system link question

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digitalson
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system link question

Post by digitalson » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:26 am

if 2 computers are running rme madi fx cards...and i run the madi card at 96k and using 1 madi port giving me 32 channels to and from comp 1 and 2. if i route them as vst system link i/o's will the outs from the 2nd comp need to be offset to match the card buffer latency? or will system link delay compensate those channels from the 2nd comp as opposed to just hooking them up just as ins and outs? and i can use the aes from both cards for the sync and midi etc.for the syncing ...also does system link as being sample accurate respond to winding and shuttling from master comp? say i want the video to be on 2nd comp...also can i route sends from both comps to use 1 eff insert on any comp? i guess just use direct summing and route the send out to a separate pair out madi tracks...it can be confusing but can be very powerful!!!!!!
i7 ,64gb 1866 mem x79 chipset, ssd os,4 x ssd drives raid 0 motu pci 96 ins and outs @96k for external gear
tons of vintage outboard gear 3 monitors and 42" LCD for spotting to film
Windows 7 pro 64 sp1
Gtx 780 ,all liquid cooled CPU overclocked to 4 ghz

digitalson
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Re: system link question

Post by digitalson » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:27 am

also will sync station help in any way?
i7 ,64gb 1866 mem x79 chipset, ssd os,4 x ssd drives raid 0 motu pci 96 ins and outs @96k for external gear
tons of vintage outboard gear 3 monitors and 42" LCD for spotting to film
Windows 7 pro 64 sp1
Gtx 780 ,all liquid cooled CPU overclocked to 4 ghz

Bernhard
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Re: system link question

Post by Bernhard » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:46 pm

if 2 computers are running rme madi fx cards...and i run the madi card at 96k and using 1 madi port giving me 32 channels to and from comp 1 and 2. if i route them as vst system link i/o's will the outs from the 2nd comp need to be offset to match the card buffer latency? or will system link delay compensate those channels from the 2nd comp as opposed to just hooking them up just as ins and outs? and i can use the aes from both cards for the sync and midi etc.for the syncing ...also does system link as being sample accurate respond to winding and shuttling from master comp? say i want the video to be on 2nd comp...also can i route sends from both comps to use 1 eff insert on any comp? i guess just use direct summing and route the send out to a separate pair out madi tracks...it can be confusing but can be very powerful!!!!!!
yes

digitalson
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Re: system link question

Post by digitalson » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:26 pm

Can I get some more details...system link ins from 2nd computer will be delay compensated? .and I can add the full 96 tracks to and from the madi card? Also a single madi channel would carry the vst system info?.this would be great if this works....can't test it yet...also will video shuttle and wind and frame up and down running on 2nd comp? ...thanks....sorry for all questions but if this works...this system would be super.....1more ...with sync station can I play video thru rs422 with shuttle and frame up down...I saw a hard drive rs422 recorder player where you can load a clip to the unit via usb and output hdmi ...anyone work with those units? Again thanks
i7 ,64gb 1866 mem x79 chipset, ssd os,4 x ssd drives raid 0 motu pci 96 ins and outs @96k for external gear
tons of vintage outboard gear 3 monitors and 42" LCD for spotting to film
Windows 7 pro 64 sp1
Gtx 780 ,all liquid cooled CPU overclocked to 4 ghz

Bernhard
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Re: system link question

Post by Bernhard » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:08 pm

Can I get some more details...system link ins from 2nd computer will be delay compensated?
Yes, systemlink knows the asio latency and compensates sample accurate so both comuters will play in sync.
and I can add the full 96 tracks to and from the madi card?
Yes
Also a single madi channel would carry the vst system info?.
You can use the AES port for system link and have all madi channels available.
Otherwise it would consume max 1 audio channel from one madi stream.
also will video shuttle and wind and frame up and down running on 2nd comp? .
Yes
Am I allowed to use the enter key when posting questions?
Yes
with sync station can I play video thru rs422 with shuttle and frame up down
I don't own a syncstation, but as far as I can tell, you don't need one, you can
-Use the Nuendo onscreen video from one of your computers.
-Use a Blackmagic Decklink Card (up to 4K)
-Use a cheap computer with MTC Video Slave http://www.mtcvideoslave.at/
-Use a cheap computer with Cubase as a video player.
-All this options will follow Nuendo's position fast and reliable.

Further comments:
System link makes both Nuendo rigs play in sync. If you create a bi-directional connection, you can use transport, locate etc. on both computers. Even locators will be synced.

If you route audio form one computer to the other, you have to deal with the input latency of the second computer, just like recording from a microphone. So make sure you use direct monitoring within Nuendo.

If you plan to use the second computer as an "inset effect", Nuendo can delay compensate this too

HTH,
Bernhard

digitalson
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Re: system link question

Post by digitalson » Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:25 pm

That is awesome. ..I have to test this...right now I only have a one way system link connection...bi direction Will allow me to operate both transports.yes?I guess 2nd comp will have to have ext sync on?
i7 ,64gb 1866 mem x79 chipset, ssd os,4 x ssd drives raid 0 motu pci 96 ins and outs @96k for external gear
tons of vintage outboard gear 3 monitors and 42" LCD for spotting to film
Windows 7 pro 64 sp1
Gtx 780 ,all liquid cooled CPU overclocked to 4 ghz

digitalson
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Re: system link question

Post by digitalson » Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:31 pm

If you route audio form one computer to the other, you have to deal with the input latency of the second computer, just like recording from a microphone. So make sure you use direct monitoring within Nuendo.


That's why I was asking about delay comp between comps..cause I want to run 2nd comp to process ext effs then route back to main comp via sl without delay....I will test somehow
i7 ,64gb 1866 mem x79 chipset, ssd os,4 x ssd drives raid 0 motu pci 96 ins and outs @96k for external gear
tons of vintage outboard gear 3 monitors and 42" LCD for spotting to film
Windows 7 pro 64 sp1
Gtx 780 ,all liquid cooled CPU overclocked to 4 ghz

digitalson
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Re: system link question

Post by digitalson » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:28 pm

Sorry one more question...
Can I temp disable transports in case one engineer is working on 1 system and I am working on other or third system? Whit phones of course so 3 out of sync playbacks don't play thru speakers at once..then toggle on...I did. Experiment with using muliptle monitors in control room ..and it worked well you can monitor all or 1 of any system ..but they won't be included in the mix down ............unless I mixdown using a ext source......anything else I need to know?. I checked out the aja video player recorder .it can be controlled via rs422 and is clip based by net and will play SDI or HDMI.it looks perfect for what I need...I could mixdown audio and video to another unit..,
i7 ,64gb 1866 mem x79 chipset, ssd os,4 x ssd drives raid 0 motu pci 96 ins and outs @96k for external gear
tons of vintage outboard gear 3 monitors and 42" LCD for spotting to film
Windows 7 pro 64 sp1
Gtx 780 ,all liquid cooled CPU overclocked to 4 ghz

digitalson
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:34 am
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Re: system link question

Post by digitalson » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:44 pm

Here's the link for aja

http://www.aja.com/en/products/ki-pro-rack

Thanks
i7 ,64gb 1866 mem x79 chipset, ssd os,4 x ssd drives raid 0 motu pci 96 ins and outs @96k for external gear
tons of vintage outboard gear 3 monitors and 42" LCD for spotting to film
Windows 7 pro 64 sp1
Gtx 780 ,all liquid cooled CPU overclocked to 4 ghz

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Brain
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Re: system link question

Post by Brain » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:14 pm

digitalson wrote: Can I temp disable transports in case one engineer is working on 1 system and I am working on other or third system?
I do not use System link like you are suggesting, but Yes..you should be able to run separate computers independently (un-synced) and the re-sync them when needed.

I use system link for transport control/sync only, I am not porting audio from 1 PC to another.
I use system link (from a Steinberg "timebase" which was their sync unit before the "Sync-station") to provide near ample accurate timecode lock between my console's transport controller with N6 and several other transports in our studio.

you set up how system link works (transport wise) in the "transport setup" window (found on the Transport pulldown menu).

to sync or un-sync the individual computers use the "Sync online" command from the transport menu (my default key command is "T")

"Sync online" activated that Computer is linked/sync'd to the master. "Sync online" deselected and that computer is independent. You will have to toggle on sync for each computer to get them to ALL sync together.

I end up having to steal half of a stereo AES input from 1 of my AES/MADI convertors in order to get the system link signal to communicate with my console's machine control. If you can use a separate AES input for system link you will not have to waste 1 pair of signals from your madi stream just for system link like I have to. You will have to determine if the connection is using the left or right side of the stereo AES signal.

Later,
Brain
1.
N6.5.40, N6.0.7, WL 8.5.20
3.50gHz i7, Win-7_Pro
RME HDSPe-MADI
Motu Micro-lite
Timebase
Euphonix System-5

2.
N7.0.30, N6.5.40, N6.0.7
2.66 gHz Core2 Quad, XP SP-2
RME HDSP-MADI (primary)
SSL Alphalink MADI-SX, Mixpander-5 (backup)

Bernhard
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Re: system link question

Post by Bernhard » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:45 pm

That's why I was asking about delay comp between comps..cause I want to run 2nd comp to process ext effs then route back to main comp via sl without delay....I will test somehow
In this signal flow you use the second computer as external insert for the main DAW.
Nuendo will measure the latency and compensate accordingly.

You can take every workstation out of sync and work locally.

Check out the Nuendo Network functionality, it's a killer feature for multiple operators working together.

Personally I would avoid adding RS422 control. It will work but make the sync setup complicated.
I fear it will be tricky to get RS422, Syncstation and bi-directional systemlink ring functionality.

ErikG
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Re: system link question

Post by ErikG » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:31 am

digitalson wrote:Sorry one more question...
Can I temp disable transports in case one engineer is working on 1 system and I am working on other or third system? Whit phones of course so 3 out of sync playbacks don't play thru speakers at once..then toggle on...I did.
This is where it starts to get a bit complex.

VST system link is a "ring" protocol really. So it really should be able to go around in circles, and if you use three machines and disable no 3, then the no 2 output to control no 1 is broken. There are possible workarounds but still, vst system link is very powerful, but also slightly limiting at times in certain setups.


We run three machines, but our setup is done like this:

Either the machines are in a ring config like this: Main>secondary>third>main.

Or like this:
Main>secondary>main +Main>third.
Main machine and secondary machine is connected with bidirectional vst system link. Any of those two machines can be run as "master" depending on the vst link setup.
The main machines vst link output is also sent to a third machine, but without loop back. So the tord machine can alway slave to the others, but not control them.
BUT this setup does NOT report the latency of the third machine to the main system, so it has to be set manually.

We can switch between the two setups pretty easily with our router changing how the signals get sent. It still isn't perfect, but not really bad either.
Filmlance, a Swedish production company producing drama and feature films.
11xNuendo, 5xPT
Dubstage with 4k Christie projection
8xMedia Composer, VFX, online, grading and more

digitalson
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Re: system link question

Post by digitalson » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:55 pm

Erikg pm me and I will show u. The setup
i7 ,64gb 1866 mem x79 chipset, ssd os,4 x ssd drives raid 0 motu pci 96 ins and outs @96k for external gear
tons of vintage outboard gear 3 monitors and 42" LCD for spotting to film
Windows 7 pro 64 sp1
Gtx 780 ,all liquid cooled CPU overclocked to 4 ghz

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