RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Find topics on computers, studios and music-related hardware.
User avatar
JMCecil
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3621
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:03 pm
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by JMCecil » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:48 am

So get a sound level you like without echo then slowly up the send and return levels
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

User avatar
monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:52 am

JMC,
JMCecil wrote:Yes you will get much finer control using aux return
Awesome, fingers crossed!
JMCecil wrote:So get a sound level you like without echo then slowly up the send and return levels
Gotcha.

This thread is only just started getting going. I have TONS of questions on the back burner, believe me!

I very much appreciate all your help.

Paul

User avatar
monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:05 am

Hi,

(Would be great if JMCecil could kindly advise me according here).

I have other questions regarding recording with CUBASE (will be relating to in conjunction with MOOG and DX synths). So they are not relating to the MXR DELAY and similar.

So should I open up an NEW thread? And maybe call it: "Artist 8 Novice Recording Advice Needed" (or words to that effect)? I will still be contributing the this thread on the MXR also.

Ta,

Paul

User avatar
monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:08 am

JMC,
JMCecil wrote:Yes. That mixer has a send and master return. Go to the mixer with the multi and put the cc in the aux send and return
I will try and test this out when I can this week.

I have been busy trying to deal with other CUBASE and recording issues . . .

Best,

Paul

User avatar
monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:36 am

Hi again,

I was trying to experiment with creating DELAY FX by recording a MOOG melody into CUBASE, the DUPLICATING it (the audio) using CTR+V, and HARD PANNING each track either side.

Then to create the DELAY, zooming in (CTR+H) into one of the tracks and moving (offsetting) it (to 0.03ms in this example).

Hence, would this be the correct procedure please?
MOOG_0.03_ms.png
0.03ms
(152.18 KiB) Not downloaded yet
MOOG_panning.png
panning
(130.39 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Also, what I am not sure of, mathematically, is that a MILLISECOND is a THOUSANDTH of a SECOND. So how many ZERO's should there be after decimal point please? In the (above) PNG's/recordings, it is set at 0.03ms, but people say "300ms".

So this is how I think it is:

0.03 is 300ms. I think it is actually 3 x CENTI-seconds. So is it correct in that 0.001ms = 10ms and 0.0001 = (1 ms).

Audio demo recording uploaded to PicoSong:

http://picosong.com/gNeS

Many thanks,

Paul

PeppaPig
Member
Posts: 914
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:39 pm
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by PeppaPig » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:48 am

Thickening sounds by duplicating tracks and shifting them a few milliseconds before and after is common (I usually pick the nearest mathematically correct time to 30ms) - although you can get phasing issues using this technique. Just try out the built in delay effects! Also StereoEnhancer has a (single) delay feature - this plugin is included with Artist.
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

User avatar
monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:13 pm

Hi PepperPig,
PeppaPig wrote:Thickening sounds by duplicating tracks and shifting them a few milliseconds before and after is common (I usually pick the nearest mathematically correct time to 30ms) - although you can get phasing issues using this technique. Just try out the built in delay effects! Also StereoEnhancer has a (single) delay feature - this plugin is included with Artist.
Yes, I will try the built-in CUBASE FX thanks.

So would you say that: "duplicating tracks and shifting them a few milliseconds" is not really a DELAY? Just more a a thickening of the texture?

Thanks,

Paul

User avatar
JMCecil
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3621
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:03 pm
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by JMCecil » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:20 pm

monsterjazzlicks wrote:Hi PepperPig,
PeppaPig wrote:Thickening sounds by duplicating tracks and shifting them a few milliseconds before and after is common (I usually pick the nearest mathematically correct time to 30ms) - although you can get phasing issues using this technique. Just try out the built in delay effects! Also StereoEnhancer has a (single) delay feature - this plugin is included with Artist.
Yes, I will try the built-in CUBASE FX thanks.

So would you say that: "duplicating tracks and shifting them a few milliseconds" is not really a DELAY? Just more a a thickening of the texture?

Thanks,

Paul
You're getting caught up in terminology instead of just trying to achieve a goal. Delaying by a few ms is a delay. That's exactly what it is. However, until you move it out to slap type sound, the ear will try to perceive it as a single sound hence the "thickening". You could take the duplicated track and move it 10 seconds down the track and now it won't sound like a delay because the ear will perceive it as its own source and not part of the original occurrence.
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

User avatar
monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:43 pm

Thanks JMC,
JMCecil wrote:
monsterjazzlicks wrote:
PeppaPig wrote:Thickening sounds by duplicating tracks and shifting them a few milliseconds before and after is common (I usually pick the nearest mathematically correct time to 30ms) - although you can get phasing issues using this technique. Just try out the built in delay effects! Also StereoEnhancer has a (single) delay feature - this plugin is included with Artist.
Yes, I will try the built-in CUBASE FX thanks.

So would you say that: "duplicating tracks and shifting them a few milliseconds" is not really a DELAY? Just more a a thickening of the texture?
Delaying by a few ms is a delay. That's exactly what it is. However, until you move it out to slap type sound, the ear will try to perceive it as a single sound hence the "thickening". You could take the duplicated track and move it 10 seconds down the track and now it won't sound like a delay because the ear will perceive it as its own source and not part of the original occurrence.
So i think it is like this:

It is all down to the fact of whether or not the ear detects/perceives the two (recorded) tracks as being one composite part, or two discrete instances. Where they are very close, it sounds like the thickened line. If placed too wide apart, they become two separate instances. And when set at an appropriate amount of ms apart, it is than that the realm of DELAY FX is successfully achieved.

Ta,

Paul

User avatar
monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:48 pm

<REPOST>
monsterjazzlicks wrote:Hi,

(Would be great if JMCecil could kindly advise me according here).

I have other questions regarding recording with CUBASE (will be relating to in conjunction with MOOG and DX synths). So they are not relating to the MXR DELAY and similar.

So should I open up an NEW thread? And maybe call it: "Artist 8 Novice Recording Advice Needed" (or words to that effect)? I will still be contributing the this thread on the MXR also.

Ta,

Paul

User avatar
monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:03 am

[mod edit] Please post your music to the 'Made with Steinberg' subforum

User avatar
monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:07 pm

Hi,

Regarding my earlier discussion here on the ARTEFACTS which are, unfortunately being produced using the MULTI MOOG in conjunction with the MXR delay, it was suggested (by a friend) that I try to somehow ATTENUATE the signal either PRE or POST MOOG/MXR (in order to reduce the artefacts).

I tried using my YAMAHA MG MIXING DESK both before and after the MXR signal, though sadly to no avail. It did make some difference, however not enough to reduce the unwanted aliasing to a significant degree.

Anyway, just keeping anyone interested up to date.

Cheers,

Paul

PeppaPig
Member
Posts: 914
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:39 pm
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by PeppaPig » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:00 am

I still don't see why you are so infatuated with using an external delay pedal - the on-board delays built into Cubase will be better in every way - so will most off-the-shelf freebe VSTs. : http://www.pluginboutique.com/categorie ... ?free=true The TAL ones in particular have a good rep. The delay given away by Native Instruments last Christmas (Replika) was superb but it's not available free any more.
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

User avatar
monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:35 am

Pepper Pig,

Well do you think that on a GIG, the artefacts between the MOOG/MXR will be very noticeable (ie. when they are going thru an AMP and the whole band is playing etc)?

Ta for the LINK. I have never really used or downloaded anything that is for FREE though before (just because I have [more recently] been a bit worried about viruses etc).

Paul

PeppaPig
Member
Posts: 914
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:39 pm
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by PeppaPig » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:40 am

I understand your concerns about viruses etc, that's why I sent you to a trusted site which hosts carefully selected free VSTs. Computer Music magazine also comes packed with 40+ free VSTs some of which are excellent - particularly the channel strips. Worth £6 of anyone's money to get a set of VSTs which would have cost a fortune in the "old days" : http://www.musicradar.com/computermusic ... cts-571808
Cubase Pro 10.00.40, 9.5, Pro9.0.20. WaveLab 9 EL. UA Apollo Quad FW, UA PCI Octo, UA Satelite Quad, Adam T5V, Golden Audio pre73 DLX, Behringer ADA8200, Joe Meek AC3, Intel i7 6850x@4.2Ghz (6C/12T), Asus x99 Deluxe II, AMD 6450 HD, Windows 10 Pro, Samsung 860 and 850 SSDs, 64Gb RAM - Melodyne Studio, Komplete ultimate 11, Halion 6, GA,GA2,GA3,GA4 (+sp), OZ6, OZ7, OZ8 adv, Neutron Adv, BFD3, SoundToys rack, Panorama P1, M-Audio Oxygen, Yamaha YPP55 - outboard: PRO VLAII, Digitech Time machine RDS4000, 1950s Ferrograph Series 5, Mics: AKG C1000S, Rode NT2A and M5 pair, SE2200A, SE X1R, Fame-VT67 (cheap valve U67 clone), Heil PR20&PR22, Behringer Mic2200 used for reamping with a bit of nastiness!

User avatar
monsterjazzlicks
Senior Member
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 am
Location: Wirral
Contact:

Re: RE: Carbon Copy Delay FX (help?)

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:24 am

Cheers PP,

I get offered so much stuff and crack copies for free from friends. But I always decline.

I see now, so these are from CM magazine.

I think I bought a hard copy of the mag once (for around £10) a couple of years ago and it came with a CD of plug-in's. I never INSTALLED them though as I assume they were either TRIALS or had a TIME LIMIT.

So yes, then of course they will be safe.

Ta,

Paul

Post Reply

Return to “Computer/Studio Hardware & Setup”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests