[ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

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Helidream
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[ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

Post by Helidream » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:19 pm

Product : Nuendo 6.0.7
OS : Windows 7 - 32 bits
PC : Intel Dual Core
Video Card : AMD FirePro

The automation Delta indicator in the project window (automation tracks) does not work. The delta indicator is a small bargraph at right of the automation track. It does not show up anymore in Nuendo 6.

According to the Nuendo 6 manual, it should be here, like in previous Nuendo version 5.5 to indicate the level differences between the actual and the previous automation pass.

I did load the same project inside Nuendo 5.5.6 on the same computer, and here the delta indicator is working. This test seems to prove that it is a Nuendo 6 issue.

How to reproduce :

- Create a new project
- Add an audio track
- Enable automation write on this track
- Record a few fader moves on the volume automation track
- Rewind to the beginning of the recorded area
- Record again some automation data

Result : the delta indicator is missing. There is room for it on the right of the automation track but no working bargraph. The Audio level bargraph in the project window are working. So i don't think that it is a video driver issue.

PS: The delta indicator is a very useful tool for mixing.
Comps+OS: PC Intel Core i7 six core 's - X79 Chipset - 256 Go SATA SSD - 1 To SATA Hard disk, 16 Go RAM - Win 7 Pro 64 Dual 27" monitors - AMD Firepro V7900 video card - Nuendo 8.3.20.
MR816csx - UR44 - MOTU 828 mkIII audio interfaces.
JLCooper MCS3800 (Mixing and Transport) - AKAI AFX + Midi translator Pro (Control Room) - TouchOSC Android (Personal Monitoring Controller) Control surfaces.
Rogers LS3/5a proximity monitors.
Sony PCM-7040 DAT - TASCAM HD-P2 recorder - PTV PT5210 Digital sync generator - Steinberg Timebase - Adam Smith ZETA3 synchronizers.
Lindos LA100 audio analyzer, HP 5372A frequency and time interval analyzer, Siglent SDG2042X signal generator - Tektronix TDS5000 scope - Efratom 10 MHz rubidium clock - HP Z3816A GPS frequency standard.

Helidream
Junior Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:19 pm
Contact:

Re: [ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

Post by Helidream » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:54 pm

Nobody ?

Could someone confirm this so that an eventual problem with my software setup can be discarded ?

In the meantime i'm going to install Nuendo on another PC and check if i have the same problem. As it is fully repeatable on my faulty Nuendo if i don't have it on a different PC this should prove a Nuendo issue.


Edit : i've just tested with Nuendo 6.02 on a different computer and i got the same problem. No Delta Indicator during automation update.

So my assumption is that this is a bug introduced with Nuendo 6.0 or 6.0.2. I'm a bit surprised nevertheless that nobody reported it. I suppose that the reason is that version 6.0 is not yet widespread enough at sites where it is used intensively with critical automation data.

Here is a screen picture of the delta indicator working inside Nuendo 5.5.6 (watch the red bargraph at right of the track control location) :
Nuendo 5.5.6 delta indicator.jpg
Nuendo 5.5.6 working delta indicator
(42.17 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Thanks for your help.
Comps+OS: PC Intel Core i7 six core 's - X79 Chipset - 256 Go SATA SSD - 1 To SATA Hard disk, 16 Go RAM - Win 7 Pro 64 Dual 27" monitors - AMD Firepro V7900 video card - Nuendo 8.3.20.
MR816csx - UR44 - MOTU 828 mkIII audio interfaces.
JLCooper MCS3800 (Mixing and Transport) - AKAI AFX + Midi translator Pro (Control Room) - TouchOSC Android (Personal Monitoring Controller) Control surfaces.
Rogers LS3/5a proximity monitors.
Sony PCM-7040 DAT - TASCAM HD-P2 recorder - PTV PT5210 Digital sync generator - Steinberg Timebase - Adam Smith ZETA3 synchronizers.
Lindos LA100 audio analyzer, HP 5372A frequency and time interval analyzer, Siglent SDG2042X signal generator - Tektronix TDS5000 scope - Efratom 10 MHz rubidium clock - HP Z3816A GPS frequency standard.

johngar
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Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:46 pm
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Re: [ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

Post by johngar » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:52 pm

I don't see it either.
I did some looking around and could not find any preference setting for it, or color options. I though maybe the default color of the delta meter was set to black or something.
anyway, confirmed, it seems to be missing.
PC | Nuendo 8 | Cubase 8 | i7-4930k | Win10 | 32gb ram | Intensity Pro | Radeon HD7700 | RME9632 | Euphonix MC Control -Mix - Transport | Genelec |

MacBook Pro 2.2Ghz i7 | OS X 10.9 | MOTU 828MKII |

artifactdetroit.com

Helidream
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Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:19 pm
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Re: [ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

Post by Helidream » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:35 pm

I did install Nuendo 5.5.6 and Nuendo 6.0.7 64 bits versions on a 64 bits seven machine.

The machine is a core i7 fitted with an Nvidia GTS450 video card (latest drivers), 16 Go RAM.

Results :

- Nuendo 5.5.6 has a working delta indicator.

- Nuendo 6.0.7 does not have a delta indicator.

Because Nuendo 6.0.7 does not have a delta indicator in 32 bits version neither in 64 bits version on two different PC machines this prove that Nuendo 6.0.2 to 6.0.7 have a faulty delta indicator.

More there is another user report. Should be fixed as soon as possible.


Thanks for you support.
Comps+OS: PC Intel Core i7 six core 's - X79 Chipset - 256 Go SATA SSD - 1 To SATA Hard disk, 16 Go RAM - Win 7 Pro 64 Dual 27" monitors - AMD Firepro V7900 video card - Nuendo 8.3.20.
MR816csx - UR44 - MOTU 828 mkIII audio interfaces.
JLCooper MCS3800 (Mixing and Transport) - AKAI AFX + Midi translator Pro (Control Room) - TouchOSC Android (Personal Monitoring Controller) Control surfaces.
Rogers LS3/5a proximity monitors.
Sony PCM-7040 DAT - TASCAM HD-P2 recorder - PTV PT5210 Digital sync generator - Steinberg Timebase - Adam Smith ZETA3 synchronizers.
Lindos LA100 audio analyzer, HP 5372A frequency and time interval analyzer, Siglent SDG2042X signal generator - Tektronix TDS5000 scope - Efratom 10 MHz rubidium clock - HP Z3816A GPS frequency standard.

Helidream
Junior Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:19 pm
Contact:

Re: [ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

Post by Helidream » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:39 pm

Here is evidence in the following video that it is a Nuendo 6 problem.

This time with Nuendo 6 Mac version :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNB-S-IN ... page#t=187

You can see during the automation pass the missing delta indicator.


And Nuendo 5.5 Mac version, with the Delta indicator working :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLBAD ... lpage#t=77
Comps+OS: PC Intel Core i7 six core 's - X79 Chipset - 256 Go SATA SSD - 1 To SATA Hard disk, 16 Go RAM - Win 7 Pro 64 Dual 27" monitors - AMD Firepro V7900 video card - Nuendo 8.3.20.
MR816csx - UR44 - MOTU 828 mkIII audio interfaces.
JLCooper MCS3800 (Mixing and Transport) - AKAI AFX + Midi translator Pro (Control Room) - TouchOSC Android (Personal Monitoring Controller) Control surfaces.
Rogers LS3/5a proximity monitors.
Sony PCM-7040 DAT - TASCAM HD-P2 recorder - PTV PT5210 Digital sync generator - Steinberg Timebase - Adam Smith ZETA3 synchronizers.
Lindos LA100 audio analyzer, HP 5372A frequency and time interval analyzer, Siglent SDG2042X signal generator - Tektronix TDS5000 scope - Efratom 10 MHz rubidium clock - HP Z3816A GPS frequency standard.

johngar
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Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:46 pm
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Re: [ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

Post by johngar » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:29 pm

There does not seem to be a lot of interest in this from Steinberg or anyone else.
I have to say, I never noticed this feature in the software before I read this thread.
If they removed the feature, they should say so, and update the manual or, address the issue.
PC | Nuendo 8 | Cubase 8 | i7-4930k | Win10 | 32gb ram | Intensity Pro | Radeon HD7700 | RME9632 | Euphonix MC Control -Mix - Transport | Genelec |

MacBook Pro 2.2Ghz i7 | OS X 10.9 | MOTU 828MKII |

artifactdetroit.com

Helidream
Junior Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:19 pm
Contact:

Re: [ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

Post by Helidream » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:42 pm

The problem is that it is a very useful feature for mixing.

This indicator gives you a clear indication of the delta level compared to the previous automation pass, so that it is very easy to punch out without creating level jumps and without even using the cross-over mode.

Sure you can do the same thing watching at the curve real time update, or you can rise the return time but i find that it's really easier and more precise to watch for the delta indicator. Because it's two colors, you always know if you are too low or too high. Not as easy watching at the curve.

When mixing it's important to concentrate about what you ear, the less distraction with complex curves and computer things, the best you can mix. That's why for example using a mouse is not the best thing for mixing you can loose too much concentration in watching the screen and manipulate precisely the mouse to turn buttons or to do precise tasks.

I don't think that the feature has been silently removed, if it were the case it would have been announced in the changelog and the manual would have been updated. I think that it is a forgetting perhaps after some automation code updates.

It seems to me important that a software giving sample accurate automation can give a good level of user visual aid to have some benefits from this accuracy.
Some users are focusing on technical things, like the multiple discussions we can see talking about the usefulness of 32, 48 or 64 bits mixing engines. The most important is not here as soon as you have a descent audio quality and all DAW have that today. The differences are in the user GUI and control interfaces. This missing delta indicator is a regression for me.

Same remark for the interface inconsistencies between the mixer and the channel strip. Why the mixer is using a newer design a la Ardour, when the channel strip is still using rotary buttons ? This for sure is confusing users.

All those small but important things are suggesting that version 6 has been developed in a hurry to fit the Nuage control surface as soon as possible.
Comps+OS: PC Intel Core i7 six core 's - X79 Chipset - 256 Go SATA SSD - 1 To SATA Hard disk, 16 Go RAM - Win 7 Pro 64 Dual 27" monitors - AMD Firepro V7900 video card - Nuendo 8.3.20.
MR816csx - UR44 - MOTU 828 mkIII audio interfaces.
JLCooper MCS3800 (Mixing and Transport) - AKAI AFX + Midi translator Pro (Control Room) - TouchOSC Android (Personal Monitoring Controller) Control surfaces.
Rogers LS3/5a proximity monitors.
Sony PCM-7040 DAT - TASCAM HD-P2 recorder - PTV PT5210 Digital sync generator - Steinberg Timebase - Adam Smith ZETA3 synchronizers.
Lindos LA100 audio analyzer, HP 5372A frequency and time interval analyzer, Siglent SDG2042X signal generator - Tektronix TDS5000 scope - Efratom 10 MHz rubidium clock - HP Z3816A GPS frequency standard.

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Fredo
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Re: [ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

Post by Fredo » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:41 am

Confirmed.

Fredo

Helidream
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Posts: 173
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Re: [ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

Post by Helidream » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Please can you confirm that the delta indicator is working again inside Nuendo 6.5 ?

Thanks.
Comps+OS: PC Intel Core i7 six core 's - X79 Chipset - 256 Go SATA SSD - 1 To SATA Hard disk, 16 Go RAM - Win 7 Pro 64 Dual 27" monitors - AMD Firepro V7900 video card - Nuendo 8.3.20.
MR816csx - UR44 - MOTU 828 mkIII audio interfaces.
JLCooper MCS3800 (Mixing and Transport) - AKAI AFX + Midi translator Pro (Control Room) - TouchOSC Android (Personal Monitoring Controller) Control surfaces.
Rogers LS3/5a proximity monitors.
Sony PCM-7040 DAT - TASCAM HD-P2 recorder - PTV PT5210 Digital sync generator - Steinberg Timebase - Adam Smith ZETA3 synchronizers.
Lindos LA100 audio analyzer, HP 5372A frequency and time interval analyzer, Siglent SDG2042X signal generator - Tektronix TDS5000 scope - Efratom 10 MHz rubidium clock - HP Z3816A GPS frequency standard.

johngar
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Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:46 pm
Contact:

Re: [ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

Post by johngar » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:12 pm

Helidream wrote:Please can you confirm that the delta indicator is working again inside Nuendo 6.5 ?

Thanks.
Yes it has been fixed and is working in 6.5.
PC | Nuendo 8 | Cubase 8 | i7-4930k | Win10 | 32gb ram | Intensity Pro | Radeon HD7700 | RME9632 | Euphonix MC Control -Mix - Transport | Genelec |

MacBook Pro 2.2Ghz i7 | OS X 10.9 | MOTU 828MKII |

artifactdetroit.com

Helidream
Junior Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:19 pm
Contact:

Re: [ISSUE] Automation delta Indicator is not available.

Post by Helidream » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:44 am

Nice work, thanks.
Comps+OS: PC Intel Core i7 six core 's - X79 Chipset - 256 Go SATA SSD - 1 To SATA Hard disk, 16 Go RAM - Win 7 Pro 64 Dual 27" monitors - AMD Firepro V7900 video card - Nuendo 8.3.20.
MR816csx - UR44 - MOTU 828 mkIII audio interfaces.
JLCooper MCS3800 (Mixing and Transport) - AKAI AFX + Midi translator Pro (Control Room) - TouchOSC Android (Personal Monitoring Controller) Control surfaces.
Rogers LS3/5a proximity monitors.
Sony PCM-7040 DAT - TASCAM HD-P2 recorder - PTV PT5210 Digital sync generator - Steinberg Timebase - Adam Smith ZETA3 synchronizers.
Lindos LA100 audio analyzer, HP 5372A frequency and time interval analyzer, Siglent SDG2042X signal generator - Tektronix TDS5000 scope - Efratom 10 MHz rubidium clock - HP Z3816A GPS frequency standard.

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