Video "add-on" content...

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jaslan
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Video "add-on" content...

Post by jaslan » Fri May 13, 2016 2:17 am

If SB made a paid "add on" for video that made it possible to edit video, including adding some basic effects such as text, crossfade, picture in picture, split screen, swipe, fadeout, etc., AND the ability to EXPORT to popular formats, would you buy it? I would definitely pay $50 for it. Maybe more depending on the feature set.
They are already selling "expansions" beyond musical content (i.e. features) with the VST Connect and Cloud features.
Just curious how many people would dabble in the video stuff if you could make a decent video all within Cubase. :D
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by Strophoid » Fri May 13, 2016 12:37 pm

I would probably buy it, yeah.
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by NorthWood MediaWorks » Fri May 13, 2016 9:55 pm

I have Sony Vegas and Final Cut Pro, so not much interest here, but for quick edits, it might be cool. Reaper has good video support, got that too.

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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by MattiasNYC » Fri May 13, 2016 11:15 pm

It's an absolutely terrible idea in practice. In an ideal world, yes, please give me a software that does anything I can ever think of.

But practically speaking: Steinberg already has users complain about important features not working, not to mention numerous annoying design choices that hamper workflows. Just what do you think happens to the complexity of the code and the requirements to support the software if you add "add-on" video editing/fx components!?

No offense, but it's a terrible idea.

For anyone who wants to edit video there's Blackmagic Design's Davinci Resolve for FREE, which includes industry-leading color correction.
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by matjones » Sat May 14, 2016 10:26 am

Dayum Lydiot you beat me to it... pretty much verbatim! lol

ta for the link to Davinci Resolve though.... never heard of it and occasionally have to work on video.... will check that out later.... cheers geezer!
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by MattiasNYC » Sat May 14, 2016 5:07 pm

Ur welcome, dude :-)

Yeah, supposedly Davinci Resolve got a very big update at 12.5 compared to 12.0 (or whatever it was) and so it's more viable as an editor now for professionals. For color correction it's been industry standard for years, with control surfaces costing up to about $30,000 or so. The real deal. It's actually insane that there's a free version. Most of the limitations in the free version relates to either ultra-high-def or stereoscopic (3D) imagery, and possibly some denoising; in other words pretty specific high-end features.

Other than that Adobe Premiere is probably worth the money for anyone needing to edit every now and then.

NOTE: I just remembered that you may have to dedicate a separate gpu for image processing. So this would mean there'd be a need for two graphic cards in a system where there's no (cpu-)integrated graphics...
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by matjones » Sat May 14, 2016 5:23 pm

I did see something about additional GPUs but haven't even had time to install it today... It looks like some SERIOUS bit of kit from what i was reading earlier though.... i have a mate who makes his living with video using Premiere and he'd not heard of it.... he was pretty excited when i linked him up to it though.... Even if i can't get it running on my system i've lost nothing other than a few mins downloading.... I have an Ivy bridge processor so that might be of help? I'll do some research and testing when i have a bit more time...
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by MattiasNYC » Sat May 14, 2016 6:39 pm

I think it may need one GPU for the GUI and another for processing...
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by matjones » Sat May 14, 2016 9:11 pm

Yeah i have a separate GPU as well as onboard so thought i might give it a go.... might work... might not.... worth a punt though and nothing to loose....
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by jaslan » Sun May 15, 2016 2:10 am

While i do understand the concerns, i would like to say that ANY idea is a bad idea if we assume it will be implemented poorly or improperly. I dont totally disagree with the "its a bad idea" mindset though. I have even said myself in response to someones interest in having Cubase burn a selection of songs to a CD that we dont want to have Cubase do too much beyond what it is really meant to do. And there is a part of me that agrees that adding video editing, etc., violates this principle. But, after tinkering with the video track a little, i couldnt help but wish i could do a little more with it.
Anyway, i do appreciate the information about the other video making applications.
I will check into those. I made a very simple video last week with Windows Movie Maker.
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by TheMaestro » Mon May 16, 2016 4:14 pm

This is an excellent idea !

Those who advise to use an editing software instead, are not getting the point at all.

What the OP is suggesting, and the main purpose in my opinion, would be to export a video with the sound or the music, with quick addition of basic texts or effects. Imagine working with a director and continuously sending to him excerpts of his movie including annotations about the details of the music you've done for it. Or making a quick video demo for your song with basic effects, titles etc etc ...

It's not a question of making the final video or movie !
(even if it could be feasible)

So, very useful, I'd definitely buy it.
I will already be very happy if we can only export untouched video + audio.

Besides, generally speaking, in my view, any new feature is a good idea ! ;)
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by MattiasNYC » Mon May 16, 2016 4:33 pm

TheMaestro wrote:This is an excellent idea !

Those who advise to use an editing software instead, are not getting the point at all.
Yeah buddy, we're getting the point.
TheMaestro wrote:What the OP is suggesting, and the main purpose in my opinion, would be to export a video with the sound or the music, with quick addition of basic texts or effects. Imagine working with a director and continuously sending to him excerpts of his movie including annotations about the details of the music you've done for it. Or making a quick video demo for your song with basic effects, titles etc etc ...

It's not a question of making the final video or movie !
(even if it could be feasible)
It doesn't matter if it's the final video. If you add the functionality to overlay text/effects and then render then it's just a workflow issue whether or not that's the final. Besides, once you do, you can bet your butt that some will ask for more video-specific features. Once that door is unlocked some will want it wider and wider.
TheMaestro wrote:Besides, generally speaking, in my view, any new feature is a good idea ! ;)
Well, you probably read my objection already, but I'll rephrase it for better context:

I bought Nuendo 7 almost 11 months ago. 11 months. I did it because a "new feature" wasn't just a good idea, but something I use all the time when I'm on PT (which is 80% of the time these days). Those VCAs STILL aren't working. We're coming up on a full year of me having paid for something that still doesn't work.

I agree with you: "any new feature is a good idea" assuming it all works. It doesn't though, that's the point I'm making.
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by TheMaestro » Mon May 16, 2016 5:46 pm

Lydiot wrote:Yeah buddy, we're getting the point.
Sorry my dear, there is no need to use professional video editing software such as Avid, Premiere or BalckMagic or else, for the very basic video editing we're talking about. That's what made me say you're not getting the point !
There's a world of difference between a final video and a quick preview !

Lydiot wrote:once you do, you can bet your butt that some will ask for more video-specific features
Sure, I'll be the first in line. ;)
Lydiot wrote: assuming it all works
That's where our points of view really differ.
You're basically pessimistic. You assume that new features mean new bugs. You're probably right.
But hey... if Steinberg had always dedicated their time only fixing bugs instead of moving forward, we would still be at Cubase 3 !
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by MattiasNYC » Mon May 16, 2016 6:30 pm

TheMaestro wrote:
Lydiot wrote:Yeah buddy, we're getting the point.
Sorry my dear, there is no need to use professional video editing software such as Avid, Premiere or BalckMagic or else, for the very basic video editing we're talking about.
I didn't say there was such a need either, did I...!
TheMaestro wrote:
Lydiot wrote: assuming it all works
That's where our points of view really differ.
You're basically pessimistic. You assume that new features mean new bugs. You're probably right.
So really I'm a realist, and you are the same it seems.
TheMaestro wrote:
Lydiot wrote:But hey... if Steinberg had always dedicated their time only fixing bugs instead of moving forward, we would still be at Cubase 3 !
That's an illogical conclusion.
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by TheMaestro » Mon May 16, 2016 10:45 pm

Lydiot wrote:
TheMaestro wrote:there is no need to use professional video editing software ...
I didn't say there was such a need either, did I...!
It seemed to me :
Lydiot wrote:For anyone who wants to edit video there's Blackmagic Design's Davinci Resolve for FREE, which includes industry-leading color correction.
And I don't think those who would like basic video editing and export in Cubase would necessarily need color correction ! But if there is, all the better !

TheMaestro wrote:You assume that new features mean new bugs. You're probably right.
Lydiot wrote:So really I'm a realist, and you are the same it seems.
You're saying news features are a "terrible idea" because it brings new bugs.
I say it's probably true, but it's worth it, and bugs are made to be fixed ! :D

Lydiot wrote:
TheMaestro wrote:But hey... if Steinberg had always dedicated their time only fixing bugs instead of moving forward, we would still be at Cubase 3 !
That's an illogical conclusion.
Just a little bit exaggerated to support my argument.
On the other hand, saying that adding new features is a bad idea because of bugs, doesn't sound more logical to me. ;)

Maybe this feature is a bad idea for you, because you probably don't really need video in Cubase/Nuendo. I don't know.
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by matjones » Mon May 16, 2016 10:51 pm

With respect TheMaestro.... there are more than enough bugs in cubendo currently which need addressing.... we really don't need any more to add to the already extensive list, some of which have been ongoing for years now.....
I think many, if not most of us would prefer uncle steiny got on top of those first and increased its efficiency system wise before adding even more bugs.... imho of course ;)
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by HowlingUlf » Mon May 16, 2016 10:59 pm

Get Nuendo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7waPyZeUHM

If that's too much for your needs there are a million Video Editors for free and upwards.

Leave Cubase Alone! :cry:

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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by MattiasNYC » Mon May 16, 2016 11:20 pm

TheMaestro wrote:And I don't think those who would like basic video editing and export in Cubase would necessarily need color correction ! But if there is, all the better !
I only pointed out DaVinci Resolve as an alternative because it is a complete solution that is free. I have a hard time imagining anything a user that predominantly does audio would want that it doesn't have. It exists already. And it's free. That doesn't mean there aren't a gazillion other apps out there that does a lot less than that but still are adequate.

The point had nothing at all to do with the capacity of the app I suggested beyond it being sufficient for the functionality that was requested in this thread.
TheMaestro wrote: it's worth it, and bugs are made to be fixed ! :D
To you. Not to me. Perhaps you don't make a living using the software, but I do. That's why I don't want to risk more and "dangerous" bugs. Steinberg is a company focused on audio, and not even that is working as it should, and you want to add more complex video functionality to the equation?

We simply disagree on that.

TheMaestro wrote:
Lydiot wrote:
TheMaestro wrote:But hey... if Steinberg had always dedicated their time only fixing bugs instead of moving forward, we would still be at Cubase 3 !
That's an illogical conclusion.
Just a little bit exaggerated to support my argument.
On the other hand, saying that adding new features is a bad idea because of bugs, doesn't sound more logical to me. ;)
And that's also not what I said I believe.

Different features have different potential implications for the software. The audio signal path is of course extremely important. With the VCA failure SB showed that when implementing a new feature that the competition has had for over a decade, and that is industry standard for post-production, it'll take close to a year (if not more since it's still not working) to get it to work. Ok? That's a core element of the software, the signal path. Now, video, for Nuendo which is for post-production, is also a core piece of the code. It's absolutely 100% essential it works flawlessly. Just like people like me can't have an audio engine that for example renders too loud levels on export which would fail Quality Control when we deliver for broadcast we also can't have video that doesn't work 100%. It can't drop frames. It can't drift. It can't crop. It can't truncate etc. It needs to be entirely solid.

So, messing with that level of functionality should in my opinion happen rarely. They already have problems enough as it is. If there's a new feature where you can quantize midi differently for example then go ahead and implement it. I think it has far less bad potentially negative effects.
TheMaestro wrote:Maybe this feature is a bad idea for you, because you probably don't really need video in Cubase/Nuendo. I don't know.
I get paid for mixing post which includes video. So far the times I've been asked to change something in video it's been by low-pay customers who didn't know any better. That's a segment of the market that's pretty hard to navigate profitably. But should I care to do so there's Resolve. So while it would be convenient to have basic video editing and rendering with added layers/effects I'd rather do that in a separate app, both being 100% solid.
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by TheMaestro » Tue May 17, 2016 12:01 pm

I understand your point and it's valid.
You can't afford to deal with newly introduced bugs with the addition of a new feature.
But again I find you pessimistic. Any new feature won't "necessarily" impact audio part of the software, and won't necessarily take 1 or 2 years to function properly.

It's not a about delivering videos to your clients for broadcast etc...
Once again we're talking about fast and really basic and "light" video editing for "internal use".
And it's absolutely not a question of turning Cubase or Nuendo into a video editing program.

I already have a professional video editing program and all the tools I need for proper video output.
Exporting a quick video from the audio program you're working on is a totally different approach and extremely time saver.

Cubase/Nuendo are vast, and you and me don't use the program the same way, therefor we don't have the same priorities and this explains our divergence. You mainly use audio and mixing part and I mainly use midi, score editor, video, and of course audio but probably not to the same degree as you.
As a result Steinberg always has to find compromises to satisfy all the users.

As you well know, anyway, Steinberg is always forced to implement major new features in order to entice people to purchase new versions. The users would be less tempted to pay for Cubase 9, 10, 11 ... if they only consist of bug fixing updates and some minor new additions.
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by MattiasNYC » Tue May 17, 2016 4:50 pm

TheMaestro wrote:I understand your point and it's valid.
You can't afford to deal with newly introduced bugs with the addition of a new feature.
Depending on how severe the bug is relative to how useful the new feature is. I can use Nuendo 7 just fine as long as I avoid VCAs. The current implementation is both awful and dangerous. So I can't touch it. But apart from that the software works. But there have been versions where things have been "slightly off" without people noticing, and that's not a good thing.
TheMaestro wrote:But again I find you pessimistic. Any new feature won't "necessarily" impact audio part of the software, and won't necessarily take 1 or 2 years to function properly.
Why are you stating the above? I didn't say it necessarily would, did I? I said that given SB's track record it's better to not mess with new and tricky stuff that touches core functionality unless it's needed. It's not pessimism, it's realism. I could call you a "dreamer", but that doesn't make you wrong, just like calling me a pessimist doesn't make me wrong.
TheMaestro wrote:It's not a about delivering videos to your clients for broadcast etc...
I never said it was. You seem to keep reading a bunch of stuff into what I write that isn't there.
TheMaestro wrote:Once again we're talking about fast and really basic and "light" video editing for "internal use".
And it's absolutely not a question of turning Cubase or Nuendo into a video editing program.
You have to consider what it takes - technically - to add titling and effects to the video and then render it. Is there any difference - technically - between "basic" effects and non-basic effects? As far as I understand it NLEs have plugins just like DAWs do. So you have the basic underlying video engine which allows for applying a plugin-effect to the video. Just like VST the host probably doesn't care at all what the plugin does as long as it conforms to the plugin specification. So in other words; as soon as you implement ANY video plugin capability it doesn't matter if that plugin effect is "basic" or not, and so the issue I'm pointing out has nothing to do with "light" or "internal use" or "basic". It has to do with the fact that now we're screwing around with the video track in realtime, in an app made for audio production.
TheMaestro wrote:Cubase/Nuendo are vast, and you and me don't use the program the same way, therefor we don't have the same priorities and this explains our divergence. You mainly use audio and mixing part and I mainly use midi, score editor, video, and of course audio but probably not to the same degree as you.
As a result Steinberg always has to find compromises to satisfy all the users.
But as I tried to point out, BOTH of us use BOTH video and audio, and if any part of the basic audio/video functionality is compromised we BOTH suffer IF we also have to deliver content to spec. I'm not resisting this idea because I don't think I'd benefit, I think it would be absolutely fantastic to have it added assuming it'd work and wouldn't break other stuff. But I think it's likely it'd break other stuff. And since I can't get (for example) Resolve to do what Nuendo can do, but I can get Resolve for free, the rational approach is to be very conservative with new additions. In my opinion.
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by TheMaestro » Wed May 18, 2016 11:22 am

TheMaestro wrote:It's not a about delivering videos to your clients for broadcast ...
Lydiot wrote:I never said it was. You seem to keep reading a bunch of stuff into what I write that isn't there.
:? ?
Lydiot wrote:So far the times I've been asked to change something in video it's been by low-pay customers
What part of this sentence did I misunderstood again ?
You're talking about modifying video for your customers, it seemed clear to me.

I'm saying that it wouldn't be the purpose of an hypothetical video export from Cubase/Nuendo at all. As I said, in my mind, it would only be for preview and internal use with a director for example...
Lydiot wrote:You have to consider what it takes - technically - to add titling and effects to the video and then render it. Is there any difference - technically - between "basic" effects and non-basic effects? As far as I understand it NLEs have plugins just like DAWs do.
You're going too far.
No need for effects, not even transitions. No need for plugins.
I'm thinking of a really BASIC ! video export with editing from two tracks on the timeline with some text overlay, to put annotations. That's all ! No comparison with NLEs.

But again if they can implement something a little more sophisticated that doesn't break other part of the software as you said, why not ?

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed May 18, 2016 5:17 pm

TheMaestro wrote:
TheMaestro wrote:It's not a about delivering videos to your clients for broadcast ...
Lydiot wrote:I never said it was. You seem to keep reading a bunch of stuff into what I write that isn't there.
:? ?
Lydiot wrote:So far the times I've been asked to change something in video it's been by low-pay customers
What part of this sentence did I misunderstood again ?
You're talking about modifying video for your customers, it seemed clear to me.
I'm merely reflecting on the very few times I've been asked to provide modified video in any sense at all. The point wasn't that it was for broadcast, the point was what kind of customer it was. Please try to interpret what I write in context. Don't just lift one sentence out of a paragraph.
TheMaestro wrote:I'm saying that it wouldn't be the purpose of an hypothetical video export from Cubase/Nuendo at all. As I said, in my mind, it would only be for preview and internal use with a director for example...
Yeah, I know that's what you said. And I'm saying I've never ever been asked for that, because in professional post-workflows it's really never been an issue with the exception of aforementioned segment, which isn't that profitable to begin with.
TheMaestro wrote:
Lydiot wrote:You have to consider what it takes - technically - to add titling and effects to the video and then render it. Is there any difference - technically - between "basic" effects and non-basic effects? As far as I understand it NLEs have plugins just like DAWs do.
You're going too far.
No need for effects,
not even transitions.
Ok, now you've changed your mind. You wrote:
TheMaestro wrote:What the OP is suggesting, and the main purpose in my opinion, would be to export a video with the sound or the music, with quick addition of basic texts or effects. Imagine working with a director and continuously sending to him excerpts of his movie including annotations about the details of the music you've done for it. Or making a quick video demo for your song with basic effects, titles etc etc ...

TheMaestro wrote:No need for plugins.
I'm thinking of a really BASIC ! video export with editing from two tracks on the timeline with some text overlay, to put annotations. That's all ! No comparison with NLEs.
Ok, so how is that done, technically? If you're talking about simple text overlay then that may actually be possible with the next version. Nuendo's ADR tool already allows for text to be placed on top of the video image and SB is working on a new video engine where exporting video is planned. So, maybe, they will pull off the ability to merge the two.

But, my point was; just how is it accomplished technically?
TheMaestro wrote:But again if they can implement something a little more sophisticated that doesn't break other part of the software as you said, why not ?
That's what I said. If it doesn't that's fine. But we won't know until after they've tried. And they've tried other things and broken parts of the software, so I'm skeptic as to their ability to get it done.
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TEEF
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by TEEF » Sat May 21, 2016 3:11 pm

Davinci is incredible. I use it all the time. Beware though, you need a boat load of ram and a high power cuda core based video card to run it smoothly.

Cubase and Nuendo do not need video editing. You could however sync cubase and a video editor via time code which is what I used to do with Vegas but I no longer use Vegas or need to work that way anymore. Davinci and Premier is you current Video editing suit.


Lydiot wrote:
For anyone who wants to edit video there's Blackmagic Design's Davinci Resolve for FREE, which includes industry-leading color correction.
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by jaslan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:20 pm

I thought I would revive this old thread to say that I think I have changed my opinion on this idea of video "add on" capabilities in Cubase. After using Magix Movie Edit Pro for over a year now which cost about $70 and seeing HitFilm Express for free, I don't think it would even be feasible for SB to make a add on that could do what even the free editors can do and offer it at a competitive price. Plus the video editors have their own plug-in architecture and would just get too messy. I think it is best left to an independent program for video. Possibly an exception for the most basic, single layer video and text title features from Cubase but then again, you can do so much more than that with current free video editors.
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Re: Video "add-on" content...

Post by TEEF » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:53 pm

matjones wrote:
Sat May 14, 2016 5:23 pm
I did see something about additional GPUs but haven't even had time to install it today... It looks like some SERIOUS bit of kit from what i was reading earlier though.... i have a mate who makes his living with video using Premiere and he'd not heard of it.... he was pretty excited when i linked him up to it though.... Even if i can't get it running on my system i've lost nothing other than a few mins downloading.... I have an Ivy bridge processor so that might be of help? I'll do some research and testing when i have a bit more time...
DaVinci uses Cuda cores if I remember correctly.. In order to use DaVinci you're probably going to need a heavyweight video card. It all depends on how deep you get into the video editing and coloring. DaVinci is a great piece of software. I switched from premiere to DaVinci Studio last year because I got tired of paying adobe's monthly fees. It's odd that your mate hasn't heard of DaVinci Resolve if he does pro video work because it is very well known in the industry. The free version of resolve can get you a long way if your don't need noise reduction or have to work with UHD video. If you have any questions about it, let me know. I use it exclusively for video now. I don't know it as deeply as I know Premier, but I could try to answer any questions you may have. Best thing to do is just download it and install it. Learn DaVinci's key commands and make little note cards with your typical workflow on it for reference to get it under your belt.
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