RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

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RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:07 pm

Hi folks,

I was looking to see if there is a CARBON COPY style DELAY FX within CUBASE ARTIST 8 please? There are DELAYS within ROOMWORKS entitled: PING PONG, STEREO and MONO. But I can not specifically locate a CARBON COPY (should such a plug-in exist).

And REVERENCE encompasses only REVERBS it appears.

I have recorded a MOOG demonstration and this particular FX was recommended to me to enhance the track.

Many thanks in advance . . .

Paul David Seaman
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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by lukasbrooklyn » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:55 pm

i suppose you are refering to the carbon copy guitar fx pedal. all it does is delay, mix, and feedback. any delay will have these capabilities, including those bundled with cubase.

you may want to dirty it up later though. perhaps one of interruptor's free delays will give you the result in a single box. http://www.interruptor.ch/vst_donationware.shtml

h-delay by waves is really nice if you don't mind paying.
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
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http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:30 pm

Thank you Lukas,

Well, I actually have an MXR (169) CARBON COPY PEDAL which I use for my RHODES PIANO. MONO IN and MONO OUT. Looks like it offers MONO IN and MONO OUT (which is of course fine for the MOOG). It has REGEN, MIX and DELAY dials with a MOD [modulation] button thrown in).

Not sure how clean a SIGNAL who be produced from the MOOG thru the CC to CUBASE?

As you know, if I RECORD with a hardware pedal then I am stuck with the recording (unless I also record a DRY version alongside every PASS).

Also, I did not really want to have to hook up the pedal every time I wanted a CC FX (though I admit it is not such a massive inconvenience).

Finally, I was wondering if the hardware model will ALWAYS be BETTER than the VST version simple because the former is the genuine article!?

Best,

Paul
Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:36 pm

Lukas,

btw - here is the MULTIMOOG track uploaded to PICOSONG:

http://picosong.com/gLs2/

DRY and DIRECT from the MOOG into the STEINBERG CI2+ soundcard.

Much appreciated,

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by lukasbrooklyn » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:52 pm

monsterjazzlicks wrote:Lukas,

btw - here is the MULTIMOOG track uploaded to PICOSONG:

http://picosong.com/gLs2/

DRY and DIRECT from the MOOG into the STEINBERG CI2+ soundcard.

Much appreciated,

Paul
yeah hardware is always an inconvenience in a way, i think the source is more important. in this case i'd hazard saying something's not right with the recording chain as the moog recording is seriously lacking in detail and fidelity.
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:16 am

Lukas,
lukasbrooklyn wrote:yeah hardware is always an inconvenience in a way, i think the source is more important. in this case i'd hazard saying something's not right with the recording chain as the moog recording is seriously lacking in detail and fidelity.
By SOURCE do you mean the MOOG and/or the MXR CC please?

There are 2 x OUT's on the MULTIMOOG. Hi (-10dB) and Lo (+12dB) (respectively). I came out of the LO.

It sounds ok-ish to me but I am only a novice in this field. Though there it no EQ or anything whatsoever so just the raw sound of the MOOG. Just a jack lead from the MOOG straight into the soundcard.

Here is another self-creation I made using the MOOG. Same PATCH except minus all of the real time tweaking (and no SAMPLE & HOLD):

http://picosong.com/g5v2/

Much appreciated,

Paul
MM.PNG
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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:12 pm

Hi,
lukasbrooklyn wrote:yeah hardware is always an inconvenience in a way, i think the source is more important. in this case i'd hazard saying something's not right with the recording chain as the moog recording is seriously lacking in detail and fidelity.
So maybe I should try the HI OUTPUT and the hardware MXR CARBON COPY with the MOOG?

Ta,

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by lukasbrooklyn » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:10 am

monsterjazzlicks wrote:Hi,
lukasbrooklyn wrote:yeah hardware is always an inconvenience in a way, i think the source is more important. in this case i'd hazard saying something's not right with the recording chain as the moog recording is seriously lacking in detail and fidelity.
So maybe I should try the HI OUTPUT and the hardware MXR CARBON COPY with the MOOG?

Ta,

Paul
you can try, try to find the sweet spot between gain and noise floor (which i heard in the recording).
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:53 am

Hi Lukas,

I spent a while this evening hooking up and experimenting with the MULTIMOOG thru an (hardware) MXR CARBON COPY PEDAL (and then into CUBASE).

Lot's of OCTAVE switching going on (in real time) and application of FILTER MOD (via the WHEEL). Mostly blowing over a Bb Mixolydian and Bb Blues scales (though the piece does have a certain amount of structure about it). A little superimposing just at the very end (ie fade in/out of arpeggios), though other than that it is all 1 x track performed live.

Anyway Lukas, this time I used the HI OUTPUT (+12 dB) on the MULTIMOOG.

ISSUE = The MXR takes away some of the edge and fullness of the MULTIMOOG (even when you just activate it will all the DIALS at ZERO)? Also, some aliasing (for lack of a better term) when playing in the UPPER REGISTER of the MULTI (when the MXR is activated)?

A choice of You Tube or PicoSong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1ESTh- ... e=youtu.be

http://picosong.com/gJYc

Cheers,

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:44 pm

Hi,

So am I correct please in that there is definitely no CARBON COPY DELAY within ARTIST 8 please?

Here is a screenshot of REVERENCE and when I performed a search:
Rev_1.png
Rev_1
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Rev_2.PNG
Rev_2
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Ta,

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by lukasbrooklyn » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:47 pm

monsterjazzlicks wrote:Hi,

So am I correct please in that there is definitely no CARBON COPY DELAY within ARTIST 8 please?

Here is a screenshot of REVERENCE and when I performed a search:
Rev_1.png
Rev_2.PNG
Ta,

Paul
use the ModMachine native plugin, that one offers modulation of the feedback signal.
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:54 pm

Thanks Lukas,
monsterjazzlicks wrote:So am I correct please in that there is definitely no CARBON COPY DELAY within ARTIST 8 please?
lukasbrooklyn wrote:use the ModMachine native plugin, that one offers modulation of the feedback signal.
Do uou mean PURCHASE the NI plug-in? As I do not own any NI VST's.

Did you have a chance to listen to the MOOG with MXR CC demonstration I uploaded earlier please using the HI OUTPUT (+12dB)?

Best,

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by PeppaPig » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:10 pm

"native" as in native to Cubase, just start typing "mod" in the search window when you click on an empty insert slot and you'll find it.
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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by PeppaPig » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:12 pm

"So am I correct please in that there is definitely no CARBON COPY DELAY within ARTIST 8 please?"

There are four different delays with Cubase - again in the empty insert slot type "delay" to list them.
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:57 pm

Hi PepperPig,
PeppaPig wrote:"native" as in native to Cubase, just start typing "mod" in the search window when you click on an empty insert slot and you'll find it.
Ok, thanks man. I am still very much a NOVICE in CUBASE so I appreciate the help.

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:59 pm

Thanks PP,
PeppaPig wrote:"So am I correct please in that there is definitely no CARBON COPY DELAY within ARTIST 8 please?"

There are four different delays with Cubase - again in the empty insert slot type "delay" to list them.
I will take a look . . .

Best,

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:57 am

Hi,

Well one thing I found out for sure tonight is: using the HI OUTPUT on the MULTI circa DOUBLES the amount (level) of artifacts when the MXR CC is activated. I changed it round last night to try this different OUTPUT, and at the same time, hooked up the MXR. Bad idea because I should have eliminated each individually. But I just realized tonight that the OUTPUT was HI so I changed it back to LO, and the results were better.

I may try and make a dedicated recording tomorrow. The artifacts are ONLY in the UPPER (2') register. And they sound almost pitch-like (ie high harmonics).

Best,

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:59 am

Hello,

Here is a piece I made tonight after putting some time in thinking more about the MXR CARBON COPY DELAYsettings.

I set it to (what I would term) a SINGLE MEDUIM DELAY and tried (with little success) to play/keep in TIME with the damn thing! (I did not realize how tricky it was) :? But this was partly because I was trying to concentrate on shaping the FILTER and EG RELEASE (that's my excuse anyway!).

Because, as mentioned above, I came from the LO OUTPUT on the MULTI, the artifacts are somewhat reduced.

I EXPORTED this (from CUBASE) as MP3 @ 44.1 and 48kHz (the latter being the highest option in mpeg). Though the FILE SIZE was IDENTICAL for both (2.21MB)?! And similarly I EXPORTED the WAV's @ 44.1 and 96kHz (39MB and 84MB respectively). But they are too big to upload to most places (though I could upload to MyDrive [Google] if anyone was interested in comparing)?

Anyway, here it is on You Tube and PicoSong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi9Q8aXkpIo

http://picosong.com/g6x6

Many thanks,

Paul
Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:03 am

Hello PepperPig,

Thanks for your pointers.

I had a look as you kindly suggested but I was not able to locate it. Though more than likely I may have done something incorrectly!

Please see screenshot result below:
Mod_Mach.png
Mod_Mach
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Many thanks,

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by PeppaPig » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:32 pm

It looks like ModMachine isn't included with Cubase Artist - I wonder what freebe alternatives are available?
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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:31 pm

PepperPig,
PeppaPig wrote:It looks like ModMachine isn't included with Cubase Artist - I wonder what freebe alternatives are available?
Thanks for confirming that. I thought I was going mad!

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:57 pm

"Funky Slap Back" - dedicated to Mark Warren, London, UK (Seaman - 2015).

Rockin' out on the MULTIMOOG with MXR DELAY set to produce a SLAP BACK FX.

The SPEED is so fast that it sounds almost like double-tracking/chorus!

Performed in 1 x pass with exception to the INTRO and ENDING (which use a slightly different PATCH), and the PORTAMENTO FX (midway point OVERDUB) which uses a very LONG DELAY (time).

'Twas a bugger to try and play! :shock:

It is uploaded to both You Tube and PicoSong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmZ99fW ... e=youtu.be)

http://picosong.com/gQ6g

Cheers,

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:20 am

Hello,

Here is an example of the artifacts on the MultiMoog with the MXR CC DELAY pedal.

I play a few notes in three different registers without the MXR, and then the same pattern again (more or less) with the MXR turned ON. The HIGHER I play, the MORE the artifacts become present.

I watched a couple of You Tube videos (of guitarists) and they both raved about how pure and clean the MXR delay FEEDBACK's were (ie the reproduction tone was unaffected).

I uploaded the demo to PicoSound:

http://picosong.com/gQhs

Much appreciated,

Paul

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by PeppaPig » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:27 pm

Just looked up the MXR carbon copy it's just a simple up to 600ms delay - any Cubase Artist ones will be far better. monodelay, pingpong delay, StereoDelay - just type "delay" in the same searchbox you used before. If you want to make it sound a bit more analog just insert Magneto ahead of the delay to "soften" the sound a but. Quadrafuzz V2 also has its own built in delay so you can emulate old tapedelays. All of these are available in Cubase Artist.

If you want a pure artifact free delay the standard Cubase ones will give you exactly that. VST Amp rack also has delay pedals available.
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

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Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:35 pm

PepperPig,
PeppaPig wrote:Just looked up the MXR carbon copy it's just a simple up to 600ms delay - any Cubase Artist ones will be far better. monodelay, pingpong delay, StereoDelay - just type "delay" in the same searchbox you used before. If you want to make it sound a bit more analog just insert Magneto ahead of the delay to "soften" the sound a but. Quadrafuzz V2 also has its own built in delay so you can emulate old tapedelays. All of these are available in Cubase Artist.
Yes that's right, up to 600ms on the MXR.

Just seems to be an issue in the HIGH END on the MOOG. It is fine on my RHODES piano.

I will have a nose for the others (above) you kindly recommend.
PeppaPig wrote:If you want a pure artifact free delay the standard Cubase ones will give you exactly that. VST Amp rack also has delay pedals available.
So in other words, you think the CUBASE FX will produce much better results (than the MXR).

Much appreciated,

Paul

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