Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalone...

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rocketdude
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Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalone...

Post by rocketdude » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:03 pm

Having a problem with my sustain pedal. I'm using AKAI MPK261, Preset is set to Cubase, and I have loaded a XML-file in Cubase so I can remote control my DAW. Sustain pedal is connected to one of the footswitch ports, and it's function is set to "sustain" in the "Edit mode".

Sustain works as it should in all standalone programs.

But in Cubase, sustain is not working, nor recorded. Signal is recieved, and if I go into "Edit mode" on the MPK261, and change pedal function to play/stop, then I can use the pedal to start and stop the track in Cubase. So, the sustain function is not working, but if I change the pedal's function, it works for those given tasks.

Sustain worked perfectly in Cubase 7 Elements, but stopped working after upgrading to 8 Elements.

Since this is only an issue in Cubase, I think it's a software problem, and hasn't anything to do with the AKAI MPK261.

Any solutions? Thanks.

Using Win 7 64bit, Elements 8

Martin.Jirsak
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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalon

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:47 pm

Hi and welcome,

1) Make sure, Sustain is not used to trigger some functions in the Generic Remote Device.

2) Check Preferences > MIDI > MIDI Filter, and make sure Controller is not enabled in the Record, or Thru columns, or Controller 64 (Sustain) is not in the Controller list above.

3) Add a MIDI track, insert MIDI Monitor as a MIDI Insert effect. Keep the MIDI Monitor open, and press the Sustain Pedal. Check, if the signal is coming to the MIDI track and MIDI Monitor.

And describe us your results, please. ;-)
Martin Jirsak
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rocketdude
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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalon

Post by rocketdude » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:57 pm

I feel like a dumb***, but I'm really a total beginner at Cubase, and I have very little techinal understanding of MIDI. I need a step-by-step explanation for the simplest things.

1) How do I see if Sustain trigger any functions in the Generic Remote Device? I highlight the "Generic Remote" in Device Setup, and if I press any of the keys on the MPK261, I do not see any signal recievment. Is there any particual box I should tick/setting I should change here..?

See picture:
1.jpg
(485.99 KiB) Not downloaded yet
2) I made sure Controller is not enabled in the Record and Thru. I don't know about Controller 64... I scrolled down on the drop-down menu under Controller, until I found CC64 Sustain, marked in a red circle in the following pic. Should I remove the "CC64 Sustain" from Controller?

See picture:
2.jpg
(441.1 KiB) Not downloaded yet
3) Well, how exactly do I add a MIDI insert effect? I tried to read about Midi Monitor in the help-section of my Cubase, but I didn't find a single word about it. If you see in Pic1, what should I click on? I guess it's hidden in the Inspector to the left.

Maybe I've used Midi inserts many times without knowing it...but as I said, I have learned to use Cubase by trial and error all by myself, and there's very, very much technical stuff I do not know about. That getting small things like Sustain to work is this complicated, makes me wonder sometimes... but I'm gladful for your help!

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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalon

Post by Brian Roland » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:22 am

Sustain is typically a CC 64 event. CC64, 127 for pedal down/on, and CC64, 0, for pedal up/off.

For the most part CuBase itself should ignore CC64, and just happily pass (or record it to the track if recording) it on to whatever VSTi or external MIDI device you've an armed track set for. It'll be up to the listening instrument to respond (or not) to the CC64 message.

Note: The CuBase xml that Akai provides as a tutorial on their website has CC64 muting/unmuting daw tracks across the mixing desk editor! Not good!

So...

1. Make sure your generic remote map is NOT stealing CC64 and trying to do something DAW side with it.
Here's a thread discussing how I decided to set up my MPK2 (along with example maps).
http://community.akaipro.com/akai_profe ... elements-7

2. Double check your MIDI filters in the preferences/MIDI section. Make sure there is no filter for CC 64 events.

3. I have an old Yamaha pedal that is wired backwards from what the MPK2 expects, and it's my favorite pedal! I know this is an issue because if I pull up a MIDI monitor insert from the CuBase track inspector, I can see that my pedal sends 127 when I take my foot off, and 0 when I put it down. Exactly backwards of what we want!

Sadly the MPK2 series doesn't allow us to reverse the polarity of pedals plugged into the 1 and 2 pedal ports. If you're not running a continuous controller pedal, you could use port 3 which does allow you to reverse polarity from the MPK2 settings. I do have a nice Yamaha continuous controller pedal here that needs to go in port 3...and more than one of these 'backwards Yamaha stomp pedals'...so, I personally get around this by setting up a global transformer in CuBase to 'mirror' or 'invert' the incoming messages as needed. After that I just toggle the global on as I add more tracks and CuBase flips the pedal messages for me in real time.
Discussed here:
http://community.akaipro.com/akai_profe ... edal_issue

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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalon

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:59 am

Hi,

1) Scroll down in the upper upper chart of the Devices > Device Setup > Generic Remote. If you can see 64 in the Address column, this is the problem. Just delete this line, then, please. But be aware, this function you cannot control from your AKAI hardware.

2) MIDI Filter is set OK in your Preferences. Just keep it, as it is. The Controller 64 is not in the list.

3) Add a MIDI track. In the left part, open Inspector. Click to any slot and select MIDI Monitor from the list. Make sure, the MIDI Monitor plug-in is switched On. There is an On/Off button directly in the plug-in.
Martin Jirsak
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TENUTO
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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalon

Post by TENUTO » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:26 am

Hi,
I have exactly the same problem with the sustain pedal and MIDI device AKAI MPK249 and Cubase version 8.0.30 build 536.
When I run HALION 5 separately the sustain pedal work perfectly, but not in CUBASE ...
I have checked all the things mentioned in this topic.
* No port 64 in Generic remote device.
* No port 64 in MIDI Filter.
Is this an issue with this version of CUBASE? It worked earlier, but then on the other hand I had not installed HALION then ...
I'm out of further ideas, so please help! :oops:

Then another simple question.
If I turn off my MIDI device (MPK249) I must restart CUBASE in order for it to receive MIDI signals! Is that so, or is it possible to receive MIDI signals without restarting CUBASE ...


BR
Thomas
Last edited by TENUTO on Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grim
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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalon

Post by Grim » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:54 am

If I turn off my MIDI device (MPK249) I must restart CUBASE in order for it to receive MIDI signals! Is that so, or is it possible to receive MIDI signals without restarting CUBASE ...
You must always restart Cubase to see a newly connected midi device.
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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalon

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:30 pm

Grim wrote:
If I turn off my MIDI device (MPK249) I must restart CUBASE in order for it to receive MIDI signals! Is that so, or is it possible to receive MIDI signals without restarting CUBASE ...
You must always restart Cubase to see a newly connected midi device.
...On Windows only.

On Mac, newely connected MIDI Device is accepted and redy to use immediatelly.
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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalon

Post by Abraham Joseph » Wed May 18, 2016 1:55 pm

Hi, Im using the komplete Kontrol S61 and i have a problem with the pedal polarity. As a standalone the pedal polarity is alright but once i use the DAW the pedal polarity is switched. What can i do to make it work properly

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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalon

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Mon May 23, 2016 11:01 am

Hi,

The Pedal polarity is driven by the MIDI controller S61 in this case. Could you check in the MIDI Monitor, if it is really sending the opposite polarity? Could you check it via some 3rd party MIDI Monitor SW, please?
Martin Jirsak
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Brian Roland
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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalon

Post by Brian Roland » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:39 pm

In the case of owning a pedal that has the 'wrong polarity'. I have such a pedal, and my AKAI MPK2 doesn't have a firmware setting to invert it. In Cubase....

One can correct this. Simply 'invert' the CC64 event with a transform filter. In the transformer, use 'mirror' value 2, and set the transform value to 64 (the half way point between 0 and 127).

With this 'mirror' filter, a value of 0 gets flipped to 127, and vice verse.
A value of 63 would be flipped to 65. 65 gets flipped to 63.
A value of 2 would be flipped to 126, where 126 would get flipped to 2, and so forth....

Image

This transformer isn't limited to 'on/off' controllers. It could also be used to 'reverse' the direction that a continuios pedal, or even a pot or fader works.
I.E.
Imagine that you have two faders side by side on your MIDI controller, and you'd like to set them up as 'cross faders' where pulling them up or down 'together' would do a crossfade. Simply 'mirror' the right fader from a base value of 64, and it now works 'backwards'....
Last edited by Brian Roland on Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalone...

Post by dipzta » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:43 am

Hi. The picture of the Inverted Sustain signal in Transformer dont load anymore. Can someone repost?

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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalone...

Post by Brian Roland » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:19 pm

dipzta wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:43 am
Hi. The picture of the Inverted Sustain signal in Transformer dont load anymore. Can someone repost?
This isn't a Cubase 10 snapshot. It goes back to version 7, or something....but should still be valid enough to show how to set up a transformer.

Sorry, something changed over the years with those links, fortunately the images are still at the image hosting site so I fixed it above, and here it is again:

Image

Personally, I like to make it a 'global transformer', since the MPK2 is usually my master controller when working with Cubase. I set it once, and it seems to stick for good, in all my Cubase projects that way. Using this method, the inversion occurs very early in the routing, so tracks are actually recorded properly as well.
Last edited by Brian Roland on Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalone...

Post by Brian Roland » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:45 pm

dipzta,

Here is an updated set of screen shots with Cubase 10 Pro, step by step of how I set it up.

1. Select a MIDI or Instrument track. If you don't already have one, create it.

2. In the track inspector, click the "Input Transformer" icon, then select "Global" from the pop up.
Image

This should cause an input transformer window to pop up. Choose a Module that you're not already using. Build the transformer.

In this case, I do the CC64 mirror in module 1. Here's what it looks like:
Image

3. Make sure the module is 'active'. Clicking the little power icon by each tab toggles it active/inactive.

From now on, you should be able to easily enable/disable this same global transformer on any MIDI controlled track you want, in all future projects, by simply choosing "Input Transformer/Global" on a track by track basis as needed.

If you'd prefer all new tracks of a certain type (I.E. MIDI, or Instrument Tracks) be created with this enabled by default, then store a preset with your favorite defaults for the track type, and use that preset in the future when making new tracks of the same type.

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Re: Sustain signal not working in Cubase, works in standalone...

Post by Brian Roland » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:35 pm

Another note for AKAI MPK2 users...

I don't do it this way. I resort to a transformer in software as described above since I ALSO use a continuous CC pedal in port 3, but....

Do you have a continuous pedal/breath-controller/whatever plugged into EXPRESSION PORT?

If NOT, then you can try using that port instead, and invert the events in the MPK2. I don't know if it'll work for all pedals, and for everyone, but it's worth a try.

If you have a transformer active in Cubase as described above, disable it.

1. Plug your problem pedal into the EXPRESSION port, rather than switch ports 1 or 2.
2. Tap edit on the MPK2.
3. Stomp the pedal and let it up a few times, and on the MPK2 itself, Assign it to CC64, change: min value to 127 and the max to 0.

At this point, hopefully your sustain pedal works properly. If so, save the preset and global settings on your MPK2.

Note, if you use this 'port 3' method, then you do NOT need a global transformer anymore...as the MPK2 itself would be sending the proper event.

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