Epilogue

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Early21
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Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:54 am

Here is something I am ready to share. I am very slow, and it has been over a year, I think. In any case, I would welcome your comments and ideas. I played guitars and bass, and I input the midi for all the rest. I am still hopeful to replace much of that with recordings of my friends. In particular, I really dislike the solo cello part, but I do like it as part of the piece, so I hope to find a cellist. Any volunteers?

https://soundcloud.com/incontinentals/e ... 2018-04-09

updated version:
https://soundcloud.com/incontinentals/e ... 2018-04-17
Latest version: https://soundcloud.com/incontinentals/e ... 2018-04-30
Last edited by Early21 on Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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rotku
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Re: Epilogue

Post by rotku » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:37 pm

Really enjoyable listen. Nice sense of timing and space through the whole piece.

Early21
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:16 pm

Thanks for listening, Rotku.
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Re: Epilogue

Post by iluvstrats » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:37 am

forgot to tell you how cool this recording is.

Early21
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:44 pm

Thanks for listening, Iluvstrats, and glad you liked it!
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Pearldivers
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Pearldivers » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:28 pm

Really good track Leon. Tastefully restrained but always interesting.
Nice to hear something from you again. My kind of music for sure.

Nice time sig too, as you often have.

Perhaps the "tremmy/pedalled" chords, which are about in line with tempo from around 5:00 onwards,
could also be timed in the early sections? Just a thought, as the first few I found a bit odd?
But maybe you wanted them that way.

Are you using the guitar vol or a vol pedal to do those?

Edited bit here (sorry, a bit buggered before, long day)
Sometimes I thought the swells sounded a bit
oh. I don't know how to say it, heavy or hard? Wrong adjectives but can't think of better ones.

I'm pretty sure my son could do that cello part for you, on his "frello". I could ask if you like,
or not if not. ;)

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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:02 am

Thanks Jet, glad to have your thoughts on this. For some reason I usually have to create an odd rhythm -- guys in the band theorize I fell down the stairs as a child.

It wasn't actually a tremolo on those chords; I used the Chopper insert to make that effect. They are all timed to the beat, but maybe it was somewhat obscured, and I've re-edited to make it more clear.

About the swells, I think I understand what you are trying to say. Maybe too much "in your face". Anyway, that's how I took it, and agreed, and have edited to make them quieter and further back. These swells are often my version of a string section.

I think it might be great to have a jolly good frello in place of the midi parts. But first I'm trying to get my son to do it. He's a professional classical bassist who can play a bit of the instruments tuned in fifths, and it's an easy enough part, so first I'll twist his arm a little! I'll let you know, and thanks for offering! Caused me to listen to Victim of Stars again, and to feel jealous of the atmosphere you create in that mix. I'm going to have to study that a bit.

No new mix yet as I'm still getting some input on it. And another cool possibility is that my friend who plays drums will take the time to learn the marimba part as well, so I can replace two more midi tracks!
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Stephco » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:56 pm

Indeed, a good one, I really enjoyed the change around 3:32.
Great harmonics , also I loved the Q&A between instruments.
I would have added some more groove behind, but i'm not sure it was in your mind, given the title of the piece.
I also feel that the guitar sound should be more "crazy", seems little bit too "classic" to me. I'm not talking about the melody, but the sound itself.
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Re: Epilogue

Post by T-bag » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:14 pm

I enjoyed this track - some good technique on display - both in the cubase work and the tonality of the guitars. I felt the varied instrumentation was used well. I did find the wide stereo of the early guitar distracting - I feel it might work better placed in the stereo field than panned hard left & right. Or it could just be me and my (rather old) ears.
Well done.
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:01 pm

Thanks, Stephco, for making suggestions. It gets somewhat groovy in the middle, but the rest of the piece is meant to be reflective. Maybe I went too subdued? On the guitar, I have gotten more accustomed to a clean sound lately, but I will give this more thought. It's a good idea to make it crazier (by which I think you mean more distorted). I'll play around with that. Thanks for listening!
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:09 pm

Hi T-bag, appreciate you giving it a listen! Thanks for the comments. I think we all hear things a little differently, so it's really useful. The early guitars are panned to the left, but not all the way, and I'm using a delay to make a faint (or maybe not so faint) echo over to the right, which in my mind gives the guitar a fuller sound. Did I overdo that? Thanks again!
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:47 am

New version; thanks for all the good suggestions so far. I left the previous version up for purposes of comparison.
https://soundcloud.com/incontinentals/e ... 2018-04-17
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Stephco » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:44 am

Improved !
Starting around 1:30, approx until 2:30, I felt that the beat on the cymbals is too much repetitive, and only the beat.
If I were in your shoes, I would use from time to time another cymbal and also not hit always on the beat.
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Recrea » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:19 pm

This is great! I really enjoyed the wave effect you put it!

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Re: Epilogue

Post by swetch » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:19 am

Very nice all around. Liked the 9/8 section, and then 15/8. Very cool. I think what you did with the drums was very appropriate and good. You definitely have to keep the pulse going, as you did with the cymbals and percussion. It made me think of someone along the lines of Happy the Man, and that should be taken as a compliment. I liked the composition and the recording. Good stuff!

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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:25 am

Hi Stephco, thanks for listening again, and thanks for commenting on the ride. I think I was a bit lazy, and you spotted it! It'll be more interesting next version.
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:26 am

Thanks for listening, swetch, I don't know Happy the Man, but right after this, I'm googling it. Thanks!
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Pearldivers
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Pearldivers » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:43 am

Sounding really good. Yeah, you could mix the rides up more.

Only two thoughts: how would it sound with main guitar down the middle,
the other/s as they are on the left? And what do you think of sustained final notes to fade?
As the end sits now, it just seems to expire.

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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:42 am

Jet, thanks for listening again. As I replied to Stephco, I need to fix the rides.

I do also agree with you comment on the ending, and I can improve that.

Guitar stereo position: was actually thinking about that myself. It's a constant dilemma. First, by main guitar, I think you mean the one that usually plays melody (although it also plays the swells). That's generally left. It is usually playing in harmony with piano, which is generally right. And there is a mono delay of main guitar hard right, which I want to be just loud enough so it is not perceived as a second thing. It's got a humpy eq, so it's really just the mid-frequencies. So in a way, main guitar starts on the left and finishes (faintly) on the right. It just sounds fuller that way to me. And I do similar techniques on other instruments. I didn't go to mixing school, so it's something from the mixing books. One other thing to admit is that main guitar melody is often reinforced with a rhodes playing the same notes way over on the right, just loud enough so that you can't hear them, but if you mute the rhodes, you hear its absence.

The other guitar, which is sort of an effects guitar, is sometimes counterbalancing piano on the right, and sometimes counterbalancing main guitar on the left. So I thought about putting that guitar in the middle. Except it also has delays, echoes, etc., that want to be on the opposite side of wherever it is. So in the latest mix (which you have not heard yet), I decided to try flipping it from left to right depending on the situation, along with its effects. I am not really sure if that is allowed! But I think I like it better.

Good stereo is complicated! Very different from the classical recordings I'm doing, where the position of each instrument is well defined by timing differences between the main stereo pair of mics. Maybe there are expert mixers who know how to make use of that in rock recordings, but it seems to me that stereo position is usually defined only by relative volume on each side. But then they are using all sorts of delay tricks to create a sense of space, and I don't know those tricks. At least yet.
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Pearldivers
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Pearldivers » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:16 pm

Agree that sometimes positioning throws up a few issues.
Sometimes I just think WGAS and let it all sit how I want it to sit.
But this (last) mix made me think that it seemed there was a hole
in the middle.

Anyways, let us hear mix #3 when ya ready.

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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Tue May 01, 2018 3:25 am

New version, attempting to make use of the great suggestions here. Ride cymbal completely changed. Fade at the end more drawn out. Balance of instruments messed with. Reverb soup minimized (I think I had gotten carried away on that). Other things too. Still hoping to replace parts with live humans, so at some point, I expect to remix this one again. Thanks for anyone's thoughts.
https://soundcloud.com/incontinentals/e ... 2018-04-30
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Early21
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Tue May 01, 2018 3:26 am

and it took me two weeks to figure out what WGAS stood for.
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Stephco » Tue May 29, 2018 10:46 am

yeah! like it!
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Early21
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Re: Epilogue

Post by Early21 » Thu May 31, 2018 2:15 pm

Thanks for giving it another listen, and thanks for the good suggestions, Stephco!
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Re: Epilogue

Post by polgara » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:59 pm

Hi Leon ,excellent stuff ,you have a sound and style very recognizable.
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