Cubase for Linux

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jamatulli
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by jamatulli » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:41 pm

I've read some pretty ridiculous things on this thread and some fairly intelligent ones. Typical of an web forum.

This is obviously a business decision for Steinberg. The real question is whether Linux will emerge as an easy to use, easy to setup desktop platform, with solid hardware support that is adopted around the world by a large enough community over the next five to 10 years to make it worth it for Steinberg to start to develop it now.

They could, for example, try porting to it in an alpha release. That would make some sense if they want to test the market. In the end only they can answer say what it would likely cost them, the potential return and thus the risk.

No open source multi-tracking software has significant market share but this too may change if emerging markets start to contribute. Much of the contribution to open source software over the last decade has come from places like India, South America and the former Soviet Union. Whether this will makes its way into recording software in a significant way is, for me at leas, a complete unknown. It is quite possible though and this would mean that a viable free alternative to Cubase could grow into have part of their current market share as younger musicians in the U.S., Europe, Australia, etc. also look for the cheapest possible starting point.

Linux is not for everyone, but then neither is Windows or OS X. I've used all three in countless variations and its pretty obvious what the advantages and disadvantages of each are.

Linux is free and open source but hardware manufacturers don't always make drivers and the open source community makes up only some of this. You need to be more tech savvy and have more time and patience. Software availability is an issue although that is becoming less of a concern.

OSX is expensive and everything pretty much just works. Its not for the price conscious but it is very stable.

Windows of course works on the largest variety of hardware and is solidly in the middle of easy of use and cost. It is also notoriously unstable. Sure if all you do is one thing like music recording than great. That just isn't everyones use case.

Personally I think Linux will see a significant rise in "desktop" market share over the next decade thanks in large part to Android development and its low cost of entry. It definitely shouldn't be dismissed especially given the massive improvements in UI and driver compatibility that have come about over the last 5 years.

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MrSoundman » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:44 pm

Hi jamatulli and welcome to the forum!

Thank you for your thought-provoking, rational, and above all, non-hysterical contribution.
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by Norlick » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:59 pm

Hey guys, I'm new to these forums, but just wanted to throw in my 2c.

First of all, let's be real here -- nothing just works on any platform when it comes to audio engineering.

That said I think porting Cubase wouldn't be as difficult as has been speculated. Recently Unity3D, one of the major game development frameworks, ported their editor to linux. This is an application that spans physics simulation, audio processing, 3D graphics, input device management, network communication, script interpreters and more; It's at the very least of comparable complexity to Cubase.

Prior to this, the talk from the devs was that it was impossible due to third party libraries, financially unjustifiable because of the install base... Basically all the stuff that always gets thrown around about porting to linux.
But they did it, it wasn't as hard as they expected, and their very first, raw-as-hell release worked really, really well and was perfectly compatible with the editors on other platforms.

What I think would be a bigger problem, is that Cubase would be competing with Ardour, which is at pretty much the same level of functionality and has already established itself among linux users. You can also get Ardour for a dollar; I don't see Steinberg being very keen about competing on price, and competing on features would be hard.

But ignoring that, I think if Unity3D devs can do it, Steinberg certainly could do it better :)

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by VinnieD » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:07 pm

Although I am myself considering options after the Win10 'malware' forced onto consumer pc's, I don't feel porting to Linux is a solution. It will only add another layer of complexity... all PC and Mac configs will need to be tested on Linux (whichever version) too, at least doubling up QA resource requirements... are we really waiting to be full time beta testers for Steinberg?

I believe that it is the user who has to address hardware/ os requirements on his end. In case you need Cubase as money maker, you will be responsible for the system you make money with, so indeed precautions such aas never updating a working machine/ disconnecting from internet/ testing new versions parrallel to the working version are a no brainer...

In case you are a 'amateur' (from 'amor') user, such as I am, you will have more freedom to experiment/ goof things up (installing updates without testing, etc), but will run the risk of messing up your DAW or other components...

I guess when the hobby becomes bigger and bigger, amateur users will become semi pros and will pay more attention to/ for their set ups...

I myself am now considering a separate Mac for my next big hardware update, to get me a more stable system since macs are only to be tested on at about 12 configs, or at least a finite amount of hardware... which will never be the case on PC/ Linux (infinite configs)
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by VinnieD » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:08 pm

Norlick wrote:Hey guys, I'm new to these forums, but just wanted to throw in my 2c....
Welcome!
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by NorthWood MediaWorks » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:56 pm

I love that this topic keeps on growing... the detractors will not succeed in sweeping it under the rug. ;)

The economics of it is really the stopping block, as well pointed out.

I've tried Ardour, its okay, but no Cubase.

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by mroekalea » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:05 pm

We have Bitwig, tracktion, ardour for linux, options are growing already and bitwig and tracktion are nice DAWS!

For the record, I'm not a supporter of Cubase for linux, but this has little to do with Linux more with the release strategy of Steinberg itself, they seem to be over-committed at some points when releasing stuff besides Cubase and Nuendo.
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by glucksoul » Mon May 23, 2016 9:59 pm

I'm a Windows user because of Cubase. This means I'm stuck with Windows and can't use Linux just because Steinberg thinks Linux as an option is not a good idea. Actually there's no plausible excuse not to go Linux.
Yes, I know there are a lot of free and paid audio pro apps for Linux, and some with great quality, but they're not Cubase!

For several years now, I'm still on Window$ just because a long time ago I decided to buy Cubase, and am still a faithful user.
I'm thinking about a dual boot, were Windows would be used only for Cubase, and Linux would be for everything else. But then I had to reboot everytime I need Cubase.

P.S.: Please don't blame an O.S. just because you don't know how to use it.

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by lukasbrooklyn » Tue May 24, 2016 8:59 pm

glucksoul wrote:I'm a Windows user because of Cubase. This means I'm stuck with Windows and can't use Linux just because Steinberg thinks Linux as an option is not a good idea. Actually there's no plausible excuse not to go Linux.
Yes, I know there are a lot of free and paid audio pro apps for Linux, and some with great quality, but they're not Cubase!

For several years now, I'm still on Window$ just because a long time ago I decided to buy Cubase, and am still a faithful user.
I'm thinking about a dual boot, were Windows would be used only for Cubase, and Linux would be for everything else. But then I had to reboot everytime I need Cubase.

P.S.: Please don't blame an O.S. just because you don't know how to use it.
what would be SB's incentive to lose money on porting and maintaining an ecosystem that isn't being used by people in the target industry? i would suggest the dual boot route.
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
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cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu May 26, 2016 10:18 pm

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I just don't see any big issues with Windows, and I don't see any big benefits with Linux.....
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by Oedipus Driftpunch » Fri May 27, 2016 1:45 am

glucksoul wrote:I'm a Windows user because of Cubase. This means I'm stuck with Windows and can't use Linux just because Steinberg thinks Linux as an option is not a good idea. Actually there's no plausible excuse not to go Linux.
Yes, I know there are a lot of free and paid audio pro apps for Linux, and some with great quality, but they're not Cubase!

For several years now, I'm still on Window$ just because a long time ago I decided to buy Cubase, and am still a faithful user.
I'm thinking about a dual boot, were Windows would be used only for Cubase, and Linux would be for everything else. But then I had to reboot everytime I need Cubase.

P.S.: Please don't blame an O.S. just because you don't know how to use it.

Which takes a minute. Poor thing

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MrSoundman » Fri May 27, 2016 9:45 am

Lydiot wrote:Maybe I'm an idiot, but I just don't see any big issues with Windows, and I don't see any big benefits with Linux.....
For some users, the only reason to maintain a Windows installation is in order to run Cubase. Happy Windows or OS X users are not being asked to change; it is merely a suggestion to Steinberg that the ever-growing community of Linux users might appreciate having a choice.
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MattiasNYC » Fri May 27, 2016 3:15 pm

MrSoundman wrote:
Lydiot wrote:Maybe I'm an idiot, but I just don't see any big issues with Windows, and I don't see any big benefits with Linux.....
For some users, the only reason to maintain a Windows installation is in order to run Cubase. Happy Windows or OS X users are not being asked to change; it is merely a suggestion to Steinberg that the ever-growing community of Linux users might appreciate having a choice.
Ok.

Is it an "ever-growing community" though? And how large is the community?

You'll have to forgive the rest of us for not wanting Steinberg to commit to servicing yet another OS when they still struggle to release versions without major issues for the two they now support.
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MrSoundman » Fri May 27, 2016 3:26 pm

Lydiot wrote:You'll have to forgive the rest of us for not wanting Steinberg to commit to servicing yet another OS
We've been around this loop several times already on this thread; by that logic, the best thing that could happen for Windows users would be for Steinberg to stop Apple (OS X and iOS) development.
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by NorthWood MediaWorks » Fri May 27, 2016 4:11 pm

There are an estimated 85 million Linux users worldwide. 8-)

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MattiasNYC » Fri May 27, 2016 6:09 pm

MrSoundman wrote:
Lydiot wrote:You'll have to forgive the rest of us for not wanting Steinberg to commit to servicing yet another OS
We've been around this loop several times already on this thread; by that logic, the best thing that could happen for Windows users would be for Steinberg to stop Apple (OS X and iOS) development.
If you think reductio ad absurdum is ok in this case, then 'yes' I suppose. But I obviously think there's a tradeoff between Steinberg having a wide userbase that pays so that there's a benefit (profit) to develop for those users. I'm just saying that I think the userbase for OSX/Win is large enough, but for Linux I doubt it is... and on that note:
NorthWood MediaWorks wrote:There are an estimated 85 million Linux users worldwide. 8-)
That might be true. It's hard to find info on it. But the info I found on Windows, from 2011 (because I'm too lazy and busy to search for more) shows 1,250 million Windows PCs, with 500 million Win 7 licenses bought between 2009 and 2011.

So, the question is how many of those users actually make music and pay for music software doing so (?). I'm guessing there's a bunch for Windows (pure volume), a bunch for Mac (especially as a fraction of OSX owners), and not that many for Linux (in either case).

Why invest in r&d for it?
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MrSoundman » Fri May 27, 2016 6:22 pm

Fair enough, but just to clarify this one point:
Lydiot wrote:I obviously think there's a tradeoff between Steinberg having a wide userbase that pays so that there's a benefit (profit) to develop for those users
... I'm not suggesting there be an open-source or non-paid version, the only difference would be that, along with the Windows and OSX installers, there be a Linux installer as well. The license would still be on the USB eLicenser and cost the same regardless of which version the customer wanted to use. I'm just suggesting the option.
Lydiot wrote:Why invest in r&d for it?
Why not? Way back in this thread I pointed out that it might not be as difficult as imagined, seeing as the product is already cross-platform and uses open-source technologies (Qt). It's surely at least worth asking the question whether offering a Linux version in addition to the existing Windows and OSX versions might win over some of that 85 million who would otherwise have chosen something like Bitwig or Mixbus.
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MattiasNYC » Fri May 27, 2016 6:45 pm

MrSoundman wrote:Fair enough, but just to clarify this one point:I'm not suggesting there be an open-source or non-paid version, the only difference would be that, along with the Windows and OSX installers, there be a Linux installer as well. The license would still be on the USB eLicenser and cost the same regardless of which version the customer wanted to use. I'm just suggesting the option.
I understood that.
MrSoundman wrote:
Lydiot wrote:Why invest in r&d for it?
Why not? Way back in this thread I pointed out that it might not be as difficult as imagined, seeing as the product is already cross-platform and uses open-source technologies (Qt). It's surely at least worth asking the question whether offering a Linux version in addition to the existing Windows and OSX versions might win over some of that 85 million who would otherwise have chosen something like Bitwig or Mixbus.
Like I said, I doubt it'd be worth the hassle. I just don't think the profit margin is there.
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by Nero11 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:51 pm

Hello,
this is my first message and before all I want to make clear that not write with the intention of polemics, I just want to give my opinion. Sorry I do not speak English, I translate with a simultaneous translator.

I read here some statements that seem a bit contradictory. Some argue that Steinberg does not release Linux versions as a matter of possible hacking your soft. The present piracy targets Windows OS:

People who are dedicated professionally or love of music, we are willing to pay for good software. I do not dedicate myself professionally and have different licenses payment: Cubase, Sonar, several plugins. . . Many Linux users are, as in my case that we wanted to use our software legally acquired in Linux. Not everyone can afford a computer or apple all we do not want Windows Apple, for different or the same reasons.

Microsoft is an empire that dominates the market, like Apple but far more dangerous, since it reaches more users. Dangerous in the sense of control, which exerts on the user, their data, their tastes, their fears, their intimacies, Microsoft uses all this data to their advantage, not caring that comes to exposing the user, just thinking in dollars . This information includes not only, help you Facebook and other companies and thousands of ignorance or negligence of the user.

It is easy to find a pirate Windows system. It is casual? Windows has devised ways to grow almost essential? Maybe yes. For now it allowed to upgrade to Windows 10 from previous versions for free. Windows 10 is the dominant OS and will be even more, to see him in a comic mode and the unsettling, consider the Skynet Terminator. In Windows 10, there is no privacy and not believe me can learn a bit and see that I am right. In Linux there is privacy and free choice of all. Your computer belongs to you and not vice versa.

Microsoft imposes, Intel, Asus, Steinberg, Cakewalk. . . directly or indirectly. Apple does the same. The main problem starts with the hardware companies, which are the first that should give a fist on the table. After the software.

Why NASA, Google, Facebook and others use Linux on their servers? A word and an equivalence: Security = Privacy.

Mr. Steinberg, should I sell my license Cubase if I do not want to use Windows and do not want or can not acquire I Apple computer? If the answer is yes, I have it clear, you stay there.

PS: My Windows license is original, like Cubase. I've paid.

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by TEEF » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:03 am

Yes. Sell your license. Go buy an 8 or 16 track tape machine.
TEEF

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by roughael » Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:54 pm

Hello,

right now I'm using Cubase on Windows 7 und that works fine for me, but I'm sure I won't make the next step to Windows 10 or higher for several reasons. My next OS will be some Linux distro. I would appreciate it if Steinberg would make a step towards Linux and I don't think I'm the only one. There are several Linux distros wich have a better GUI than Windows and are much more stable. On Ubuntu for example you don't have to have any commandline experience at all.
And I don't think I'm the only one who's fed up with reinstalling Windows every now and then because it's slowing down after some time...

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by NorthWood MediaWorks » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:00 pm

Privacy? Unplug your DAW from the network. Simple. Surf on another machine, like a linux box. 8-)

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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by ColinPark » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:21 pm

There might be issues with the way linux handles sound. Perhaps not an issue if Cubase deals with audio interface hardware that bypasses the normal sound system (which is what I do on win 10). (BTW, I'm one of those who has windows only because of Cubase/RME.) I remember measuring latency on a regular linux a few years back, before they decided to change the way it works. This would have been fedora 10 or so. Latency was over 26 msec with lots of drop outs. Utterly unusable, clearly inferior to Windows 95 from 20 years previous. Linux developers simply thought of sound as something you hear, not something you want to make. So it was kind of backward, and perhaps this is still the case. Very confusing with Jack, OSS, ALSA, one app wiping out sound from another. I don't think it's stable or reliable, but I don't really know. I can imagine a configuration nightmare. Linux changes faster than other OS as well. It's high maintenance, with many opportunities will arise for incompatibilities. You need to use something like yum (powered by DNF) in my distro, just to do mundane software updates.

Apparently Linux DAWs are working OK, but why should I look into them when there's so much Cubase to learn as it is?
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by MrSoundman » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:38 pm

The latest VST SDK (for developers) now has Linux support. Perhaps we may see Cubase for Linux after all! :D
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Re: Cubase for Linux

Post by PeppaPig » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:18 am

If the core of MacOS Cubase code is written to POSIX standards then porting it to Linux is not particularly difficult - only the GUI code would require much attention, even then, both platforms support OpenGL. MacOS isn't particularly efficient - particularly when lots of file i/o is involved. I'd expect a solid Linux distro to out-perform it - although the audio prioritisation is embeded into the architecture which is one nod in the Mac's favour. Developing for Mac and Linux would be far easier and cheaper than developing for Mac and Windows.
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