Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

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ZeroZero
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Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by ZeroZero » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:50 pm

Just about to build a new PC using C10. Would a I9 or I7 be best? Top end i7 or lowish end i9

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Z
Cubase 9, 64 bit Intel 8700k, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM PC, Win10, Focusrite Liquid 56 Running in Surround 5.1 British Rail sandwich circa 1967, a singing fish and an inert K9.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by KHS » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:05 pm

What is a lowish end I9?

I would get the I9-9900K.
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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by MarcoE » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:59 pm

I think that's the one (I9-9900K) he mentioned with "lowish end".
I also want to build a new computer dedicated for Cubase and I'm thinking about the I9-9900K as well. Because of the 2 threads per core, what I guess is beneficial for parallel audio processing.
However, I'm waiting until Jan when the availability is better and hopefully the prices will get down.
Cubase Pro 10.0.30 @ Windows 10 Home v1903 @ i9-9900K 32GB @ Gigabyte Z370 HD3P

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by HarrySound » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:21 pm

In this day and age it really doesn't matter.
In recent years you could ask any i7 to do any audio task and it would happily carry it out.
Your CPU needs to be strong if you plan on using many effects and many instruments etc but even on an i7 (3770 variant from 2012) CPU never goes above 20% usage.
Invest in really fast storage if your using sample instruments and make sure you get a tonne of ram. I have 16 but sometimes struggle with that. 24 would be just about enough, 32 is headroom for the next half decade and more...

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by MarcoE » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:05 pm

Yes, I agree.
I use many soft synths and effects. My current laptop with an i7-4700MQ@2.40GHz with 16GB RAM can't handle my projects anymore.
Freezing tracks all the time slows my workflow down...
Cubase Pro 10.0.30 @ Windows 10 Home v1903 @ i9-9900K 32GB @ Gigabyte Z370 HD3P

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by st33l » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:45 pm

For you that is thinking of upgrading your daws maybe this can be helpful reading
http://www.scanproaudio.info/2018/10/19 ... e-refresh/
Cubase 9.540 Pro, Fireface 800, 32gb corsair 3200 mhz ram, i7 7820x skylake x @4200mhz, samsung ssd:s and nvme.2 drives, 2x UAD2 solo, audient 880, rane hc6, LA-610 MKII, warm audio EQP-WA, Presonus central station, Kramer guitars, Esp guitars, Axe FX II, Kempers, Matrix and Mesa amps, Marshall and Randall 4x12 cabinets, Neumann, shure, akg mics, Ebs basspreamp, Roland td12 ddrumkit, Superior Drummer 3.12

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by uarte » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:08 pm

My advice -- get the most powerful CPU you can afford, BUT make sure you consider overall balance in your budget. Simple as that. Just take into account that there are numerous other factors and your studio (and DAW specifically) is really limited by the weakest link in the pipeline. If you've spent all your money on the CPU and not given yourself the benefit of plenty of SSD storage, then you're out of balance. If you've spent all your money on your DAW but you have an audio interface that has lousy driver performance, then you're out of balance. If you've spent all your money on your DAW and audio interface, but you have lousy monitors or lousy room treatment, or... you get the point. Just balance your studio and you'll be better off overall. A modern i7 or i9 with lots of RAM and SSD space plus great audio i/o with low latency drivers is a miracle machine.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by HarrySound » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:37 pm

It's worth noting that i9s are just the cream of the crop i7 chips anyway.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by peakae » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:56 pm

The new i7's do not have HT anymore.
i9 is really the only way to go, something like the 7920 should also be considered imho
Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Elements 9, I7 3770K , win10x64, 16Gb Ram, RME Raydat, Steinberg MR816x, Motu 828mkII, Behringer ADA8200, Yamaha moXF6, Steinberg UR242, Yamaha THR 10, Grace Design m900, CMC TP, CMC CH.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by ZeroZero » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:19 pm

Thank you for The replies. I have decided to go with the 8700k and leave the i9. I shall invest the savings in a Samsung pro M2 for windows and maybe get more RAM
I am now checking mobos. Probably I shall go for a Asus ROG with 390 chipset.
Cubase 9, 64 bit Intel 8700k, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM PC, Win10, Focusrite Liquid 56 Running in Surround 5.1 British Rail sandwich circa 1967, a singing fish and an inert K9.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by uarte » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:43 pm

ZeroZero wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:19 pm
Thank you for The replies. I have decided to go with the 8700k and leave the i9. I shall invest the savings in a Samsung pro M2 for windows and maybe get more RAM
I am now checking mobos. Probably I shall go for a Asus ROG with 390 chipset.
That's a great CPU and a good value too... with some good SSD storage, plenty of RAM and a good low-latency audio interface, that should handle complex Cubase projects with ease.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by RuffRider » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:31 pm

Have a look at the Gigabyte Z390-Designare mother board if you're interested in Thunderbolt. This MOBO has the Thunderbolt hardware bolted to the board and does not require the use of a PCI card. Among other nice attributes.


https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-ne ... t-creators

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by ZeroZero » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:33 am

Thank you all for the replies. I am now on a mobo hunt. I have narrowed down to an Asus ROG but there are so many models to chose from and it's hard distinguishing the features. So far I have not found a comparison site.
I will buy a 390 chipset board but even this narrowing down leaves about 8 boards to choose from. I have no interest in games this is a music PC. I have an external Sound device. I run two 49" TVs as monitors.
There is some new Intel tech called Optane, which is integrated into some new high end boards. It's a cache which accelerates drives by copying the frequently used code into its fast non volatile memory which then is fed faster into the CPU. So far I have understood that it can significantyl speed up Windows and large HHD drives but because I shall be using the faster NVME M2 and SSD drives, I am not sure these drives will increase in speed. Also, because the tech works by copying the most used code into the (faster) cache - from the HHD drive, I am not sure if this will work with samples as they are typically not used on a frequnt basis - more 'one off'.
For those that are interested, you need a generation 7 or 8 mobo, often an updated BIOS and if your MOBO does not have Optane integrated, it can be purchased on M2 - cheaply (circa £30)

Opinions?

Currently I am thinking of a Samsung M2 NVME 500gig for Windows probably Evo, Then three SSDs one tiny one for writing projects and 2 Samsung Evos for samples 1 tb and 1.5 tb
Hopefully this should near max the system. I am a bit unsure about what busses might be shared.

Would love some feedback from Cubase Gurus

Z
Cubase 9, 64 bit Intel 8700k, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM PC, Win10, Focusrite Liquid 56 Running in Surround 5.1 British Rail sandwich circa 1967, a singing fish and an inert K9.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Zero_Zero

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by Patepro » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:23 pm

Hi zerozero,
got an 8700K for a year with an asus prime-a board (its z370). Overclocked on all cores to 4,7GHz - temps idle 34 - load 65-70.
Very good board concerning latency - no spikes - just make music.
C10 - Windows 10-64
i7 8700K - Asus-Prime-A - 32 GB RAM - MSI GTX1070 - Apple Cinema 30
RME UCX (USB used) - many VSTi, many plugs

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by ZeroZero » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:03 pm

About to pounce on this board

ASUS ROG Strix Z390-E Gaming LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel Z390 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard
Cubase 9, 64 bit Intel 8700k, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM PC, Win10, Focusrite Liquid 56 Running in Surround 5.1 British Rail sandwich circa 1967, a singing fish and an inert K9.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by mitchiemasha » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:50 am

ZeroZero wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:33 am
Currently I am thinking of a Samsung M2 NVME 500gig for Windows probably Evo,
You missed out on Amazon sale yesta. I picked up a Samsung M.2 NVME Pro. The Evos' didn't even stay on promo for their allotted time.

edit: The Pro is still on offer. The main advantage of the PRO model is it has double the predicted lifetime, Tb writes. Worth it as we're constantly rewritinting, bouncing samples, rendering etc. The Evo uses Turbo Write Cache to cheat it's way to the top speeds, however, it's so big you'll never out do it. The older models had more differences between the Pro Evo. It's also worth pointing out, if you buy the bigger drive, the Turbo Cache is bigger and the lifetime matches the smaller Pro, due to it being larger.

Here's a few helpful links for MB... I'm currently deciding. Awaiting crazy sales. z390 is the choice, it's what z370 should of been.

Shows us the Gigabyte in 1 page
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-Z390- ... aorus&th=1

Use this for reference the spec
https://www.gigabyte.com/Search?kw=z390

Unfortunately we can't do the same with links for Asus Rog.

As for chips, i5 9600k, i7 9700k... should be the choice over 8th gen. Real cores beat fake cores and the heatspreader is directly soldered now. That's more stable result locking the OC.
W10, CP10, i7 9700k, Noctua NH-U9S, MSI z390, 16Gb 3000Mhz DDR4, PCIe NVME 970 Pro, AC-1 Carillon Case, Be Quiet Straight Power 11, Virus TI (Integrated), Yamaha CS2x (Custom Mapped), Novation Stations, Nord Rack 2, JV1080, 2x Presonus Firestudio, Dynaudio BM5's mkII & Eve SC305's.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by noisewreck » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:43 am

For the time being I'd steer clear of the ASUS Z390 boards if you're going to use 9900k, especially if thinking about overclocking as they cheaped out on the VRMs.

At this point Gigabyte has the best VRMs, meaning they stay cooler, which means VRMs will throttle less and can support better overclocking.

Other than that take look at ASRock if youre really hate the Gigabyte BIOS.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by ZeroZero » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:06 pm

Ive built this now, I am happy enough but I do get your point. I used an 8700k. Next time it will be a gigabyte as Asus support is really poor
Cubase 9, 64 bit Intel 8700k, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM PC, Win10, Focusrite Liquid 56 Running in Surround 5.1 British Rail sandwich circa 1967, a singing fish and an inert K9.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by peakae » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:46 pm

Actually gigabyte has poor support compared to Asus regarding bios updates.
I would not worry, Gigabyte, Asus, MSI and even Asrock make great boards these days.
Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Elements 9, I7 3770K , win10x64, 16Gb Ram, RME Raydat, Steinberg MR816x, Motu 828mkII, Behringer ADA8200, Yamaha moXF6, Steinberg UR242, Yamaha THR 10, Grace Design m900, CMC TP, CMC CH.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by robw » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:49 pm

mitchiemasha wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:50 am
As for chips, i5 9600k, i7 9700k... should be the choice over 8th gen. Real cores beat fake cores...
Without wishing to offend the poster I wish to correct this statement:

Real core vs hyper threading - This statement is overly simplified and incorrect when it comes to VSTi performance - the i7-8700k will out perform an i7-9700k on VSTi low latency loads. This is evidenced in the scanproaudio DAWBench VSTi results which are mentioned elsewhere in this thread an others. It’s an excellent article and well worth a read.

Benchmarks against actual loads are more important for real-time applications than the intricacies of how the different hardware components work. Whilst real cores do perform better than logical cores (so indicated by the poster), it is, as the benchmarks show, true that more logical cores output perform fewer actual cores. Similarly, more cores and heat with lower clock speed perform worse than fewer cores, less heat and higher clock speed - for real time VSTi loads in many cases (though even this statement is slowly shifting as things like Cubase 10 and Windows 10 improve threading).

I don’t want to start an argument, nor offend the original poster who is under many circumstances correct. It’s simply a case that highly multithreaded real time applications and multi-core processors are not easily simplified which is why we should be grateful that folks like scanproaudio take the time and energy to do a thorough benchmark and write it up for us. Thanks folks!
Cubase 10 | Steinberg UR44 | Korg Kronos X
Intel i9 9900K | ASUS Z370 | 64 Gigs RAM | NVIDIA RTX2080
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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by mitchiemasha » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:50 am

robw wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:49 pm
Real core vs hyper threading - This statement is overly simplified and incorrect when it comes to VSTi performance
No offence taken... I love it when I'm wrong, this is how I learn. Thank you.

I did read that article and I was under the impression that it was at tighter latencies 'live' conditions to which the 9700k stood out. I'll have a reread after posting this.

There's also a few other things to consider here.
A Motherboard with good VRM's and cooling will easily all core clock the new i7 to 5.0, even further if you're lucky. Current and thermal throttling is an issue. The new z390s do have heatsinks on the VRMs but heat build up under the board can be problematic. VRM's are improving but in many cases inadequate. It's a lot harder to really push the old i7 unless you delid it and, if you're using an older MB, there's a good chance you wont get the power anyways.

Many people have reported better performance with less issues when turning off HT (possibly placebo), even though those issues have been addressed. If this ends up being the case, the comparison would seriously change.

The original statement is overly simplified but I believe "Real core vs HT" is still true. Whilst the older 8700k might outperform the 9700k, that's because it's not a 4+4HT chip, which would be the correct comparison 8v8, not 12v8 (but yea! that's not how I used it, my bad!!!).

My understanding is that HT works by utilising the unused part of a core whilst it's waiting, not doing anything. If maxing out all 6 real cores there's no room left for the HT to find its resources. HT will shine in real time applications thanks to large ASIO buffers, there's plenty of moments 1 core can't do anything because the info it needs on the other core hasn't been processed yet. But, I don't think they're quite there yet, especially when utilising synths like Avenger.

Thanks to so many not excited reviewers the new i7 stayed well stocked and at a much lower than expected BF sale price. My initial build was to be the new i5 but I always wanted the extra quirks of an i7 without HT. This was the chip I'd been waiting for, especially when I paid less for it than the old i7. Coupled with an NVMe PCIe drive, I really did want that "fastest core possible", all whilst maintaining silence.

Please pick my words to pieces, I don't get offended, especially when told how I'm wrong. Choosing the right words can be a real struggle and only in these exchanges can we improve. Thank you.
W10, CP10, i7 9700k, Noctua NH-U9S, MSI z390, 16Gb 3000Mhz DDR4, PCIe NVME 970 Pro, AC-1 Carillon Case, Be Quiet Straight Power 11, Virus TI (Integrated), Yamaha CS2x (Custom Mapped), Novation Stations, Nord Rack 2, JV1080, 2x Presonus Firestudio, Dynaudio BM5's mkII & Eve SC305's.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by Secretly » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:56 am

I'm following. Still can't decide.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by mitchiemasha » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:25 pm

One thing I can be sure on is the Noctua Fan... This thing blew me away. I Can't believe how quiet it is.
W10, CP10, i7 9700k, Noctua NH-U9S, MSI z390, 16Gb 3000Mhz DDR4, PCIe NVME 970 Pro, AC-1 Carillon Case, Be Quiet Straight Power 11, Virus TI (Integrated), Yamaha CS2x (Custom Mapped), Novation Stations, Nord Rack 2, JV1080, 2x Presonus Firestudio, Dynaudio BM5's mkII & Eve SC305's.

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Re: Cubase 10 new build - I7 or I9?

Post by robw » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:54 pm

mitchiemasha wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:50 am
robw wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:49 pm
Real core vs hyper threading - This statement is overly simplified and incorrect when it comes to VSTi performance
No offence taken... I love it when I'm wrong, this is how I learn. Thank you.

I did read that article and I was under the impression that it was at tighter latencies 'live' conditions to which the 9700k stood out. I'll have a reread after posting this.

There's also a few other things to consider here.
It’s so nice to add information to a conversation without having someone immediately taking personal offense. This forum is generally much better at that than some others I read. Compliments to this community!

To me the benchmarks really show the quite severe impact of low latencies on overall performance. It seems to me choice comes to how that impacts a particular users workflow, and what balance of HT vs real cores and at what clock speeds and of course budget.

Your description of overclocking challenges is quite important, and of course the over clocking if stable will change the balance significantly as well. It’s difficult to extrapolate well but one might even favour a higher clocked 9th Gen i7 over the 8th Gen i7 wiht its HT when over clocked.

All in all I think this thread has some good information for folks to make an informed choice. I doubt anyone would be disappointed with the performance of any of the current crop of intel CPUs so budget might be the best decision maker.

Something I have found interesting wiht Cubase 10 in my current system, ye olde 3rd Gen quad core + HT i7-3770, is I am getting significantly improved performance over Cubase 9.5.x. I did multiple upgrades whilst I had some time recently with Cubase to 10, Windows to 1809, Windows 10 Home to Pro. I now have far more stable realtime VST performance meter and as a result much higher VSTi performance overall (ASIO Guard and HT on) - so much so I have deferred my hardware update. Which is a bit disappointing because I’m currently in a position to afford any of the CPUs but now I have no excuse!
Cubase 10 | Steinberg UR44 | Korg Kronos X
Intel i9 9900K | ASUS Z370 | 64 Gigs RAM | NVIDIA RTX2080
NI Komplete Ultimate Collectors Edition 12 | Steinberg Pad Shop Pro, Halion 6 | Composer Cloud X

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