Cubase for Linux

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MrSoundman
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MrSoundman » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:29 pm

I'm quiety chuffed and pleasantly surprised to see "Cubase for Linux" score 17th place out of 50 suggestions in the feature requests poll.
Looks like there's demand for it after all! 8-)
Windows 10 • Cubase 9.5.50 • WaveLab 9.5.50 • SpectraLayers 6.0.10 • HALion 6.3.0 • Groove Agent 5.0.10 • Midex

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by creativesound » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:29 pm

I think it is time for you guys at Steinberg to put attention on this topic.
For many people Linux is a great alternative to Windows, especially to Windows 10 because of their
stupid update policies (doing updates when it wants and not letting the user decide when to update) and Windows 7 is not supported anymore either.

It is a prejudice that Linux users are either hackers or people who do not want to pay!
In fact I am a Linux user and I would not hesitate to upgrade to Cubase 10 Pro, if there was a linux version.

You already did a Unix-Version 'cause you wanted to address Apple users, well Linux is very similar to
Unix/MacOS so there should be no great effort in making a linux version.

In terms of support: Concentrate on Cubase itself and the interface between cubase and the underlying audio server
(PulseAudio or even Jack). I think there will be enough people who care to make this interface work properly (I have good experience
with people investing time to help people just getting their computers to work like they want).
And don't be irritated about the vast amount of distributions. Pick one of the most popular (RedHat, Ubuntu or even
OpenSuse if you want something with German Origin, Manjaro is partly German too, by the way) and stick to it, the
people who really want to use Cubase will either use this distro or have enough knowledge on how to get it working
on their own distro (or consider using flatpak or think about making it distro-independent if you want). There
are people who did the step towards linux (Blackmagic with Davinci Resolve, VMWare with virtualisation software) maybe
there are people who wanna help you, who knows.

I think it is mandatory to move towards linux, Microsoft has fun mocking around with its users and Apple is creating products many people
cannot afford or do not want to afford. I in my humble opinion would be very greatful if I did not have to dual-boot every time I want to
make music.

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Benutzername
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by Benutzername » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:53 pm

Using Cubase on Linux would be fantastic but honestly I don't think that anyone really needs Cubase to make great music on Linux.

Linux users have native versions of Bitwig, REAPER, Tracktion, Renoise, Mixbus, Ardour, MuseScore, Resolve and several other great music and video applications. The commercial DAWs all come with the same included plugins and content as on all other platforms. Additionally there are tons of free and paid plugins and sample libraries out there to pick and choose from (eg VCV Rack or all u-he plugins). If you just look at the features of the available applications then just adding Cubase would actually not bring a lot of new things to the table. It just would make working a lot more convenient for us.

Some "Industry standard" plugins like Autotune and Melodyne are missing but personally I think that this is a good thing for the resulting music (YMMV of course). If your workflow heavily depends on huge proprietary sample collections (virtual orchestras, Komplete, Omnisphere etc) then switching will not be easy unless the creators of those libraries are going Linux too. This is not as implausible as it seems because at the end of the day all these libraries are just using a small group of sample engines anyway and these are already cross platform. If these also get ported to Linux then all sample libraries will automatically be available on Linux too.

Because of the popularity of smartphones and tablets almost all new music related hardware has to be class compliant in this day and age. So hardware support really isn't a problem anymore under Linux.

In summary: Having Cubase (and Nuendo for that matter) on Linux would be great but they are late to the party.

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by skijumptoes » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:44 pm

Benutzername wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:53 pm
In summary: Having Cubase (and Nuendo for that matter) on Linux would be great but they are late to the party.
Not in regards to the average audio users perspective it wouldn't be late, Apple's pricing and hardware options have been crazy recent years for audio users, Many longstanding windows users have mis-trust in using Win 10

From an audio users perspective Cubase would be pretty damn big news on Linux - it's an ideal middle ground for anyone caught in the abyss from each major OS. Cheesegrater/Xeon Mac Pro users, for example, would jump on that *flower* big time i think.

For me audio on linux isn't a great experience still - Ardour/mixbus is good but it's no cubase, REAPER is just really unstable for me vs Mac/Win - a full install of Cubase Pro, that runs well - would have most elements i need to make produce music without having to worry about setting up external plugins/apps. And of course, Steinberg bringing it's VST platform to Linux only helps the whole development of VST plugins that can be used in Linux (Of which there's very few atm).

The trouble, as always though, is that majority of Linux users want stuff for pennies and expect applications to embrace the open source nature of Linux as a whole... That ain't really Steinbergs thing. :)

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by Benutzername » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:33 pm

skijumptoes wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:44 pm
The trouble, as always though, is that majority of Linux users want stuff for pennies and expect applications to embrace the open source nature of Linux as a whole... That ain't really Steinbergs thing. :)
In practice exactly the opposite is true. Linux users are just way more aware of what a specific piece of software is worth (or not). If you look at "pay what you want" offers then Linux users usually pay the most in average and the highest minimum values while the share of Windows users that pay only 1$ is extremely high and the average money spent is also very poor. MacOs sits somewhere in the middle.

Linux users usually don't buy crapware like registry cleaners or fancy security suites for Windows or all these extra tools that you need to turn MacOS into something that is actually usable on a day to day basis. Additionally many smaller commercial programs are just not significantly better than the native Linux tools that serve the same purpose so there is rarely a need to spend any money here. Linux users usually don't have a problem with spending money for grown up programs like CAD programs, DAWs, video editors or the like. Compared to some CAD systems Cubase and even Nuendo are actually pretty cheap (by a margin).

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MrSoundman » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:36 pm

What you pay for when you "buy" a Steinberg software product is the license on the USB hardware protection device. The license on the USB-eLicenser is the product, therefore the argument that Linux users would not pay for Cubase is invalid, as they would have paid for the license already.

We just want the option of using Linux in the same was as others use Windows and OSX.
Windows 10 • Cubase 9.5.50 • WaveLab 9.5.50 • SpectraLayers 6.0.10 • HALion 6.3.0 • Groove Agent 5.0.10 • Midex

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:29 pm

Benutzername wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:33 pm
In practice exactly the opposite is true. Linux users are just way more aware of what a specific piece of software is worth (or not). If you look at "pay what you want" offers then Linux users usually pay the most in average and the highest minimum values while the share of Windows users that pay only 1$ is extremely high and the average money spent is also very poor. MacOs sits somewhere in the middle.

Linux users usually don't buy crapware like registry cleaners or fancy security suites for Windows or all these extra tools that you need to turn MacOS into something that is actually usable on a day to day basis. Additionally many smaller commercial programs are just not significantly better than the native Linux tools that serve the same purpose so there is rarely a need to spend any money here. Linux users usually don't have a problem with spending money for grown up programs like CAD programs, DAWs, video editors or the like. Compared to some CAD systems Cubase and even Nuendo are actually pretty cheap (by a margin).
But I think you're talking about different market segments though.

Yes, of if you're a customer that is a large company and the best solution is a Linux distro to run render software on, or other software, and it's all mission critical - you'll pay for it. That's obviously the case. But on the other hand in our industry those with such deep pockets are already running Pro Tools or maybe Nuendo, and they're doing so with few problems (due to the OS'). They don't really need Linux.

And so that really leaves other potential Linux users, and I tend to agree there with skijump that a lot of those are really not willing to spend money, certainly not $200 for a Win 10 Pro license.

And on that note I suppose, when you say it's more common to see Windows users pay a buck then I just have to say that I disagree with it from a logical standpoint: Those users are the ones he's talking about (I think). They're the ones that would rather move to Linux and pay nothing for the distro than to jump through hoops to get cheap stuff on Windows (or cheap Windows itself).

It all boils down to whether or not it's profitable for Steinberg to spend a bunch of money on developing for Linux.

Since you made these claims about spending habits I'd love to see a source for those stats. Specifically I'd like to see what type of user spends how much on the various platforms.
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:32 pm

MrSoundman wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:36 pm
What you pay for when you "buy" a Steinberg software product is the license on the USB hardware protection device. The license on the USB-eLicenser is the product, therefore the argument that Linux users would not pay for Cubase is invalid, as they would have paid for the license already.
The above is really an argument for Steinberg NOT porting to Linux.

If everyone has already paid then why would Steinberg spend money for zero increased revenue? That makes zero sense.

Either it matters so much to users that they'll only spend money on Steinberg products if they're Linux compatible, in which case it's a relatively straight forward calculation to see if it's worth spending on porting - or it doesn't matter that much to users and they'll make their decision about whether or not to spend on other issues... in which case why spend on porting?
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MrSoundman » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:09 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:32 pm
If everyone has already paid then why would Steinberg spend money for zero increased revenue?
You're making the unfounded assumption that offering a Linux option would not increase revenue.
Windows 10 • Cubase 9.5.50 • WaveLab 9.5.50 • SpectraLayers 6.0.10 • HALion 6.3.0 • Groove Agent 5.0.10 • Midex

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by skijumptoes » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:54 pm

MrSoundman wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:09 pm
You're making the unfounded assumption that offering a Linux option would not increase revenue.
He was replying to your "Linux users would not pay for Cubase is invalid, as they would have paid for the license already." remark in a rhetorical way.

Linux would of course increase revenue, but it may not increase profits. I don't know how hard it would be to port Cubendo but i'd love to see it, they're already releasing the same patches for Mac/Win so they've got a framework there to build on - i've tried Linux for audio for years and years, and still waiting for the plugin support and DAW that suits me to come along in Linux, it's close, but i can't make the compromises at this point in time.

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by IcecreamisDelicious » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:06 am

Hi there! Linux user here, allow me to share some of my thoughts over this thread and about the possibility of Cubase on Linux.

So I've read of people having some problems with Linux in one way or another. I firmly believe (and can be demonstrated) that all the tools available for audio production on Linux are fantastic, but even their creators admit that their tools may not do everything as expected, so comparisons of the like "Ardour is good or great, but not Cubase" (Unless this was referred to the personal perception of how they prefer a DAW or a tool to work with, like saying "FL is good, but is not Cubase", but that's an entirely different thing) well obviously, they are different DAWs with different approaches (each one has its own strengths and weaknesses), so are the others already available on Linuxland. And they have different workflows that suits someone's else perspective so this is a very YMMV.

With that out of the way, I think if someone has experienced those problems they could reach places like libremusicproduction and linuxmusicians.com, in which they offer tips, suggestions and fix-mes on how to do things, I think if someone has the time and effort they can indeed make awesome music with any of the tools already natively available. I will however, state, that Linux won't do everything, and if your particular setups requires a ton of sample libraries, exclusive VSTs or certain workflows that can only be achieved with your native DAW, then I won't recommend those people to switch. If they have tight deadlines, jobs to comply and stuff to do™ then Linux isn't going to be their major choice and that's completely understandable. If they are also more comfortable with a Windows or macOS-exclusive DAW and feel is better for their overall personal experience then I also won't tell them to switch because is what they are most comfortable with and are able to do their stuff on. Learning a new DAW does requires getting used to new concepts and models so is not always the best idea in mind.

Lastly and now back to Steinberg's Cubase. Which I think is what matters and is on-topic for this discussion, so from a technical standpoint. It is definitely possible, latest Cubase has a Qt interface, right? If so, you would only need to find pre-existing libraries that can get you the work of the backend engine and you're ready to go. If companies like Bitwig and rock, who are really tiny in scope (one only has 10 persons, out of 6 programmers, and the other is a two-man combo) were capable of doing Linux ports, then the subsidiary of a multinational like Yamaha with reportedly 180 employees surely can.

From people's standpoint, it can vary I suppose. I wouldn't certainly mind another DAW available natively on the platform, the more the merrier! We do have plenty of tools already to make music so adding one to the mix only gives more choice to us, obviously not all audio users of Linux are going to jump into Cubase if it was ported but I imagine they could take a look at it and see how it is, give it a try as some people say, they may like it or not. In the end, isn't having more and more choice what matters? Windows or macOS users certainly don't complain when a new DAW enters the foray at least.

From a business standpoint, eh...I kind of doubt Steinberg would do a Linux port. It got into the feature list of which it got a good position (as seemingly it'll be among the ones who gets the most attention, or so the top 25 separation would led me to believe), but if their business relies primarily on selling hardware and software. Why bother putting out a Linux port? Even if it was possible? I half-expect a big fat "No" when the time comes for them to answer. Not because I will speculate about their financials, available programmers, man resources, etc. but simply because it doesn't seem like the kind of company who would put out their flagship product into another OS, with possible profits in it, or not.

Mind you, these are my impressions, how I view things, how I interpret them. If I am proven wrong later down the like and they do a Linux port, cool! I guess, if they don't, cool! I guess. Is not a "Who is right and who isn't?" game for me, is simply a very basic analysis of how I feel about the whole situation overall. Personally, I think they could start with small steps (port their other VSTs to Linux little by little, or make an alpha/beta test of Cubase to see if it works down their line) but if their managers or engineers aren't interested nor anyone at the company, then there won't be Cubase on Linux, as simply as that. The only choice people have at this point is to wait and see what the company says.

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:15 am

MrSoundman wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:09 pm
MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:32 pm
If everyone has already paid then why would Steinberg spend money for zero increased revenue?
You're making the unfounded assumption that offering a Linux option would not increase revenue.
The sentence begins with "if", because I wasn't - and am not - following your logic.

Yes, those who buy Cubase buy a license technically, and that license is platform agnostic.

But you imply that offering Linux would increase revenue, and that would mean gaining new users, not the ones that already bought Cubase for other platforms. So the distinction is essentially irrelevant unless you're trying to say there is no difference in revenue because all that would happen is that users would move over from Win/OSX to Linux.

So again, the question is how many people there are out there that want to use Cubase but are not going to spend money on it because it isn't on Linux, but if it became available for Linux then would buy the license. Every user that has already bought a license or are going to buy a license without Cubase running on Linux are irrelevant to conversation of increasing profit, or at the very least paying for increased expenses.

See my point?
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

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