Antsy for Eight - System Backup, Prep & First Impressions

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Antsy for Eight - System Backup, Prep & First Impressions

Post by Jalcide » Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:09 am

Excited, anxious, worried, confident, trepidatious and supportive, all at the same time.

I know this will devolve into bullet lists, but how do we feel about this important release.

I'm not crazy (questionable), it is important, right?

7.5.x has been the most stable for me. I could live on this version for years if I had to (but don't want to).

Bottom line: We had 7.5 around this time, a year ago. 7.5.40 has been confirmed, but isn't likely to make 2014 (as I hope the coders are taking a much needed break very soon).

Almost for sure, v8 isn't well into until next year.

7.5.40 is going to be almost 100% bug fixes, stability and compatibility issues, I'm sure.

Which hopefully will not add additional bugs for anyone (a tough job).

So, how do we feel about this "delay" of v8 and about it in general?

Cheers.
Last edited by Jalcide on Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by enjneer » Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:49 am

Jalcide wrote:Excited, anxious, worried, confident, trepidatious and supportive, all at the same time.
I feel the same. :?
Jalcide wrote: ...how do we feel about this important release.

I'm not crazy (questionable), it is important, right?
They're all important, but, I guess it's a question of perspective. I rely on Cubase to make a living. Unless it's a complete rewrite--which is doubtful, since 7 was supposedly a deep rewrite--I'm pretty committed to waiting a while before relying on it.
Jalcide wrote: 7.5.x has been the most stable for me. I could live on this version for years if I had to (but don't want to).
Lucky you! I'm jealous. 7.5+ has been incredibly buggy for me.

[strummed acoustic guitar starts up] ...I remember when I opened my home studio for business in '09 with, what--Cubase 4? I could do practically anything I wanted. Just insane amounts of ... everything! Low latencies... Put the Mac to sleep and resume a 75-track mix... Just insane. The most solid DAW setup I've ever seen in my life. Anywhere.

Now, 7.5.3 crashes on open... on close... it now crashes and doesn't even set off the Crash Reporter in OSX. I'm getting odd behaviours almost every outing now. Nothing I can't work around, and nothing fatal, per se, but lots of little delays and nuisances--that are embarrassing in front of clients.
7.5.40 is going to be almost 100% bug fixes, stability and compatibility issues, I'm sure.
Your faith is touching, Jalcide. I'll believe it when I can go a week without seeing "Video Service" errors. That has been a bug--loudly posted about on this forum--for about 4 years. Still, nothing. Steinberg's last word? "Solved!" But it's not. Four years!
So, how do we feel about this "delay" of v8 and about it in general?
I'm totally excited, don't get me wrong. The redesigned MixConsole in 7 and many of the features introduced in each version is totally exciting. What will they come up with for 8? Can't wait to see. Steinberg have always been leaders--pioneers, even--of DAWs. The tools they have created keep them at the forefront for songwriting producers.

But I've been power-using Cubase/Nuendo for years, and I have my methods. The longer I do this, the less change I need, let alone want. I'm in no rush to get a new version number. What I crave is rock-solid stability. The heck with new plugins and windows and especially samplers and VSTi's!
(That being said, I'll probably buyit, but keep my previous versions--as I've done since 5). ;)

What I do know, is that, since Cubase has become more and more buggy and fussy, I've reinstalled Logic and am making sure I'm staying current. Because, if Cubase starts costing me any more studio time due to instabilities caused by rushing out new version numbers before maturing their software, I will switch.

Still, fingers crossed! I do have hope--and have been loyal to Cubase since the "VST" days.
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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by Jalcide » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:32 am

Thanks for the reply, Enj, I'll be hoping your particular issues get worked out.

I used to be a Mac Logic user (PC Cubase before that, Bar & Pipes Amiga before that, Music X before that, two tape decks before that), then switched to Mac Cubase, then to PC Cubase then PC Studio One then PC Sonar X3 and finally back to Cubase 7 and 7.5.

And back in the day I had a small recording studio business, but gave up and became a software developer (which I love).

Now, an out of control music hobby is about the only thing keeping me sane. So, my sanity is slightly tied to Cubase, one might say. Yikes! :)

Cubase ran pretty stable on my 2006 tricked-out Mac Pro, so I think we really do have a platform choice with Cubase, which is awesome. Logic, not so much. Still have love for Logic, but that's a past life now.

I still have dreams and nightmares of the "Environment" in logic.

Cubase is in a very odd place right now. Ahead in so many ways, behind in so many ways, but is still "Cubase" through and through.

I, too, get a bit worried about the songwriting features, welcome as they are.

This is software that has to be a lot, to a lot of different folks.

Maybe they're getting the last of the songwriting features lined up, before the onslaught of Ableton-esque features, that the future market will be dictating for them, becomes a primary focus (of which I'm a member, oddly, even as old as I am -- O.G. electronica guy here).

They're clearly trying to hit all the angles, which can't be easy.

One thing almost all of us have in common as production value increases, plugin counts increase and power-hungry plugins increase, all while raw CPU floating point crunching remains relatively unchanged, is ... the freeze/unfreeze workflow. I hope they address that in v8.

My fear is that the light-duty songwriters will keep postponing these sorts of pro studio features.

I think the irony is that there should soon be a rich market of "songwriters" that are electronic-oriented and therefore will be pulled into the "Beatport production requirement" rabbit hole. That tidal force will be putting the "pro" features back in the spotlight even for Steiberg's "pro-sumer" market side of the spectrum.

But Steinberg gets that (Germany has been at the forefront of many electronic genres from day one). I can sense they are going for the whole cake, not just a piece of the pie. It's ambitious, breathtaking even, but also a bit stressful, at times.
Last edited by Jalcide on Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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4 DAW Network:

Main: Studio One V3 (Cubase Pro 9.0.1 on ice until future update solves some issues), Win 7 64-bit, i7-4790K @ 4.6GHz, ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87 mATX, 16GB, EVGA GTX 760, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 on a Vantect FireWire 400 PCIe (UGT-FW200), CMC Controllers (2 FDs, PD, QC, CH, AI, TP), 2 NI Kontrol F1 Controllers, Roland JD-Xi, rtpMIDI, Bome MIDI Translator Pro

Node 1 - VSTi Hosting via VEP: VEP 6 (& Sonar Platinum), Win 7, i7-4770K @ 4.0Ghz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, NI Kore 1 Controller, rtpMIDI

Node 2 - 16 Channel Stem Summing via VEP: VEP 6, Win 10, i5-4690K 3.9Ghz, Gigabyte Z97MX, 16GB, Intel HD 4600 Gfx, rtpMIDI

Node 3 - 2 Channel Mastering Chain via ADAT Optical: Reaper, Win 7, i5-4670K @ 4.1GHz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Nvidia GeForce 210, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, rtpMIDI

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Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by enjneer » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:39 am

Well said Jalcide! Dang, I thought I had been doing this a long time! Amiga!

I actually LOLed at your "Environment" dream/nightmare comment. Yeah. That was satanic!
Believe me, I don't want to leave the fold. I have to defend all the time why I chose Cubase over Pro Tools. And it's the innovation and production features (MIDI / songwriting tools) that allow me to work so quickly in Cubase. I've tried to do what I do in PT and Logic and it just ain't happening.

So, like I said, I'm still eager to see what they come up with, and I'll just install 8 and play with it in quarantine for a while.
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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by Jalcide » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:49 am

enjneer wrote:Well said Jalcide! Dang, I thought I had been doing this a long time! Amiga!

I actually LOLed at your "Environment" dream/nightmare comment. Yeah. That was satanic!
Believe me, I don't want to leave the fold. I have to defend all the time why I chose Cubase over Pro Tools. And it's the innovation and production features (MIDI / songwriting tools) that allow me to work so quickly in Cubase. I've tried to do what I do in PT and Logic and it just ain't happening.

So, like I said, I'm still eager to see what they come up with, and I'll just install 8 and play with it in quarantine for a while.
PT has plenty of pain points. Too many to list here. You shouldn't have to defend too hard.

As for new Cubase updates, I've built a pretty hardcore rackmounted DAW, with removable server-style SSD "trays" that allows me to backup the entire Cubase and OS environment, bit-for-bit (and fully bootable), so at least that dragon is slayed.

I'll backup the day v8 comes out and then upgrade without fear. If I need to revert, it's takes 5 seconds and my backup SSD gets popped in, then becomes the primary and vice versa. I don't even have to open the computer case.

With SSDs so cheap right now, it's a great way to go.

On OS X, Synchronize X Pro (among others) will do the bootable backup thing just like Paragon Drive Copy (among others) on Windows.

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

7.5.40 should be a no-brainer. I'm not expecting that to introduce issues, but it's possible.
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4 DAW Network:

Main: Studio One V3 (Cubase Pro 9.0.1 on ice until future update solves some issues), Win 7 64-bit, i7-4790K @ 4.6GHz, ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87 mATX, 16GB, EVGA GTX 760, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 on a Vantect FireWire 400 PCIe (UGT-FW200), CMC Controllers (2 FDs, PD, QC, CH, AI, TP), 2 NI Kontrol F1 Controllers, Roland JD-Xi, rtpMIDI, Bome MIDI Translator Pro

Node 1 - VSTi Hosting via VEP: VEP 6 (& Sonar Platinum), Win 7, i7-4770K @ 4.0Ghz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, NI Kore 1 Controller, rtpMIDI

Node 2 - 16 Channel Stem Summing via VEP: VEP 6, Win 10, i5-4690K 3.9Ghz, Gigabyte Z97MX, 16GB, Intel HD 4600 Gfx, rtpMIDI

Node 3 - 2 Channel Mastering Chain via ADAT Optical: Reaper, Win 7, i5-4670K @ 4.1GHz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Nvidia GeForce 210, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, rtpMIDI

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Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by enjneer » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:59 am

Cool. I do the same thing, except I'm on old-fashioned HDDs. I use Carbon Copy Cloner to have incremental backups of my Project drive (which is an external RAID) on a backup disk, and my OS X to another (and bootable) disk.
I keep another, older, smaller HDD that is my sandbox--I try any and all upgrades on that (i can verify that 7.5 actually works quite well on Yosemite).

So yeah, I can blow up a couple drives and I'll be down only as long as it takes to reboot. Changed my life when I learned about this bootable-image style of backing up!
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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by Jalcide » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:29 am

CCC is good! Cool, sounds like you're prepared. :)

Prediction: we're about 3 to four months early on v8.

v7.5.40 may come before the new year, but I won't be surprised if it's a week or so into 2015.

Get that cybermonday backup SSD/HD now.
http://soundcloud.com/jalcide

4 DAW Network:

Main: Studio One V3 (Cubase Pro 9.0.1 on ice until future update solves some issues), Win 7 64-bit, i7-4790K @ 4.6GHz, ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87 mATX, 16GB, EVGA GTX 760, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 on a Vantect FireWire 400 PCIe (UGT-FW200), CMC Controllers (2 FDs, PD, QC, CH, AI, TP), 2 NI Kontrol F1 Controllers, Roland JD-Xi, rtpMIDI, Bome MIDI Translator Pro

Node 1 - VSTi Hosting via VEP: VEP 6 (& Sonar Platinum), Win 7, i7-4770K @ 4.0Ghz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, NI Kore 1 Controller, rtpMIDI

Node 2 - 16 Channel Stem Summing via VEP: VEP 6, Win 10, i5-4690K 3.9Ghz, Gigabyte Z97MX, 16GB, Intel HD 4600 Gfx, rtpMIDI

Node 3 - 2 Channel Mastering Chain via ADAT Optical: Reaper, Win 7, i5-4670K @ 4.1GHz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Nvidia GeForce 210, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, rtpMIDI

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Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by enjneer » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:35 am

Jalcide wrote:CCC is good! Cool, sounds like you're prepared. :)
I worked at a studio during an ownership change. The new owners were yahoos who disconnected our backup system. Of course, immediately after that, the main PC's Project dive blew up. I had to look a client in the face and tell him all of his work was gone. About 15 songs we had been working on for weeks. It was so humiliating.

So I resolved that I would never be put in that position again. I made backup the number one priority when I started my little thing up here. It's great to hear from someone else who takes backup just as seriously!:D
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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by Jalcide » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:47 am

Wow.

OUCH.

Also, been there (not quite as badly).

My (non-client / non-professional) seriousness comes from a very complex real-time, multi-computer DAW setup, a lot of sound-design-oriented plugin chains, a lot of plugins, a lot of tracks, large projects (from a RAM perspective) and having lost a lot of time due to issues with things not playing nice with each other. Wack a mole.

Finally, have a stable setup and it's like gold to me.

So much so, that I'm about to purchase a backup motherboard of the exact same brand and model (so that Windows doesn't have to be reinstalled due to a different motherboard replacement, should this one fail).

Something you're immune to on OS X.

It's a dirty little secret / gottcha with the PC path.

Thanks, Microsoft!

Anyway, my desire for much needed features, sure to be in v8, is tempered with stability, continuity and just getting stuff done.

Right now, I'm amazed at how stable my system is. It can run for days without even a reboot (seriously, like a whole weekend).

If v8 breaks this in any way, nothing it offers could offset that.

Hence, the backup plan!
Last edited by Jalcide on Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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4 DAW Network:

Main: Studio One V3 (Cubase Pro 9.0.1 on ice until future update solves some issues), Win 7 64-bit, i7-4790K @ 4.6GHz, ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87 mATX, 16GB, EVGA GTX 760, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 on a Vantect FireWire 400 PCIe (UGT-FW200), CMC Controllers (2 FDs, PD, QC, CH, AI, TP), 2 NI Kontrol F1 Controllers, Roland JD-Xi, rtpMIDI, Bome MIDI Translator Pro

Node 1 - VSTi Hosting via VEP: VEP 6 (& Sonar Platinum), Win 7, i7-4770K @ 4.0Ghz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, NI Kore 1 Controller, rtpMIDI

Node 2 - 16 Channel Stem Summing via VEP: VEP 6, Win 10, i5-4690K 3.9Ghz, Gigabyte Z97MX, 16GB, Intel HD 4600 Gfx, rtpMIDI

Node 3 - 2 Channel Mastering Chain via ADAT Optical: Reaper, Win 7, i5-4670K @ 4.1GHz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Nvidia GeForce 210, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, rtpMIDI

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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by enjneer » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:50 am

Bloody brilliant with the mobo thing! You're my PC hero now.
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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by Jalcide » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:01 am

Thanks, the secret is two-fold...

First, if you're doing the PC thing, go with Windows 7, as it doesn't cry fowl if:

a) the hard-drive or SSD changes (Windows 8 does, but will still let you re-activate via an automated phone call to a 24/7 phone line -- not terrible, but still slightly frightening). Windows 7 avoids this complely for hard-drive swap-outs (which is also nice for testing image-backups without Windows nagging you -- it just works).

b) is much more forgiving toward motherboard of similar era replacements, but not a 100% guarantee. The only way to be certain is with a motherboard of the exact same model.

But, EVERYTHING else can change; video card, ram, etc.

It's really all about that motherboard.

But motherboard prices for PC are super cheap, so what's 100-200 bucks to save one month of plugin installs and fussing about.

Honestly, my last reinstall, for someone doing this on nights and weekends, took longer than a month to get back 100%.

With Mac, you're spared this, but then suffer the whole "outdated Mac" thing. My 2006 Mac Pro still has plenty of raw specs to run Yosemite, but Apple creates arbitrary cut-off points (understandably, for their support economics).
http://soundcloud.com/jalcide

4 DAW Network:

Main: Studio One V3 (Cubase Pro 9.0.1 on ice until future update solves some issues), Win 7 64-bit, i7-4790K @ 4.6GHz, ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87 mATX, 16GB, EVGA GTX 760, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 on a Vantect FireWire 400 PCIe (UGT-FW200), CMC Controllers (2 FDs, PD, QC, CH, AI, TP), 2 NI Kontrol F1 Controllers, Roland JD-Xi, rtpMIDI, Bome MIDI Translator Pro

Node 1 - VSTi Hosting via VEP: VEP 6 (& Sonar Platinum), Win 7, i7-4770K @ 4.0Ghz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, NI Kore 1 Controller, rtpMIDI

Node 2 - 16 Channel Stem Summing via VEP: VEP 6, Win 10, i5-4690K 3.9Ghz, Gigabyte Z97MX, 16GB, Intel HD 4600 Gfx, rtpMIDI

Node 3 - 2 Channel Mastering Chain via ADAT Optical: Reaper, Win 7, i5-4670K @ 4.1GHz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Nvidia GeForce 210, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, rtpMIDI

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Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by enjneer » Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:49 pm

Wow. I remember when Microsoft started doing that. I think it was XP. Shut down the audio I was at for a day while we tried to install some PCI card.

Yeah, the pros and cons of windows and Macs. Always the same. I always felt Cubase was a bit faster and stronger on PC, while the box itself was a better investment overall with Mac. In skilled hands, though, a PC can be made that will almost last forever.
The biggest pain with Mac now is that they're on this super-accelerated upgrade cycle, which makes Steinberg draw a line in the OS sand faster. So if I want the new features, I've got to do a month-long upgrade. And, as you say I'll eventually be cut out completely and have to but a new Mac < shudder>

Yeah. When I decided to commit to OS X 10.9, I did a clean install. And I'd say it was about a month till I felt everything was back to where it was before. Insane amount of reinstalling and downloading!
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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by Patanjali » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:55 am

Jalcide wrote:... so that Windows doesn't have to be reinstalled due to a different motherboard replacement, ...
I have found since Vista SP2, Windows has handled motherboard upgrades without any issues. I have popped in a new CPU/mb/RAM combination, connected up the drives, and waited while Windows did the driver update. I often find that better than doing the full mb installation software, as Windows only installs the minimum, and not all the bloat-ware, with its resource-sapping services and utilities.
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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by Patanjali » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:02 am

enjneer wrote:Wow. I remember when Microsoft started doing that. I think it was XP.
XP was a dog for that. It required too many user actions, and a lot of services-tweaking to make it DAW-ready.

Vista was behind the 'waiting for OEMs to do new drivers' 8-ball until SP2, by which time they were on board, and Win has generally been ahead of the curve since then. I generally prefer it to install drivers, because it is frugal with them (no bloat-ware).
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HW: YRG : uKEY2 : UR44.
SW: Dual boot Win10P : Cubase 8.0.30 Pro 64 : RX4Adv : Ozone6Adv : Goliath/SO/Pianos/Gypsy/SV : Sup.Drum 2

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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by lukasbrooklyn » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:16 am

Jalcide wrote:Wow.


So much so, that I'm about to purchase a backup motherboard of the exact same brand and model (so that Windows doesn't have to be reinstalled due to a different motherboard replacement, should this one fail).
btw. this is not needed-- i'm into my second motherboard (different chipset), different CPU, different GFX card, but the same windows 7 (that have been working flawlessly). there's a windows feature called sysprep that uninstalls all chipset-related drivers prior to switching up hardware. it's taken me about five minutes to move the system SSD into a new DAW, have it detect the new mobo and CPU and GPU and be up and running. (note: not raid-compatible.)

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/13 ... puter.html
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by Jalcide » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:28 pm

Yes, sometimes it "just works" when the chipsets are similar, and there is Sysprep and also good 3rd party utilities for when it doesn't work.

Part of my day job responsibility is as a Devops engineer (to support my software development), so I have gone that route many, many times. I have three 11U high racks of servers in my home office. :)

I'm just getting to the point in my life where 150 bucks for a spare MB, to spare all of that, the near-zero risk, the peace of mind, is worth it to me.

In all honesty, the spare will probably find an early life as a VM server that has no fussy migration issues itself, should it need replacement, and can be harvested from there, whenever.

A sort of spreading of statistical risk across two machines that have identical specs.

The other bonus is that, in an emergency, the hot-swapability is reversible. E.g., my VM server goes down and need to use my DAW as the server, in a pinch.

This exact thing happened to me on my Devbox about six months ago and I was able to get back up and running on my video editing computer that had the same MB (it was planned for just this kind of disaster). It was so slick how it worked.

Update: since this thread has already go so far off topic, toward backups and migrations (which got it relegated to the Steinberg Lounge), I'm renaming the post to help with search-ability.)
http://soundcloud.com/jalcide

4 DAW Network:

Main: Studio One V3 (Cubase Pro 9.0.1 on ice until future update solves some issues), Win 7 64-bit, i7-4790K @ 4.6GHz, ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87 mATX, 16GB, EVGA GTX 760, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 on a Vantect FireWire 400 PCIe (UGT-FW200), CMC Controllers (2 FDs, PD, QC, CH, AI, TP), 2 NI Kontrol F1 Controllers, Roland JD-Xi, rtpMIDI, Bome MIDI Translator Pro

Node 1 - VSTi Hosting via VEP: VEP 6 (& Sonar Platinum), Win 7, i7-4770K @ 4.0Ghz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, NI Kore 1 Controller, rtpMIDI

Node 2 - 16 Channel Stem Summing via VEP: VEP 6, Win 10, i5-4690K 3.9Ghz, Gigabyte Z97MX, 16GB, Intel HD 4600 Gfx, rtpMIDI

Node 3 - 2 Channel Mastering Chain via ADAT Optical: Reaper, Win 7, i5-4670K @ 4.1GHz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Nvidia GeForce 210, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, rtpMIDI

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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by Patanjali » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:02 pm

@Jalcide.

People tend to forget that the opportunity cost for spare parts is the time spent trying to rush the research and sourcing of the latest suitable replacement parts, just after a time-critical system failure.

The fact is that anyone whose livelihood depends upon their DAW being up almost 100% of the time would be nuts not to spend the paltry sum required to have hot-swap systems ready to go, and kept ready by mirroring the live system's data to them at least daily. And of course, test them regularly, or better still, periodically make them the live system.

I have worked for enterprises whose systems are responsible for $billions of transactions, yet they often only have sub-capacity or unreliable backups systems, if at all, for most of them. Too stingy for their own good.
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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by Jalcide » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:41 pm

Patanjali wrote:@Jalcide.

People tend to forget that the opportunity cost for spare parts is the time spent trying to rush the research and sourcing of the latest suitable replacement parts, just after a time-critical system failure.

The fact is that anyone whose livelihood depends upon their DAW being up almost 100% of the time would be nuts not to spend the paltry sum required to have hot-swap systems ready to go, and kept ready by mirroring the live system's data to them at least daily. And of course, test them regularly, or better still, periodically make them the live system.

I have worked for enterprises whose systems are responsible for $billions of transactions, yet they often only have sub-capacity or unreliable backups systems, if at all, for most of them. Too stingy for their own good.
Absolutely, well said.

I, too, have finally come to this conclusion. Building a computer just for DAW and that only was a huge step forward for me.

This last year I've really come to view my DAW as an "appliance" and have a new found respect for the hardcore pros out there you see using old versions of software. E.g., a lot of electronic guys are still on Cubase v5.

Version 7.5.x just may be my "v5," we'll see.

My plan is simple: make the image backups on an identical HD (Paragon Drive Copy likes same-sized partitions the best and I keep coming back to this software, it just works and is very quick).

Have fully redundant hardware. I even purchased an extra firewire card of the same make and model (I've had one fry on me before and the off-brand replacement was a nightmare).

Then, when a new version of Cubase comes out I can test the waters. If it works, great, I've advanced to the new version. If it fails, I'll stay on the version that works and wait it out.

After some time has passed, I'll test it again to see if plugin updates, or a Cubase point-release, solved the issue.

Eventually, the compatibility issues usually work themselves out.

But I'm prepared to stay on a working version, indefinitely.

This is a new approach for me. :lol:

I used to just upgrade and course correct.

I have an entire album's worth of work-in-progress songs due, in no small part, to my trigger-happy upgrading and updating ways of the past. That, and switching DAWs so much.

I'm staying with Cubase for good now. Shortcomings and all.

Well, if Studio One fixes their freeze feature so that it works with ghost-copied MIDI patterns without flattening them, I may change my mind. That is the only feature that would woo me away.
http://soundcloud.com/jalcide

4 DAW Network:

Main: Studio One V3 (Cubase Pro 9.0.1 on ice until future update solves some issues), Win 7 64-bit, i7-4790K @ 4.6GHz, ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87 mATX, 16GB, EVGA GTX 760, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 on a Vantect FireWire 400 PCIe (UGT-FW200), CMC Controllers (2 FDs, PD, QC, CH, AI, TP), 2 NI Kontrol F1 Controllers, Roland JD-Xi, rtpMIDI, Bome MIDI Translator Pro

Node 1 - VSTi Hosting via VEP: VEP 6 (& Sonar Platinum), Win 7, i7-4770K @ 4.0Ghz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, NI Kore 1 Controller, rtpMIDI

Node 2 - 16 Channel Stem Summing via VEP: VEP 6, Win 10, i5-4690K 3.9Ghz, Gigabyte Z97MX, 16GB, Intel HD 4600 Gfx, rtpMIDI

Node 3 - 2 Channel Mastering Chain via ADAT Optical: Reaper, Win 7, i5-4670K @ 4.1GHz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Nvidia GeForce 210, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, rtpMIDI

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Re: Antsy for Eight - System Backup Strategies and Prep

Post by curteye » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:05 pm

Aloha guys just to chime in.

Even tho' I have read that their 1st release will be a 3rd party stand-a-lone
product, I am looking forward to see if any of Dan Spreadbury and crew's
score notation work will be included in C8.

http://blog.steinberg.net/

Other than going back to Sebelius or Finalé. Cubase is now my
main ax in that arena and I would like to see some progress there; if just a lil.
{'-'}
Last edited by curteye on Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If yer gear ain't breakin down, you aint workin' much.

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Re: Antsy for Eight - Feelings, Warm Fuzzies and Fears

Post by Patanjali » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:06 pm

Jalcide wrote:Building a computer just for DAW and that only was a huge step forward for me.
I have too many monitors -- and one is 55" -- to run two computers. Don't want to have the hassle of remembering to switch them all.

Rather, instead of running a boot menu, I have separate drives for each boot (general and DAW), and they were two completely independent and isolated installations. All my drives are in a multi-drive 5.25" bay, so that to change boot, I just unlock the current boot drive door and Win boots up from the other one. Once booted, I can close the other drive door if I need to.

The two boots share the same data drive -- including Music, Documents, Videos, Pictures, Downloads and Favourites folders -- as well as sharing a project drive.
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HW: YRG : uKEY2 : UR44.
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Re: Antsy for Eight - System Backup Strategies and Prep

Post by -steve- » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:11 pm

curteye wrote:Aloha guys just to chime in.

Even tho' I have read that their 1st release will be a 3rd party stand-a-lone
product, I am looking forward to see if any of Dan Spreadbury and crew's
score notation work will be included in C8.

http://blog.steinberg.net/

Other than going back to Sebelius or Finalé. Cubase is now my
main ax in that arena and I would like to see some progress there; if just a lil.
{'-'}
It will not.
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Re: Antsy for Eight - System Backup Strategies and Prep

Post by curteye » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:17 pm

:(

C9? (he asks sheepishly and rehtorically )

{'-'}
If yer gear ain't breakin down, you aint workin' much.

iMac i7 2.8Gz 16GB-10.10x...../C5.5/6.5/7.5/CP8
MBP 3.0Gz......16GB-10.10x.../CP8

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On the side of a volcano in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

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Re: Antsy for Eight - System Backup Strategies and Prep

Post by Jalcide » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:34 am

Patanjali wrote:
Jalcide wrote:Building a computer just for DAW and that only was a huge step forward for me.
I have too many monitors -- and one is 55" -- to run two computers. Don't want to have the hassle of remembering to switch them all.

Rather, instead of running a boot menu, I have separate drives for each boot (general and DAW), and they were two completely independent and isolated installations. All my drives are in a multi-drive 5.25" bay, so that to change boot, I just unlock the current boot drive door and Win boots up from the other one. Once booted, I can close the other drive door if I need to.

The two boots share the same data drive -- including Music, Documents, Videos, Pictures, Downloads and Favourites folders -- as well as sharing a project drive.
Nice setup! Very similar to mine (a 5.25 bay, 6 slot SSD/HD removable tray).

I went the video switcher route on two 30" displays.

I then have three smaller 20" displays.
curteye wrote:Aloha guys just to chime in.

Even tho' I have read that their 1st release will be a 3rd party stand-a-lone
product, I am looking forward to see if any of Dan Spreadbury and crew's
score notation work will be included in C8.

http://blog.steinberg.net/

Other than going back to Sebelius or Finalé. Cubase is now my
main ax in that arena and I would like to see some progress there; if just a lil.
{'-'}
Interesting... great to see they're making improvements to scoring (even though I don't use it myself).

I used to work with someone that was on the Finale team; they're nearby to where I live.
http://soundcloud.com/jalcide

4 DAW Network:

Main: Studio One V3 (Cubase Pro 9.0.1 on ice until future update solves some issues), Win 7 64-bit, i7-4790K @ 4.6GHz, ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87 mATX, 16GB, EVGA GTX 760, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 on a Vantect FireWire 400 PCIe (UGT-FW200), CMC Controllers (2 FDs, PD, QC, CH, AI, TP), 2 NI Kontrol F1 Controllers, Roland JD-Xi, rtpMIDI, Bome MIDI Translator Pro

Node 1 - VSTi Hosting via VEP: VEP 6 (& Sonar Platinum), Win 7, i7-4770K @ 4.0Ghz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, NI Kore 1 Controller, rtpMIDI

Node 2 - 16 Channel Stem Summing via VEP: VEP 6, Win 10, i5-4690K 3.9Ghz, Gigabyte Z97MX, 16GB, Intel HD 4600 Gfx, rtpMIDI

Node 3 - 2 Channel Mastering Chain via ADAT Optical: Reaper, Win 7, i5-4670K @ 4.1GHz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Nvidia GeForce 210, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, rtpMIDI

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Re: Antsy for Eight - System Backup Strategies and Prep

Post by Patanjali » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:06 am

Jalcide wrote:(a 5.25 bay, 6 slot SSD/HD removable tray)
Is that the ICY DOCK ToughArmor MB996SP-6SB, which appears to be the same as the Sharkoon SATA QuickPort Intern 6-Bay?
If so, does it work well?

My current setup is actually a four-way 5.25" bay for the OSs and data SSDs, and a 3.5" dual bay for the sample SSDs. However, I would like to consolidate them, so I can have the 3.5" dual bay free to just slot in naked drives (no tray) on an ad-hoc basis.
Jalcide wrote:I went the video switcher route on two 30" displays.
I am considering going that route to mirror a display into the studio, but also switch the video camera routing to it or to one of my desk monitors. It is certainly less system taxing than duplicating monitors in Windows, as that requires extra pixels being driven direct from the video card, which only adds to its heat output.

Still have to keep my wits about me as getting too loose with the ad-hoc switching can result in the touch panel of a monitor (uses USB for touch, separate from the video) being active for a different monitor!

Sort of reminds me of the time my wife kept complaining that her mouse cursor was moving around by itself :?, but when I went in to her office, it didn't move. This went on a few times, until we realised that her system was responding to my wireless mouse, as well as hers! :roll: Technology spoonerisms.
Patanjali
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GTX 1050 : SSDx7 : UAD2Q : TCL 49C2US x2.
HW: YRG : uKEY2 : UR44.
SW: Dual boot Win10P : Cubase 8.0.30 Pro 64 : RX4Adv : Ozone6Adv : Goliath/SO/Pianos/Gypsy/SV : Sup.Drum 2

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Re: Antsy for Eight - System Backup Strategies and Prep

Post by Jalcide » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:29 am

Patanjali wrote:Is that the ICY DOCK ToughArmor MB996SP-6SB, which appears to be the same as the Sharkoon SATA QuickPort Intern 6-Bay?
If so, does it work well?
Yup, that's the one. The Icydock, exact model. It works great. The all metal design is nice. However, they do tend to "stick" a bit, sometimes, when both popping out and inserting. No biggie.

I bought a bunch for freely interchanging them between all my computers/servers. It works great.

It helps if you have a motherboard that supports 6 SATA connectors. If not, you have to buy an (inexpensive) add-in card (if you want to truly use all six slots).

It also has great RAID potential, effectively future-proofing against the M.2 standard that's faster than SATA III and current SATA III SSDs. I haven't needed to do this yet, but the option is there to turn cheap, off-the-shelf SSDs into dual (or even higher) RAIDs. You could have three dual RAIDs packed in there! Crazy.
Patanjali wrote:
My current setup is actually a four-way 5.25" bay for the OSs and data SSDs, and a 3.5" dual bay for the sample SSDs. However, I would like to consolidate them, so I can have the 3.5" dual bay free to just slot in naked drives (no tray) on an ad-hoc basis.
Jalcide wrote:I went the video switcher route on two 30" displays.
I am considering going that route to mirror a display into the studio, but also switch the video camera routing to it or to one of my desk monitors. It is certainly less system taxing than duplicating monitors in Windows, as that requires extra pixels being driven direct from the video card, which only adds to its heat output.

Still have to keep my wits about me as getting too loose with the ad-hoc switching can result in the touch panel of a monitor (uses USB for touch, separate from the video) being active for a different monitor!

Sort of reminds me of the time my wife kept complaining that her mouse cursor was moving around by itself :?, but when I went in to her office, it didn't move. This went on a few times, until we realised that her system was responding to my wireless mouse, as well as hers! :roll: Technology spoonerisms.
Lol. Good stuff.

I'm using Synergy to span one mouse and keyboard across all the computers, so the monitor switch isn't involved in the USB part.
http://soundcloud.com/jalcide

4 DAW Network:

Main: Studio One V3 (Cubase Pro 9.0.1 on ice until future update solves some issues), Win 7 64-bit, i7-4790K @ 4.6GHz, ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87 mATX, 16GB, EVGA GTX 760, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 on a Vantect FireWire 400 PCIe (UGT-FW200), CMC Controllers (2 FDs, PD, QC, CH, AI, TP), 2 NI Kontrol F1 Controllers, Roland JD-Xi, rtpMIDI, Bome MIDI Translator Pro

Node 1 - VSTi Hosting via VEP: VEP 6 (& Sonar Platinum), Win 7, i7-4770K @ 4.0Ghz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, NI Kore 1 Controller, rtpMIDI

Node 2 - 16 Channel Stem Summing via VEP: VEP 6, Win 10, i5-4690K 3.9Ghz, Gigabyte Z97MX, 16GB, Intel HD 4600 Gfx, rtpMIDI

Node 3 - 2 Channel Mastering Chain via ADAT Optical: Reaper, Win 7, i5-4670K @ 4.1GHz, Asrock Pro 3 ATX, 16GB, Nvidia GeForce 210, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, rtpMIDI

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