Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics.
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SoundOf
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Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by SoundOf » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:22 pm

Dear Steinberg

You are at risk of pushing many more people away from your products!

The new update, v10, compared to 9.5, is not worth the 100 euros (£85 for me) in a million years!
It should be 9.6 if that, to call it v10 and have the audacity to charge is pathetic, a rip off!

I do like Cubase, have been using it for years, currently on 9.5 Pro, but when I see the new changes to v10, nothing excites me, certainly not for the price you're charging!

Logic is much cheaper to buy outright, FL Studio is the same, Studio One offers update options from any older version for the same price etc!

You need to understand that most of the Cubase owners make music as a hobby, as in, they don't make any income out of it!

You seriously need to re-think your pricing strategy or you'll end up a dinosuar, left behind by your competition offering great software at realistic prices! Plenty of artists have had massive success with FL Studio, which I don't necessarily like but the point is, Cubase isn't required to make a hit song (even if a hit song is subjective)!
Before you start waffling on about the cheaper versions of Cubase, most doing it as a hobby try to give music making a real go so they go for the best tools (or thereabouts), only for most, it never works out but it's hard for them to give up! I am one of those, you never know, I could end up having lots of success but I am making a living doing a different job, not from music.
It's my choice of course, I'm not being forced to upgrade but one thing is guaranteed, all the plugins etc I also purchased, they get updated, and eventually, you have to upgrade the OS and DAW if you want to carry on making music, nothing lasts forever (including your success if you're not careful)!

Just my thoughts on this, I am sure there will be many who agree with this.
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by Daldo » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:36 am

+1
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by marQs » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:12 am

I can understand that opinion. My point of view is different though. For € 99 I got an easier to use VariAudio, at least the announcement of ARA implementation plus Auto Alignement on DAW level (those functions are the most attractive for me in 10). Synchro Arts VocAlign Project 3 is $ 99 alone when on sale. Can't complain about 10 in this regard.

I remember that 9 to 9.5 gave me more interesting features than 8.5 to 9. Maybe it's a new habit that .0 versions are more basic that .5 versions ;-)

And as stated, we're not forced to update at all. It's possible to work with a combi of OS and DAWs for years without updating but yes - there will be a point when you get stuck. That's the nature of the beast aka the mythical phantom of technical progress. Not sure if it was necessary to drop 32 bit plugins i.e. (myth) but possibly it was for the sake of not having to implement age old technology that might thwart current developments (phantoms) heading into the future.
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by ResonantMind » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:19 am

-Improvements in multicore/thread support
-improved VariAudio
-mixer snapshots (always dreamed of a feature likes this and always saved multiple .cprs for major mix revisions - time consuming, and difficult to mix and match)

I would say just these three things, from a professional standpoint, worth $100. There's time saved here which = more productivity = more projects = more money.

Cubase isn't needed to make a hit song, but believe it or not, there are jobs out there that are logistically more complicated than making a hit song.

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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by valsolim » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:56 am

The announced ARA2 support alone will be worth the money IMHO. I'm going to buy the update as soon as ARA finally arrives ;)
Also, I'm looking forward to the Mixer Snapshots feature - another worthy addition!
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by Dieselmachine » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:05 am

Absolutely disagree. It's worth it. Of course, not everybody needs all the introduced features and changes.
If you would have said this for the update of Groove Agent from version 4 to 5, I would be with you
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by Larioso » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:53 pm

I don't entirely agree.

AAF support - I think may be handy, especially if trend goes that also midi clips are supported eventually.
SRC improved - finally, really nice. Now Cubase compares to competition.

Snapshot - halfbaked - not useful all the way through a project, I see one phase plugin swap can be helpful.
But no automation - what else is there you vary at end of finalizing a mix and go for details?

Latency monitor - half baked, compared to ProTools which also shows how much a particular track is delayed in current situation, and the track delay field available there as well together with C10-type info on latency of loaded stuff on track.

What I seriously miss to compare to ProTools
a) context sensitive help - offline. I'm never online while working with audio or post, nor is Cubase properly context oriented.
b) latency monitor - as a rack module as in PT.
And as you mute tracks, this should update until you are down to acceptable for a late recording.
Sometimes vocalists wants more than just the very basic things(full mix usually not needed).
c) professional level of support - like Avid and Waves have, and Waves in particular is outstanding
I posted a Steinberg ticket 10 days ago - still no response - and at best you get something in two months, then asking you to create a new ticket if problem still exist - what is that?
Three years ago I posted a bug report - carefully made up with examples - just thrown away. No sign of it - I only have first confirmation left - and posted this to Steinberg after a year, no interest what so ever to see what that was about obviously.
A year ago some other people started post the same stuff on forum - and got a CAN for it - still not fixed even said to be on todo list.
Today Mathias confirmed he would personally act on this and see what is going on.

Charge for supoort with a subscription then - but give us a choice - now there isn't any.
4-5 years ago - you had attempts and quite good support actually,
Spreadsheet guys obviously saw that cost money - and removed it.

CP 9.5 was a killer update for me - proper pattern building for metronome, and there I feel developers really took the time to do a good job. Only DigitalPerformer compares, and to some degree Reaper.

Even features implemented I'm not in need of - but I see requested a lot on forum - that makes me a bit happy - Stein, does not mean Stone(well, it does actually), but listening to requests. There is a dialog, as also surveys of the last year or so - means having ears to the ground.
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by uarte » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:54 pm

Everyone has their own unique needs/situation, but for me, this was the easiest upgrade for Cubase in years and years. Worth $100 for sure.

For me, these are big:

1) Multi-thread improvements for high-core-count CPUs seem to be solid so far. Great! I've been asking and hoping for a while!

2) ARA 2 support forthcoming. Yes! Again, been asking for this! And they are delivering! That is a big deal and a sign that Steinberg recognizes the world doesn't revolve around them. It's a big step IMO... and by adopting the standard and yet still giving us VariAudio 3 and audio alignment, they are striking a GREAT balance.

3) AAF - finally. Also been asking for this!

4) Editing to picture - at last! Can't believe we didn't get this sooner. Been asking for years. But now we have it.

5) DOP improvements - thank you! Finally brought us feature parity with Nuendo on this! This feature in general was a bitter bone of contention previously, but it's greatly improved since its messy first days. Still needs love, but a good step forward.

6) VariAudio 3 -- didn't ask for it, since I use Melodyne... but this plus ARA is excellent! Thank you!

7) Audio alignment - yes! Thank you! I use Synchro Arts, but having something like this built-in -- even simple like this -- is extremely helpful. Again, this plus ARA is fantastic!

8) Interface improvements - thank you! Been asking for things like this... still not perfect, but a good step in the right direction.

9) Various minor but thoughtful workflow improvements -- great! Always welcome.

10) Various other minor but useful improvements... even an improved channel strip will come in handy!

This is a totally no-brainer upgrade IMO. This is absolutely worth $100. For people who don't have Melodyne Essential or any Synchro Arts products, this is ABSOLUTELY worth the money. All the other additions are excellent.

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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by fbeauvaisc » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:52 pm

uarte wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:54 pm

2) ARA 2 support forthcoming. Yes! Again, been asking for this! And they are delivering! That is a big deal and a sign that Steinberg recognizes the world doesn't revolve around them. It's a big step IMO... and by adopting the standard and yet still giving us VariAudio 3 and audio alignment, they are striking a GREAT balance.
Video export was also forthcoming 1 year ago. Still not present in this update.
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by Larioso » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:22 am

fbeauvaisc wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:52 pm
uarte wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:54 pm

2) ARA 2 support forthcoming. Yes! Again, been asking for this! And they are delivering! That is a big deal and a sign that Steinberg recognizes the world doesn't revolve around them. It's a big step IMO... and by adopting the standard and yet still giving us VariAudio 3 and audio alignment, they are striking a GREAT balance.
Video export was also forthcoming 1 year ago. Still not present in this update.
I belive new video engine was promised for v8.5 as well while waiting for it, but not happened - no update since march 2017, and it arrived for v9.0 july 2017.
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by gkillmaster » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:00 am

+1 to SoundOf
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by PeppaPig » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:16 pm

When they deliver ARA - that's worth the upgrade price alone - well, to me anyway. I'm sticking with 9.5 until it arrives!
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by Dmoore9396 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:17 pm

First, I'm not new to this forum. I took some time away from it and changed emails and forget my password. So, not a complete noob.

I'm mostly a hobbyist. Made some money, but not enough to matter. So I've made due with Cubase 5 since 2009. I have upgraded my machine. I have upgraded my 3rd party apps and plugs. I have been taking the long way around dealing with production issues in my old version of Cubase. I have got to upgrade Cubase at some point, and 10 looks like the ticket. So, a $300 upgrade for me, and yes, well worth it. I guess it's all about perspective. If you are in this just as a hobby and the $100 is prohibitive, then don't upgrade. You can produce fully professional recordings with the older versions. It's just a little more difficult. Sorry. End of sermon.

Happy to be back,

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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by windbag » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:47 am

+1

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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by uarte » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:29 am

fbeauvaisc wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:52 pm
uarte wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:54 pm

2) ARA 2 support forthcoming. Yes! Again, been asking for this! And they are delivering! That is a big deal and a sign that Steinberg recognizes the world doesn't revolve around them. It's a big step IMO... and by adopting the standard and yet still giving us VariAudio 3 and audio alignment, they are striking a GREAT balance.
Video export was also forthcoming 1 year ago. Still not present in this update.
Good point, but technically, the situation with the video engine was very different. I'm not trying to give an excuse to Steinberg, since I was one of the very vocal critics about this situation (you'll see me all over those threads very upset, lol). With the video engine, what they had promised was an actual new video engine by a certain time, which they wrote from scratch, including the codecs, and it took a LOT longer to develop than anticipated, and they kept missing their own self-announced timeframes, including failing to fulfill a big promise IMO. Not excuses, but in that process, they never actually set a timeframe for WHEN the *specific* video export feature itself was going to be included, and it was never mentioned in a big product launch like this as a headline feature. Instead, the video export feature was mentioned as *part* of the ongoing development and improvements of the new video engine, which was clearly going to take them a lot of time. So there was no "guarantee" that video export would show up in a particular version.

Contrast that to the ARA support, and it is ostensibly easier to implement that building an entirely new video engine from scratch, at least judging by the fact that several DAWs now have it in relatively short order, and the comments from those various developers don't imply that it is overly complex from my reading. But even if it is very complex to implement in Cubase for whatever reason, Steinberg has definitely PROMISED it as a headline feature in Cubase 10. I think given the heat and embarrassment they took over the long delays for the new video engine, they would be hesitant to repeat the same kind of mistake so soon, when the video engine fiasco is still a fresh wound for some people. So my guess is that ARA is almost certainly coming in the next while. Perhaps a few months, and I'm going to be pretty surprised if Steinberg blows this one.

Having said all that, you have a great point and it's certainly wise to be cautious expecting Steinberg to deliver on time given their recent track record.

On the other hand, at the very least, the very fact that they are working on it still suggests to me that Steinberg is listening to us, which is a very positive development. Let's see what happens though!

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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off - DEFINITELY

Post by Stvdio » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:29 pm

I bought Cubase 9.5 for under 400€ - regular price for the "used" version, now it's already going under 300 - a correct valuation of the product! Today I'm supposed to pay 99€ for a few updates I would never use - except for the sounds maybe, and there is a lot more sound available for that much cash! I am a hobby guy, just like to have the full features just in case. BUT: 33% of the market price value for a few insider tweaks? CRAZY!

I fear very much that Yamaha will loose a lot of customers that way and end up trashing the whole thing like Gibson trashed Sonar.

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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by currentsound » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:46 am

SoundOf wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:22 pm
You are at risk of pushing many more people away from your products!

The new update, v10, compared to 9.5, is not worth the 100 euros (£85 for me) in a million years!

I think the issue is more of a mentality of 10 being a full round number and the fact that Steinberg has in past typically been on the forefront of innovation and new ideas whereas this update is a little more playing catch-up with the competition. The most innovative idea was the mix console snapshots and that was an idea of mine that I suggested on the forums. I hope innovative people still work at Steinberg. I think the update is worth it for most people given all the extra sample library content and the workflow improvements. Those samples would cost more than 100 euro alone. Some of the updates are just for the future like ARA and high resolution display and 64bit mix engine and 32bit recording. Until manufactures start to support those things, the benefit is more in the future when you feel like updating to a high res or 4k monitor or ultrawide monitor. You can always update at 10.5 but the price will be more anyway. Cubase is still my favorite DAW and I've used all of them but I think people expected more mind blowing features compared to the history of Cubase and how is has historically been on the forefront of innovation.

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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by SoundOf » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:02 pm

Seems most of you are happy to upgrade, fair enough, but it's the same every year! If you don't upgrade, the cost goes up and up! With Reason, the cost of the upgrade is the same to the latest version from version 1 to 9, not the case with Cubase!
Maybe Steinberg are looking to become like Adobe Creative Cloud.
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by brainthrill » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:18 pm

I agree with the sentiments expressed here. I acted upon it! One month ago I switched to Logic Pro X for $259 as opposed to upgrading from Cubase Pro 8.5 for $300. I actually have been amazed at the depth of features and how intuitive the software has been - it is nothing like Gargage Band. I won't be looking back :) Sorry Steinberg!

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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by wickfut » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:24 am

I like the new distortion plug. Would have paid the upgrade price for that alone.
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by Psalmster » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:55 am

brainthrill wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:18 pm
I agree with the sentiments expressed here. I acted upon it! One month ago I switched to Logic Pro X for $259 as opposed to upgrading from Cubase Pro 8.5 for $300. I actually have been amazed at the depth of features and how intuitive the software has been - it is nothing like Gargage Band. I won't be looking back :) Sorry Steinberg!
What features particularly are you impressed with about Logic that you prefer to Cubase?

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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by teebeefree » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:42 pm

an easy to use sampler that doesnt cost £250 after youve bought the daw!
Can cubase also map midi phrases to keys so they can be triggered that way?

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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by jimmycooper » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:01 pm

I would upgrade from 9.5-10 if it wasnt $150. cdn. Too much imho.

Does anyone recall a sale at some point last year,and when that is expected in 2019??

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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by Grim » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:25 pm

jimmycooper wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:01 pm
Does anyone recall a sale at some point last year,and when that is expected in 2019??
There were both update and upgrade sales in the summer.
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Re: Upgrade - an absolute rip off or not

Post by IMAWriterRobJ » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:07 am

SoundOf wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:22 pm


You need to understand that most of the Cubase owners make music as a hobby, as in, they don't make any income out of it!

[/i])!

Amazingly incorrect. Cubase is probably top 3 with PROFESSIONALS who make music for a living. Hundreds of hit songs are mixed and recorded on Cubase here in Nashville. This update offers an "app" that does a simplified, but effective "replication" of the awesome Revoice software...included in the update. IMO that alone is worth the price of the update. I don't care for some bugs that still exist, nor the Euro color scheme, but like most things, one adjusts.
BTW, where's the "OR NOT" in your post? Your lack of knowledge regarding Cubase PRO sadly makes you sound more like a troll than a Cubase user.
No software is perfect, and that includes Cubase. Maybe those using the cheaper versions share your feelings, but most pros I work with don't share your opinion.
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