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Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:43 pm
by Modest-Expert
It makes your music louder without distortion

But even if you mix your music at a very high level the listener can control his listening level with a volume button

So even if you mix it to sound terrific on subwoofer and discos at high level the listener can end up listening to you, on a little ipad speaker at very low level

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:25 am
by xerix
Modest-Expert wrote:It makes your music louder without distortion

But even if you mix your music at a very high level the listener can control his listening level with a volume button

So even if you mix it to sound terrific on subwoofer and discos at high level the listener can end up listening to you, on a little ipad speaker at very low level
Exactly this is why dubstep approach is to play 1 main sound at a time (other than drums) rather than many smaller ones.
Think of it this way:
- if I play a siren it will seem very loud
- if i play a siren with a drumloop it will sound less louder
- if i play a siren with a drumloop and a guitar it sounds even less louder
nomatter what compressor/limiter/maximizer u use

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:36 am
by Cube100
I have a question about inter-peak distortion / true peak.

What is the best way to detect and control this in Cubase?
I just premiered some audio in a classroom and the bass was rattling the ceiling speakers. Everything was exported with a limiter set to a 0db output (but with substantial input gain) so I'm wondering what causes this.

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:45 am
by Arjan P
Does that limiter have true peak detection? If so, you should switch that on - and even then, it's better to stay away from 0 dB. Especially if you want to encode the audio later (to mp3 for instance) you'll need extra headroom because the peaks will change from it. Personally, I now use -1 dB True Peak, but SoundCloud even recommends -2 dB TP for uploaded music!

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:01 pm
by Cube100
Arjan P wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:45 am
Does that limiter have true peak detection? If so, you should switch that on - and even then, it's better to stay away from 0 dB. Especially if you want to encode the audio later (to mp3 for instance) you'll need extra headroom because the peaks will change from it. Personally, I now use -1 dB True Peak, but SoundCloud even recommends -2 dB TP for uploaded music!
I'm using the stock Cubase limiter. I then threw a brickwall limiter on the Master Bus AFTER the limiter, and the brickwall is getting peaks about 0db on its input.
Does this mean in all my future projects, I should have a limiter set to -0.1 db, and then a brickwall right after it just to be safe?
Also, can someone explain to me what the UV22HR plugin is, and when I should use it?
Thanks.

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:00 pm
by Arjan P
Well, I never use limiters in Cubase so I don't know about true peak in it. But the issue will be with the limiter on the master bus, whether this is the brickwall or not makes no difference. I don't know where you put the one before it.. On every track?

Anyway, I was talking about -1 dB that I use on mastered tracks, not -0.1 dB!
The UV22HR is a bit reduction or dithering plugin. To be used whenever you got to a lower bit rate from a higher source (for instance from 32bit float to 24bit or 16bit).

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:47 am
by Cube100
Arjan P wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:00 pm
I don't know where you put the one before it.. On every track?
I put a limiter on the Masterbus. I then put a Brickwall Limiter in the slot directly after the limiter on the Master Bus. The Brickwall Limiter showed the signal going above 0dB, despite there being a limiter right before it on the slot.

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:04 pm
by Arjan P
Maybe the Brickwall Limiter does have True Peak detection and sees true peaks coming in through the other. But why use 2 limiters? And, however you do it, limiting to 0 dB (or anything above -1dB) is really not a good idea.

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:47 pm
by svennilenni
Cube100 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:36 am
I have a question about inter-peak distortion / true peak.
I just premiered some audio in a classroom and the bass was rattling the ceiling speakers. Everything was exported with a limiter set to a 0db output (but with substantial input gain) so I'm wondering what causes this.
The thing that is causing this is certainly the ceiling speakers being 100 V speakers.

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:48 am
by Cube100
[/quote]
The thing that is causing this is certainly the ceiling speakers being 100 V speakers.
[/quote]

??
I’m not even using speakers right now, just headphones?
I’m confused, the logic of a limiter is to limit, and it says it’s doing so in the plugin window, but there’s a peak signal when I add a Brickwall Limiter set to a 0dB threshold.

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:37 am
by svennilenni
Cube100 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:48 am
??
I’m not even using speakers right now, just headphones?
I’m confused, the logic of a limiter is to limit, and it says it’s doing so in the plugin window, but there’s a peak signal when I add a Brickwall Limiter set to a 0dB threshold.
Re-read what you wrote above and what I quoted...

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:35 pm
by Cube100
svennilenni wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:37 am
Cube100 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:48 am
??
I’m not even using speakers right now, just headphones?
I’m confused, the logic of a limiter is to limit, and it says it’s doing so in the plugin window, but there’s a peak signal when I add a Brickwall Limiter set to a 0dB threshold.
Re-read what you wrote above and what I quoted...
Ah you mean in the classroom, I see.
What’s the way to work around / prepare for distortion like that happening in hindsight?

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:45 pm
by Arjan P
Cube100 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:48 am
I’m confused, the logic of a limiter is to limit, and it says it’s doing so in the plugin window, but there’s a peak signal when I add a Brickwall Limiter set to a 0dB threshold.
In my previous reply I tried to explain. If one limiter does NOT have True Peak functionality, it is possible that another one after it that DOES have it, can detect these peaks coming in. Even though digitally nothing goes over 0 dB. As a test you can put two Cubase limiters after each other: I wouldn't expect any peaks coming out in the second limiter. (But again: why use 2 in a row?)

And ceiling speakers rattling from bass could happen with many signals, also far below 0 dB. A lot depends on the amplification, and 100V line systems do not have built in distortion, they can be very nice sounding also.

Re: Maximizer v. Limiter (v. Brickwall Limiter)?

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:45 pm
by DodgingRain
Arjan P wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:04 pm
Maybe the Brickwall Limiter does have True Peak detection and sees true peaks coming in through the other. But why use 2 limiters? And, however you do it, limiting to 0 dB (or anything above -1dB) is really not a good idea.
Using serial limiters is pretty common, same as serial compression. Reason being that doing several lower amounts of gain reduction results in better transparency and less of the sound of the limiter or compressor from coming through vs. just doing the limiting.