VST Connect MTC Output?

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pondwalden
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VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by pondwalden »

As I was getting VST Connect working with a remote musician today, we were excited to discover the MTC output option and MTC Frame Rate options on the Performer app.

I am recording a TV score and we were hoping to be able to sync video running in a slave DAW with the VST Performer app. We set these outputs to be IAC midi driver in MacOS and had Logic set to receive MTC sync.

It worked kinda. Logic on the remote machine would chase every time I started playback on my host machine, but it would always go to the same place ( 00.57.54.00) regardless of where I started my host Cubase session. It also seemed to be a standing loop at that time code and would not play forward. The subframes would twitch incessantly, but the wiper would not move. We know that the remote Logic is set to sync properly because if my musician launches Cubase on his machine and starts playback, Logic chases the MTC from Cubase perfectly via the IAC driver.

I spent some time with support on Steinberg Support chat and the technician told me that VST performer was only designed for a musician to play MIDI remotely and that we were trying to do something the software wasn't designed for.
If that's true, why are there even the options for MTC output and Frame Rate? The only possible reason that these options exist is for video sync, right????!!.

Anyone else had any experience with this?
Steiny, you've got a goldmine in this environment right now if you can get this working!!!! :)
Last edited by pondwalden on Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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musicullum
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by musicullum »

Yes, it is supposed to work like that. Unfortunately, there is still a bug in the current versions that explains what you describe. Sorry, we'll fix asap!
musi

pondwalden
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by pondwalden »

Thank you for responding Musicullum! I was so confused after talking with support.

I'm excited at the potential here. Can't wait till it's rolling!!!!

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musicullum
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by musicullum »

I made a test:
computer a) running Cubase 10.5 with VST Connect PRO
computer b) running Performer, connected to a)
computer c) running Cubase 10.0 set to MTC sync
(all Windows)
Works as intented. It does chase to the running position and follows tc as expected.
Now I can't tell about Logic, but if Cubase does it right I'd expect it to work the same way?
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pondwalden
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by pondwalden »

question....with 3 computers, I'm assuming that computer a) was at a different physical location from b) and c). And that computer b) and c) are on the same physical network and b) is talking to c) via some form of network MIDI?


Ok, I'll try again with a different VST performer rig. here was my initial setup.

computer a) (2019 MacPro - Catalina) running Cubase 10.5 with VST Connect PRO
computer b) (2014 MacMini - High Sierra) running VST Performer and current version of Logic Pro connected to a)

On computer b), I had Performer sending MTC via IAC midi driver to Logic.

I can try with a different computer b) setup. I have a place with another 2019 MacPro I will try to connect with.

pondwalden
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by pondwalden »

OK, So I tried a new Computer b) at a different location this afternoon.

The good: Logic did chase when playback from Cubase on Computer a) was playing.
The bad: Logic was playing about 1hr 33mins and 13 secs AHEAD of Computer b) in Timecode.

Unfortunately there's no way to now exactly how much the two are off sync otherwise I could just offset the movie in Logic.

I tried this test with Digital Performer and ProTools all on Computer b) with exactly the same results. All the DAWs would slave to the MTC coming from VST Performer, but all of them were playing back around 1hr 33mins and 13 secs AHEAD of the timecode that my master Cubase session on Computer a) was sending.

Both Master and Slave computers are 2019 Mac Pros (Catalina) with virtually identical software configurations.

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musicullum
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by musicullum »

As reported, it synced fine with Cubase as slave. Are you able to test this as well? Also make sure there are no time offsets in the project settings of either program.
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pondwalden
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by pondwalden »

Ok, so I figured out what the issue is.

All DAWs are syncing correctly, but VST Performer is sending MTC code of 0.0.0.0 for bar 1 of the Host Cubase session regardless of what the MTC of Host session is actually set to.

Ex.
CompA Cubase Session Timecode for bar 1 = 1.40.00.00
CompB VST Performer MTC output relays bar 1 as 0.0.0.0

CompA Cubase Session Timecode for bar 1 = 1.15.04.12
CompB VST Performer MTC output relays bar 1 as 0.0.0.0

I tried all this with Mac and Windows computers as both hosts and slaves.

This explains the wild out of sync issues I had with the other DAWs. And yes, I did get Cubase to sync on the CompB/VST Performer Machine once I figured out what was happening. It had the same results.

Is there a way to get VST Performer to transmit the ACTUAL Timecode coming from the CompA Host Session?
Otherwise the only way the MTC output works is if both the host and the slave sessions start at 0.0.0.0

Unfortunately for scoring that's not super useful as every cue/project is going to have a different Timecode start.

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musicullum
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by musicullum »

What do you mean by "the MTC of Host session", or "Cubase Session Timecode"? If you mean Project Settings Start Offset - that makes sense. Will check if we can get that Information.
We also plan an (additional) MTC/LTC Offset setting in Performer.
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pondwalden
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by pondwalden »

My apologies for the confusing terminology.

In the Host Cubase Project.....Under Project-Project Setup-Project Start Time.....
-if this is set to anything but 0.0.0.0, VST Performer's MTC output won't be in sync with the Host Cubase session.

It would be great if Performer would automatically read this setting from and adjust to be in sync with the host Cubase Project.

It would also be completely usable (though a hair less convenient) to simply have an MTC start(or offset) setting in Performer. As long as this could be adjusted from the Cubase Plugin side of things and not have to be done by the Performer.

(also, having a true 23.98 FPS option would be great since that's the majority of Broadcast projects. That's a subtle thing though and not a show stopper since 24 FPS is pretty close)

Thanks so much!!!

pondwalden
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by pondwalden »

One other small request would be to have the option to have the Bar/Beats counter pop out of the Performer app like the Video does and be able to be scaled bigger.

In any case, thank you for being on the forefront of this capability. No one else including SC comes close to the level of integration and usability that VST-C is capable of.

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musicullum
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by musicullum »

a) yes, that's the Start Offset and we'll try to get hold of that information and add it as an offset if possible, b) add. MTC offset will have to be adjusted by Performer initially, but planned to make Studio adjustable later, c) Timecode for 23.98 is just 24, only the speed changes.
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pondwalden
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by pondwalden »

Fabulous, thank you! Looking forward to the new features!

basicX
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by basicX »

Hey there,

just got pointed to this threat ...

My question/ request would be:
Why are you don't use the proper MTC generated by Nuendo/ Cubase anyway. It could create an offset inside the synchronisation setup if needed.
Actually, why not have Vst connect as Midi input inside of the host (nuendo/cubase) and simply use the hosts (cubase/nuendo) MTC generator to feed VST Connect.
This way you would have full control over any parameter needed form the studio side.
Wouldn't that be way easier to implement?
Studios: Nuendo 10.3, Cubase 10 Pro, PT 11.3.1
I/O: Full blown Focusrite RedNet Setup. 3xRed4pre, 2xRed x2p
Plugins from Sonnox, Waves, iZotope, UAD, Plugin Alliance Mega Pack, and so on...)

Windows 10 Pro x64
Main System from Digital Audio Networx
Intel i9 14core, Gigabyte, 64GB Ram, GF 1050ti, UAD Quad, 3 * Avid Artis Mix

Pro Audio Broadcast Post for german and international clients
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basicX
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Re: VST Connect MTC Output?

Post by basicX »

Or even have an MTC input path to VST connect.
This way i could use a midi loopback to simply send the proper MTC from the host via virtual midi to the VST Connect plugin, this transits to the performer, here we get the actually session TC. All would be good :-).
Studios: Nuendo 10.3, Cubase 10 Pro, PT 11.3.1
I/O: Full blown Focusrite RedNet Setup. 3xRed4pre, 2xRed x2p
Plugins from Sonnox, Waves, iZotope, UAD, Plugin Alliance Mega Pack, and so on...)

Windows 10 Pro x64
Main System from Digital Audio Networx
Intel i9 14core, Gigabyte, 64GB Ram, GF 1050ti, UAD Quad, 3 * Avid Artis Mix

Pro Audio Broadcast Post for german and international clients
www.media-atelier.tv

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