Actual Selection ... if there are already Points there then Great ... but if there is nothing there ... this is the 1st Automation you are drawing in (say a Dip in the Acoustic track as the Lead Vox comes IN)
Please see attached image. It's a slightly different workflow approach to PT but it is very fast. You can combine the line tool with modifiers as well as using the info-line to force commit values.

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:15 pm
by john1192
likelystory, dude that is sweet thank you ... i downloaded it and now i can go frame by frame through your GIF ... this is a cool workflow ... I dig the Tilt Controls on the Gray Panel (see Q #4) .. also: you can just grab a breakpoint once Highlighted and drag up or down ..

a couple questions for you ...

1) modifiers - can i get the Line Tool onto a modifier key - having trouble finding this ... ala Logic: have the Line Tool revealed with modifier key on Object Select Tool ...

2) Line Tool key command ?

3) info-line to force commit values ... where would i find this ? are you speaking about using Snap ?

4) What is the area called that is Gray with the Tilt Controls when you use the Object Selection ? i found it once in the manual and now i have had another brain fry between pro tools and nuendo (my 50 yr old gray matter is not absorbing as fast as it used to ... )

thanks again for your help ...

john

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:25 pm
by twelvetwelve
john1192 wrote: 1) modifiers - can i get the Line Tool onto a modifier key - having trouble finding this ... ala Logic: have the Line Tool revealed with modifier key on Object Select Tool ...
I don't believe you assign line tool to a modifier. You can assign to a key command however or see Editing -> Tools -> Popup toolbox on right click.
john1192 wrote: 2) Line Tool key command ?
Search for "Curve Tool".
john1192 wrote: 3) info-line to force commit values ... where would i find this ? are you speaking about using Snap ?
You can commit the same value for multiple events by rubber banding them and in the info line entering a value. The key here is to hold down your modifier key as well as pressing enter (you can assign this, my default is control). Rather than changing the values as an offset this will force ALL values to the one you entered. A real-world scenario for this might be to change all your automation points to the same value.

I've written a more detailed explanation at http://www.thelikelystory.com/setting-t ... le-events/

john1192 wrote: 4) What is the area called that is Gray with the Tilt Controls when you use the Object Selection ? i found it once in the manual and now i have had another brain fry between pro tools and nuendo (my 50 yr old gray matter is not absorbing as fast as it used to ... )
Check the manual for "Automation track editor".

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:52 pm
by john1192
automation track editor - thank you ... wrecking my brain for that one ...

Curve Tool - haha I would have never guessed that one ... thank you

this is a good fast workflow ... i placed the Line / Curve Tool on the Tilde key - nice and close to Object Tool

the Right Click Menu Locked Once for me for easier selection but now it just blinks on and off ... i need to use Control Key to bring the big menu up ... it locks in Logic and like i said once here in N6 ... i doubt there is a command for that ...

btw: nice website ... and thank s again

i have found one thing here that is different than the DUC or Gearslutz - good clear help without a lot of BS ... and Nuendo 6 is muh better than the first DAW i had ... Cubase 1.5 i wish i could find that bule disk ... i switched over to Pro Tools III from cubase as I needed more power .. hence going to a card based system ... i need a more powerful compter to handle what i am doing ... my system has served me well for 5 years now ... i have a Lynx issue that is giving me headaches, so may be new computer and Interface at the same time ...

john

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:14 pm
by twelvetwelve
You're welcome!

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:38 pm
by Rickard
Overall I like the way Nuendo handles automation editing more than Protools but the one thing PT does that Nuendo doesn't do is easy automation trim. That is what the macro described in this thread is about. You lasso a range and move all points within and not touch what is outside of the range in 2 or 3 steps.

I use the line tool all the time for automation but as someone pointed out earlier it always wipes out what was there before. To trim something you have to create edit points on either side of your edit, lasso what is in between(which will likely require a tight zoom because the points will be close) and then move the selected points. It is a multi-step process.

One thing Protools won't do is allow a chosen selection of points within a range. This makes it time consuming to do something like turn down the first 2 bars of automation of each verse in a tune. You have to do them one at a time.

Dean

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:53 pm
by twelvetwelve
Rickard wrote:Overall I like the way Nuendo handles automation editing more than Protools but the one thing PT does that Nuendo doesn't do is easy automation trim. That is what the macro described in this thread is about. You lasso a range and move all points within and not touch what is outside of the range in 2 or 3 steps.

I use the line tool all the time for automation but as someone pointed out earlier it always wipes out what was there before. To trim something you have to create edit points on either side of your edit, lasso what is in between(which will likely require a tight zoom because the points will be close) and then move the selected points. It is a multi-step process.
Are you aware of the trim feature within the automation panel? This will essentially give you another automation lane which lets you offset (or trim) the existing volume automation. You can "freeze" this (apply the trim to your volume lane when you are happy, freeing up the trim lane again) or you can choose to leave it and have it calculated in real-time as a volume automation offset.

To work quickly I would suggest looking at key commands for "locators to selection" as well as "fill loop". When you combine those you have a very quick way of trimming a range based selection.

Yes, it would be nice to have automation trim via the range as PT does it but there are other ways in
Nuendo to get to the same end goal.

Re: Automation - Select/make points/move Volume line

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:57 pm
by john1192
yes, many ways to skin a cat ... get "Trim" onto a key command (i need to as well) it is the same as PT or maybe even a bit more ... as the Gif shows when making that cut using the line (curve) tool just make that line a little lower and it is easy to grab with the lasso ...

and thanks Bredo ...