An open plea to Steinberg

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indiescore
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by indiescore » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:40 am

Drech wrote:
jose7822 wrote:+1

BTW, from this date forward, I will refrain from upgrading any longer until most issues are resolved. I'm voting with my wallet from now on.
+1

I've been a Cubase user for a long, long time but usually only lurk on the forums until now.

The update/upgrade model employed here coupled with consistently buggy releases and a failure to implement follow-up fixes has finally made it more painful to keep updating than it is to stay with 7.5 or move to another DAW.

No more Steinberg updates/upgrades/products for me until significant bug fixing takes place. And I mean truly substantive good will and commitment demonstrated by resolving years-old bugs that still persist, and the de-implementation of "features" that break native OS functionality, among other things (tabs that prevent window resizing; seriously, who tested that and though it was acceptable for users to be unable to resize application windows because the hover tabs at the edges prevent it? Absolutely asinine).

Since I've already paid several times over for but have yet to receive the full functionality of the software, having the gall to charge me yet again for these fixes is the surest way to lose me as a customer.

As for not having anything better, it's now less painful to deal with the inadequacies of other DAWs if they stay running while I work, don't use massive amounts of unnecessary RAM, have lag-free and pleasant GUIs, and won't stutter through playback on more than sufficient gear. Three of those are core functionality for any application and one is core functionality for any audio application, and for a seemingly significant number of users, Cubase now fails to meet all four.
Your correct and legit, one post since 2013, , no one can label you as a complainer. this is noticed, and anyone who has worked in a large corporation knows that seeing the marketing department have to make a statement means this is not going unnoticed on the inside, it's not good for business, were approaching 5,000 views. I believe the course will correct.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by beerbong » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:34 am

The original post is a clear troll as the poster is totally contradicting himself, a rant.
On one hand he want's lots of new features and the other he saying he doesn't want more useless crap..
I didn't really see any one good suggestion i the post that's even relevant tbh.

However I will point out I am somewhat confused at the roll out of the 8.0 and then 8.5 versions and the confusing GUI direction it seems to have taken. I have seen a couple of really good mockups of a GOOD mixer 'look' here on these forums a while back. I would strongly suggest a better GUI design all around which is able to display more information more densely with minimal scrolling required in many GUI aspects including MIXER, Track Channel, Arranger View. The scaleability of the Mixer as well as the Arranger channels are still quite bad, sadly. The text and fonts seems marginally better than some of the worst ones. Racks all suffer with GUI that could look and feel way better. I am still struggling to get used to the new Windows.

At this point, I feel a bit concerned that this is 8.5, already. So next 9.0 more money.. I am wondering if Steiny just needs a different strategy or not because graphically Cubase has debatedly gotten worse each version and it seems the whole concept of pushing a major version cycle.

Maybe they should focus their attention on other issues like a Store front for free and commercial plugin developers and try to maintain the VST 2.4 crowd-sourch community? After all I think Cubase+Nuendo owe a lot to all the free plugins out there. Ideally this could make money for SB by charging a small purchase to price in order to support quality legacy 3rd party stuff?

Anyhow there is so much good things in the new version that I won't be getting to all of them any time soon..:)

So anyways I think the real problem right now is 8.5 has some major GUI issues and still can't get a decent looking Mixer, but it sounds good to me.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by teknatronik » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:49 am

I am not happy about this paid update.

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by greggybud » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:18 am

beerbong wrote:The original post is a clear troll as the poster is totally contradicting himself, a rant.
On one hand he want's lots of new features and the other he saying he doesn't want more useless crap..
Speaking for myself, there are features I wish for, but then there are "features" that make my head shake in unbelief.

There are core function/workflow features long overdue such as mix undo. I suggest focus on DAW core functions, workflow and bugs and NOT features because most often the Steinberg released "features" I see are either replicated by 3rd parties, or just things that make me think why did they do that when they could have added a core function feature such as mix undo?

This time in C8.5 I think they did a little of both. Drum editing enhancements is way over due. Midi note/velocity insert and output routings when adding tracks and the new import tracks are very welcome.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by karlito » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:54 am

Guys, we're trying to untangle a fairly complicated issue here with this thread so please, stay on topic.
Censored signature.

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by ckon » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:57 am

Everyone please go back to your studio, in my case, my new Moog voyager.....RME is waiting. Good night. ! Lol
This is more like it, Voyager, great instrument, have fun with it.
Guys, we're trying to untangle a fairly complicated issue here with this thread so please, stay on topic.
agreed.

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by 4n4gn0r1515 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:23 am

+1

I registered extra to post in this thread. I'm using Cubase since 2002. I think it is a great DAW. I updated to 8.5, because of the new workflow features, that are great for what i do. I do hope, that Steinberg will fix the bugs, especially with VEP5. As much as i love Cubase, i have to admit, that Reaper is much more stable. When we're on tour with our band, we never use Cubase, simply because we know it could crash. IMO, the most features that were presented in the 8.5 should have had lesser priority than stability of the existing.

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by noiseboyuk » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:28 am

karlito wrote:Guys, we're trying to untangle a fairly complicated issue here with this thread so please, stay on topic.
Absolutely - 8 great pages so far, not coming some of the recent silliness.

One additional easy-win suggestion. Guillermo helpfully responded on another forum to some of the specific issues that have come up a lot, saying where they are due to be addressed on the maintenance schedule, even up to the third maintenance release from now. I got to thinking that making this schedule public is a really easy win. Each time there's an update and Bug X isn't fixed, there are howls of anguish, and it increases the feeling that users are ignored. If we all saw that it was at least due to be fixed in 8.5.2 or what have you, it would reduce a lot of the noise and I'll-feeling IMO. Of course everything would be subject to change and that would be understood.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Jeff Price » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:02 am

jose7822 wrote:+1

I was a bit disappointed about the lack of response from Steinberg as I was reading this thread. But now I see that they have replied. However, they need to follow up with a more detailed explanation or else that reply will be meaningless. As much as I appreciate the new features in Cubase 8.5, especially those focused on workflow, I do hope that Steinberg actually does something about the bugs. They should be priority #1 over ANYTHING else.

BTW, from this date forward, I will refrain from upgrading any longer until most issues are resolved. I'm voting with my wallet from now on.

Totally agree with you there good sir.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Guillermo » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:22 am

Hello all,

As some of you have mentioned
Steinberg should follow up with a more detailed explanation
and we are going to do that.

Since our last post we have had a meeting and created a task force to tackle the above mentioned issues, in this case it will be overseen by our marketing director. We are currently working on a plan, in an unprecedented action, as soon as we have it ready we are going to share it with you and list the steps that are about to follow. At some point we will also request your feedback, we consider this a step forward to improve our communication with our followers, customers and the community.

Once more we thank you all for choosing Steinberg!

Best regards,
GN
Guillermo Navarrete, Online Product Specialist
Hamburg, Germany
Check out Steinberg on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, SoundCloud and Google+!

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by sonicstate » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:36 am

Guillermo, if you simply make your release/bug-fix plans available for users to see, and then make endeavour to follow your plans, you will reduce amount of complaining to practically zero. All complainst are simply because users have no idea what is going on, what can they expect, what will be fixed and when, if a all...
Just make a public TO-DO list, ETA for each item, and keep it sticky here on forum, updated daily or at least weekly. It will be very good both for you and for your customers.
Guillermo wrote:Hello all,

As some of you have mentioned
Steinberg should follow up with a more detailed explanation
and we are going to do that.

Since our last post we have had a meeting and created a task force to tackle the above mentioned issues, in this case it will be overseen by our marketing director. We are currently working on a plan, in an unprecedented action, as soon as we have it ready we are going to share it with you and list the steps that are about to follow. At some point we will also request your feedback, we consider this a step forward to improve our communication with our followers, customers and the community.

Once more we thank you all for choosing Steinberg!

Best regards,
GN
Last edited by sonicstate on Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by matjones » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:38 am

Thankyou Guillermo!

Do you not think it's time for you guys to start using a public beta system?
There is a thread in the lounge http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 98&t=89269 where it has been suggested, as the current beta program is clearly NOT up to scratch :(
Even microsoft started doing this with win7 which lead to what most people feel was by far the best incarnation of windows EVER! (in comic book guy's voice ;) )
Plenty of other companies are doing just that these days.... and lets not beat around the bush WE ARE being used as paying beta testers at the moment and no amount of corporate double speak is going to convince people otherwise unfortunately. I say this with respect to yourself, Steinberg and ALL of us frustrated customers.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Mike001 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:15 pm

+100
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Winter Rat » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:23 pm

matjones wrote:Thankyou Guillermo!

Do you not think it's time for you guys to start using a public beta system?
There is a thread in the lounge http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 98&t=89269 where it has been suggested, as the current beta program is clearly NOT up to scratch :(
Even microsoft started doing this with win7 which lead to what most people feel was by far the best incarnation of windows EVER! (in comic book guy's voice ;) )
Plenty of other companies are doing just that these days.... and lets not beat around the bush WE ARE being used as paying beta testers at the moment and no amount of corporate double speak is going to convince people otherwise unfortunately. I say this with respect to yourself, Steinberg and ALL of us frustrated customers.
Not a bad idea since we are in the software domain and it means that you can please everybody with a single product, it's a sort of luxury that car vendors can only dream of (Preferences). Hire more programmers to fix the bugs quicker (yes, make some investments), implement the best workflow enhancements (we're asking for), try public beta and build the best DAW. And I promise I'll advertise Cubase every week in all social nets for free :D .
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by mroekalea » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:49 pm

Key is to be "open" towards the users/customers, in the past there where moments when Steinberg did this and the appreciation was great!

The Blog comment with ETA is the best I've seen so far. Also giving insight in the alpha & beta testing would be appreciated.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Steve Helstrip » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:15 pm

Guillermo wrote:Hello all,

As some of you have mentioned
Steinberg should follow up with a more detailed explanation
and we are going to do that.

Since our last post we have had a meeting and created a task force to tackle the above mentioned issues, in this case it will be overseen by our marketing director. We are currently working on a plan, in an unprecedented action, as soon as we have it ready we are going to share it with you and list the steps that are about to follow. At some point we will also request your feedback, we consider this a step forward to improve our communication with our followers, customers and the community.

Once more we thank you all for choosing Steinberg!

Best regards,
GN
As a 20+ year long customer, this is encouraging to read. But I'll believe it when I see it. Haven't we be here before? LOL.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by ckon » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:39 pm

+1

waiting patiently for positive results
ckon:

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by Niles » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:05 pm

[url=https://youtu.be/yzLT6_TQmq8?t=60]Shirley Bassey[/url] once wrote:The word is about, there's something evolving,
whatever may come, the world keeps revolving
They say the next big thing is here,
that the revolution's near,
but to me it seems quite clear
that it's all just a little bit of history repeating

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by sempondr » Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:29 pm

+1
I rememeber similar promises were made after SX launch, more than 10 years ago (how time flies...).
Hope this time it will be differnt.

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by fretthefret » Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:45 pm

I would sooner see Steinberg settle on supporting only the most recent technology (Windows 8.1 & 10 and the latest Mac OS) and publish that as a "System Requirement" for upgrade rather than continuing to try to support full functionality on OSes from 2009 (even if there are a few vociferous holdouts).
Cure the bugs on the most recent platforms with the most recent version of Cubase and let's all move forward.
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by noiseboyuk » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:54 pm

Huge thanks Guillermo, I'm guessing (and hoping) that a great many of us are really encouraged by your post. I've no doubt it will be impossible to please us all, but if you can take a large number of us with you on this next step it will be a wonderful thing. Thanks for listening,
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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by giftmusic » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:24 pm

+1 I absolutely agree it seems like Steinberg is more focused on a new user which will pay more money for the software up front as opposed to focusing on the loyal customers they've had for years. Something is primitive is the modulation Lane is a good example of them overlooking simple things. I've been saying for years we need region-based automation that would make our workflow way faster.

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by jneebz » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:25 pm

+1000. And thank you Guillermo for posting an update, looking forward to "the plan."

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Re: An open plea to Steinberg

Post by islandmusicpro » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:41 pm

Guys,
Very encouraging all of this! Looking forward to the new Steinberg... 8-)
And while we're at it: Let's just drop the 32bit version of Cubase, okay?

Cheers,
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