5.1 channel order in export

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KSD
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5.1 channel order in export

Post by KSD » Fri May 30, 2014 9:14 am

Hello group

When I export a 5.1 mix as a multi channel WAV, the channel setting is always L,R,C,Lfe,Ls,Rs.
Is it possible to change that export into L,C,R,Ls,Rs,Lfe?

Regards.

Alan
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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by ju » Fri May 30, 2014 10:22 am

Hi.
No, as far As I know, you cannot.
LRC is the ITU standard.
LCR is the film order, but it's just a convention, not a real standard.
Steinberg choose an international standard, and it's better that way IMHO. But anyway it's not really important :
When exporting an interleaved 5.1 you have 3 possibilities :

1. It's a stem or a specific sound that needs to be re inserted later in Nuendo : you can leave it in the LRC order, interleaved.

2. It's a deliverable : you have to go for separated mono files.
Everyone ask for six mono files because you have in fact some other different orders possible, for instance LRLsRsCLfe, or LLsCRRsLfe and so on.
And a lot of software use a lot of different channel order. Not one is capable or reversing it's native order for exchange reasons...
With mono files, everyone is happy !
And yet again, .L .R etc is the protools naming convention (you get some others as well) and in Nuendo let you choose that.

3. You have to deliver for a specific theater or for special diffusion directly, or sometimes some DCP authorer, and they ask for wave extensible (a glimpse in the future...)
This format allow additional metadata to BWF files to specify which stream goes to which channel. (No need to go for mono channels, then)
It is really cool but remains for specific occasions only... Because lots of others (old) daws don't understand that format.

Anyway, mono files is the main way to go for 5.1.
I even use that for sound banks.
Hope it helps

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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by KSD » Fri May 30, 2014 10:32 am

Hi Ju

Thanks for your answer.
I'll stick to mono exports, works perfect every time :-)

Regards

Alan
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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by ju » Fri May 30, 2014 10:35 am

You're welcome... Developing the idea above, Nuendo "could" propose us to change the export format.
After all, it's just a matter of re interleave the mono fils after the export... Not essential at all, though...

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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by neilwilkes » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:43 am

ju wrote:Hi.
No, as far As I know, you cannot.
LRC is the ITU standard.
LCR is the film order, but it's just a convention, not a real standard.
Steinberg choose an international standard, and it's better that way IMHO. But anyway it's not really important :
Yes, you can change the order.
Simply use the "MixerDelay" plugin and remap as needed.
There are presets for the usual orders.
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Fredo
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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by Fredo » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:59 am

Oh, careful ...
In that case, be sure to flag "do not use Wave Extensible format" uopn export.
That feature, which, in normal conditions, should always be activated, writes metadata into the MultiBwav which defines the destination of each channel. This means that upon exporting and importing such a file, the channel destination is done automatically by the application. In other words, the application knows which channel is which, no matter in what order the file has been created.

Now, if you change the order, the application is unaware of that, which will result in a faulty import into any other application.

Fredo

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lemix
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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by lemix » Tue May 26, 2015 4:34 pm

Sorry guys, I'm late to the 5.1 game.
How do I set my mixdown to render out in a 5.1 interleaved format ?
I am only able to mix out to 5 discrete mono files only...
I'm using SMPTE/ITU standard.

thanx !!
cheers,
Andrew

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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by Fredo » Wed May 27, 2015 7:35 am

?????????????????????
The mixdown is always in interleaved format, unless you have flagged the "Split Channels" option.


Fredo

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lemix
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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by lemix » Wed May 27, 2015 1:05 pm

OMG..how can I be so ignorant. Of course.
I was checking that box out of habit when sending out my 4 channel post mixes to editorial.
Now I feel dumb :oops:

thanx Fredo
cheers,
Andrew

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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by Fredo » Wed May 27, 2015 1:32 pm

No worries.
:)

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lemix
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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by lemix » Wed May 27, 2015 8:08 pm

Fredo, while I have your attention I'd like to ask another question...OP please forgive for the momentary sidetracking on your topic.

In v6.5.4 there is a normalize to -23 LUFS option within the export audio dialog.
I was trying to set this value to -24, to no avail.
The system went through the analyze pass, but nothing has changed on the rendered output.
No info in the manual for this..do you have an idea what I am doing wrong ( again :) )

thanx
cheers,
Andrew

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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by Fredo » Thu May 28, 2015 8:59 am

Just tested this, and the normalisation is working perfectly.
Did tests @ -19, -22, -24 & -26, all exports were correct.

Fredo

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lemix
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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by lemix » Thu May 28, 2015 6:21 pm

Yes Fredo..got it, thanx
However it seems that if you have both the LUFS and TP values set, the process gives first priority to peaks.
OK..so I think it is a normal behavior , specially when the material is far off the target values.
Just commenting ;)
cheers,
Andrew

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Fredo
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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by Fredo » Fri May 29, 2015 7:42 am

The whole idea of the normalisation function is to make small corrections to a mix that already is close to the target.
Although it is technically possible to bring a mix "into spec", it will never sound good/correct.


Well ... that being said, I see people mixing the old fashioned way (lots of compresion & limiting), and then simply bring down the mix to -23 LUFS ... Apparently "good enough" is becoming a new standard.
:(


Fredo

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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by MattiasNYC » Fri May 29, 2015 2:01 pm

I agree with Fredo, "good enough" is the new standard. It's just capitalism pushing costs lower, and revenue. It is what it is (and I hate it).

So in those instances bringing a mix to spec on export can be fine. I actually experienced this a few times (though never used the feature, but will) where I mix for internet or broadcast trying to hit specific levels but where the content never ever will be redone or recut. So stems won't need to sum unequivocally to the full mix.

But of course on that note as Fredo points out too heavy processing during export to bring into spec will make the stems not match in which case they won't be 'valid'. That will be an issue for sure for some projects, so I'd use this functionality with caution.
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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by lemix » Sat May 30, 2015 5:03 pm

Yes I agree with both of you.
I think it also depends on the delivery target medium and of course, the budget.

OK, I have another question;
I have just set up my little home edit room with surround monitors.
But for the time being, I need to monitor my initial edit and premix work on my main L-R pairs, for details and accuracy.

What Nuendo included plugin would best fit stereo monitoring on a 5.1 session ?
I see " mix 6 to 2" and "mixconvert V6"

Thanx !
cheers,
Andrew

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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by Fredo » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:45 am

If you use Control Room, you have instant access to all downmix formats, and you will be able to audition any individual channel(s).

Fredo

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lemix
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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by lemix » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:01 am

No Fredo, I don't.
My entire room is connected to a console ( A&H GSR-24M) including my two DAW's, analog rack, and all monitors.

thanx,
cheers,
Andrew

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Re: 5.1 channel order in export

Post by neilwilkes » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:04 pm

lemix wrote:No Fredo, I don't.
My entire room is connected to a console ( A&H GSR-24M) including my two DAW's, analog rack, and all monitors.

thanx,
I am sure Fredo will step in here if this is incorrect, but if you use the CR in Nuendo, you will have access to everything you are looking for. The CR is independent of the mix buss - and really is invaluable.
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