Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

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shagazulu
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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by shagazulu »

My 2 cents:

Can anyone say, "first world problems"?

Even when Steinberg announces compatibility with El Capitan, there's still gonna be lots of bugs... with users asking, demanding "when, when, when?"

This is the nature of digital.

Your VERY BEST BET and HOPE of having a fulfilling, creative, musical experience is to NOT upgrade. Stick with what works... wait for everyone else to test... then eventually swoop in 6 months later on your Joy plane and upgrade.

I tell you this from experience. I'm tired of banging my head against the wall to fix bugs. Bugs caused by the new OS, bugs caused by Cubase, bugs caused by third party plugins. Every new thing installed somehow f***s with what was already working... and then you try to find who's to blame... and half the time you end up wrong.

Those of you who bought a new computer with El Capitaln, well that sucks. Downgrade to Yosemite for 6 months, and enjoy.

What the digital world doesn't want you to know is that the people who upgrade right away when a product is "released" actually ARE the beta testers. You are buying products still in beta, though claimed to be ready. And so, if Steinberg is to blame, it is because they are playing the game like everyone else. Or rather, in this case, NOT playing the game which makes them look slower, relatively speaking.
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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by lebouch »

shagazulu wrote:My 2 cents:
Can anyone say, "first world problems"?
Agreed, although where do you draw the line? Assuming you're not living in poverty or a war zone is it acceptable to complain about anything? If your shiny new car gets keyed by the local sh1tbag should you just swallow it? "Never mind, at least I don't have (insert terminal condition here)"? Of course you don't. Everyone has a sliding scale of what constitutes a real concern or just irrelevant fluff.

I think you're generally spot-on but like so many other posters seem to suggest that their Mac's primary or indeed only use is Cubase. If your Mac is 100% for Cubase then you'd be daft to upgrade to El Capitan until Steinberg get their act together but lots have other equally as compelling and valid uses for their computers.
C8, Halion 4.5, Komplete 9u, Arturia V4, Omnisphere, Oddity 2, PPG Wave 3.V, Scarlett 18i6, iMac.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by Lasso »

SuStudio wrote:
New Mac? I have a brand new Mac Pro that I installed an older OS on by just downloading it and creating a boot drive. Apple even states that your previous OS downloads are stored on the App Store for you under the Purchases tab. Accessories? Apple is not the only place in town to buy an Apple trackpad. Don't fall for the MUST UPGRADE BS that Apple does every September - especially on an OS with such a rocky start.
Care to shed some light on how you did that? I just got a new mbp preinstalled with El Capitan which I was told can't be downgraded
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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by lebouch »

Lasso wrote:
SuStudio wrote:
New Mac? I have a brand new Mac Pro that I installed an older OS on by just downloading it and creating a boot drive. Apple even states that your previous OS downloads are stored on the App Store for you under the Purchases tab. Accessories? Apple is not the only place in town to buy an Apple trackpad. Don't fall for the MUST UPGRADE BS that Apple does every September - especially on an OS with such a rocky start.
Care to shed some light on how you did that? I just got a new mbp preinstalled with El Capitan which I was told can't be downgraded
As long as your specific model of MBP was released when Yosemite was still current then you should have no issues. Note I said your model of MBP, not your MBP.
You just need to download a copy of the Yosemite software from the Mac app store and create a bootable USB installer - http://www.macworld.com/article/2367748 ... drive.html
This will involve wiping your MBP's HDD completely of course. Even if your model of MBP is so new that El Capitan is all it's ever known you should still be able to do it, as long as there's no hardware in it that specifically needs El Capitan.
C8, Halion 4.5, Komplete 9u, Arturia V4, Omnisphere, Oddity 2, PPG Wave 3.V, Scarlett 18i6, iMac.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by atlatnesiti »

nlsmusic wrote:This is a absolute disgrace! I do understand that it is hard to keep up with all OS changes, but at least give us info what is happening!!
Well, to add the salt to the injury, Apple is already testing its next-generation operating systems, including iOS 10 for mobile devices and iPads, and OS X 10.12, code named “Fuji”.
As I mentioned before, Apple provides FREE beta OS's to anyone interested to test their apps at least 5 months in advance of official release. Obviously Sternberg doesn't participate or care to get involved and the results are obvious...

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shagazulu
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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by shagazulu »

As I mentioned before, Apple provides FREE beta OS's to anyone interested to test their apps at least 5 months in advance of official release.
Well, I'd like to point out that if one tests their app on a beta OS, they're just beta-testing the OS. And that's not a particularly great use of time and money. Wouldn't a smart company wait until the OS is nearly out of beta before beginning its own round of testing? And then, who knows how long it should take for problems to be sniffed out and fixed? It depends on the number, size, and difficulty of the problems... In my own app development experience, estimating a completion time is a total fool's errand. Truly.
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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by hejazzman »

shagazulu wrote:My 2 cents:

Can anyone say, "first world problems"?
Well, we ARE in the first world, so what is your point exactly?

When your internet connection is down, do you just shrug it off because that's a "first world problem" and others don't have food/shelter/etc?
shagazulu wrote:Your VERY BEST BET and HOPE of having a fulfilling, creative, musical experience is to NOT upgrade. Stick with what works...
Is it that difficult for people to understand that not everybody uses their computer JUST for music/Cubase?

That other factors might necessitate updating, from programming dependencies if you're a developer down to the simple fact that you bought a new Mac and it comes with El Capitan installed.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by hejazzman »

shagazulu wrote:Well, I'd like to point out that if one tests their app on a beta OS, they're just beta-testing the OS. And that's not a particularly great use of time and money. Wouldn't a smart company wait until the OS is nearly out of beta before beginning its own round of testing?
A "smart company" wanting to minimize expenses, yes.

A smarter company wanting to minimize the inconvenience of its paid users, no.

Developers regularly test on beta OSes. By the time the OS is announced in the WWDC in the first place, the developer betas have most of the changes and pieces in place. Public betas even more so. And in the GM, everything is in place.

We're not on that now though. We're 1.5 month past the stable release, and 2 weeks past the first point update.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by hejazzman »

Svenne wrote:There are lots of other reasons why equipment needs to be replaced. Why is it so hard to respect that others may simply want to keep their system up to date?
The funny thing is that an update to the software to support the new OS would also benefit THEM (the people who stayed with Yosemite), or at the very least will cause them no harm at all.

And they still feel the need to chime-in on a thread where people complain about the software they paid for not working on the new OS.

We don't want your opinion and you use cases, nor your BS advice. This is a thread about people seeking to get Cubase 8 to work on El Capitan. If you don't have El Capitan installed, this is not your problem, so buzz off.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by Svenne »

hejazzman wrote:Is it that difficult for people to understand that not everybody uses their computer JUST for music/Cubase?
Svenne wrote:There are lots of other reasons why equipment needs to be replaced. Why is it so hard to respect that others may simply want to keep their system up to date?
The same thing, really, isn't it?
hejazzman wrote:We don't want your opinion and you use cases, nor your BS advice. This is a thread about people seeking to get Cubase 8 to work on El Capitan. If you don't have El Capitan installed, this is not your problem, so buzz off.
What's your problem. Who are you insulting? Me or yourself? I don't know what your problem is, but please refrain from insulting comments like this.
Cubase Pro 8.5.20 + IC Pro, WaveLab Elements 9.0.30, Mac Pro 2.8GHz 8-core 8GB, 10.11.6 (El Capitan), MR 816X, Avid Control/Mix, iPad Air (128GB), Cubasis 2.0, iTrack Dock.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by hjwinge »

More interresting than such arguing, is that apple said El Caps main new feature is system optimization. Does those who already HAVE installed cubase on El Capitan see any difference in actual use?
Main studio: Cubase pro 10.5.2 Wavelab 9.5, mac pro middle 2012, saffire pro 40, waves 9, 10 and 11, t-racks, plugin alliance, superior drummer and komplete, and much more. Mackie D8B with probox DAW controller (MCU protocoll and Generic remote)

Classroom 1: imac with Cubase elements 10, saffire pro 40, behringer x32 as DAW controller MCU or MIDI/generic remote
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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by stevo23 »

What do you mean? It won't even start. I can't even re-install as even the installer crashes. So far, Steinberg is the only company left on my list who hasn't gotten up to speed. I wonder what major thing Apple did to so mess all of this up?

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by gkillmaster »

just got 3rd El Capitan Beta and Cubase Artists still crashes before it can load. just fyi
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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by Scatabrain »

Yeah, beta's are exactly for testing your software beforehand. That's a stated reason to get the beta. It's getting really late to still have this issue. Even Line6 stuff works now. It should be noted that in their case it was a beta release from Apple and not Line6 that made it work. I suspect that possibly it may be out of Cubase's hands as it was for Line6. Whatever built in driver or system resource that no longer exist may be a huge deal to work around. Would be nice if Cubase was more up front about it. Line6 didn't test during beta either and were caught on El Cap release day - oops. But it has been a month and Cubase should at least communicate to set our expectations. Thinking about asking for my money back. If we go too long we will learn to live without their product. It's too bad.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by WBISHC »

I contacted support and asked for an ETA on El Capitan compatibility, and got the following response a few hours ago.

"I’m sorry but we have not started supporting Mac OS 10.11 El Capitan yet: http://www.steinberg.net/en/newsandeven ... -3359.html

I’m sorry but there is not an ETA on when we will be supporting El Capitan. This is a joint development issue with Apple, which is part of the reason there is not a specific ETA on when it will be supported."

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by hejazzman »

Svenne wrote:
hejazzman wrote:Is it that difficult for people to understand that not everybody uses their computer JUST for music/Cubase?
Svenne wrote:There are lots of other reasons why equipment needs to be replaced. Why is it so hard to respect that others may simply want to keep their system up to date?
The same thing, really, isn't it?.
Yes, that's because I wasn't arguing against you, I was just adding on what you said.
Svenne wrote:
hejazzman wrote:We don't want your opinion and you use cases, nor your BS advice. This is a thread about people seeking to get Cubase 8 to work on El Capitan. If you don't have El Capitan installed, this is not your problem, so buzz off.
What's your problem. Who are you insulting? Me or yourself?
Neither, it's aimed (as the previous paragraphs allude to) at people who don't belong in this thread (e.g. because they haven't updated etc) and they feel justified to chime in a thread about people complaining about the incompatibilities, and school them for not waiting for the update etc, as if they know better when others needs to update.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by hjwinge »

stevo23 wrote:What do you mean? It won't even start. I can't even re-install as even the installer crashes. So far, Steinberg is the only company left on my list who hasn't gotten up to speed. I wonder what major thing Apple did to so mess all of this up?
Hi stevo, I have no idea why it will not even start on your mac, I installed elements on two different imacs and both works as on yosemite. No faster/slower that I can messure. I have ofcourse not tried on my production mac with Cubase 8pro. With the imac setups I havent seen the problems that steinberg are dealing with, so I can only asume it has to do with some soundcard/cubase/os x incompatible stuff. I have Saffire 40 soundcard and that is already compatible with el cap. Personally I dont have any reason to upgrade except for the speed increase in the OS, if there are any.
Main studio: Cubase pro 10.5.2 Wavelab 9.5, mac pro middle 2012, saffire pro 40, waves 9, 10 and 11, t-racks, plugin alliance, superior drummer and komplete, and much more. Mackie D8B with probox DAW controller (MCU protocoll and Generic remote)

Classroom 1: imac with Cubase elements 10, saffire pro 40, behringer x32 as DAW controller MCU or MIDI/generic remote
Classroom 2: mac pro 2011, Cubase elements 10.5, protools 11, scarlet 18i20, 3d gen

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by stevo23 »

I have Artist 8 on a one year old Macbook Pro. El Cap and Cubase hate each other in may case.

I can't find any reason whatsoever to upgrade to El Cap unless of course you want the new emoticons - I think they have the middle finger now. I do blame Apple for most of this mess - I've been upgrading machines since I got into Macs again and never ever have I had so many things broken like this. But by this time, It's now on Steinberg in my mind.

On my other macbook, I'm still on Yosemite, so I'm not dead in the water. But then I do this as non-profit work - not making a living off it.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by gkillmaster »

everytime a post to the thread pops up I think it might be the El Capitan fix!
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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by stevo23 »

Sorry! I know the feeling.

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by LazMan »

I don't think we are acheaving anything by argueing on each other.

Yes it is poor Steinberg has not solved this, but even worse is the lack of communication from their part.

Any information on progress, eta and so on would earn trust and lessen the frustration....

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by Svenne »

hejazzman wrote:Neither, it's aimed (as the previous paragraphs allude to) at people who don't belong in this thread (e.g. because they haven't updated etc) and they feel justified to chime in a thread about people complaining about the incompatibilities, and school them for not waiting for the update etc, as if they know better when others needs to update.
Any why do you insult me, then!!! By the way, you are a new member, you're not a moderator. It's not your place to say who belongs in this thread or not! If you're not careful, a moderator may decide that it's you who don't belong here. But, as I said, that's a question for the moderators to decide.
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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by Logico7 »

Any news about the compatibility with OS X El Capitan?
Why are You taking so long?????
I just want the DAW that I'd paid for, working good!!!

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by stevo23 »

WBISHC wrote:I contacted support and asked for an ETA on El Capitan compatibility, and got the following response a few hours ago.

"I’m sorry but we have not started supporting Mac OS 10.11 El Capitan yet: http://www.steinberg.net/en/newsandeven ... -3359.html

I’m sorry but there is not an ETA on when we will be supporting El Capitan. This is a joint development issue with Apple, which is part of the reason there is not a specific ETA on when it will be supported."
I hate to overanalyze this reply from Steinberg, but it's problematic for me. First, they say they're waiting for Apple - not sure why that would be. Is it not possible to fix this on their own? Second, it's heading for a month now and really no details or update even though they sort of promised they would keep us up to date. Third, "there is no ETA" seems rather like they're just not that interested in fixing it. I'm sure that's not true, but it just makes me wonder what they're really up to.

But the upside is that they say, "no ETA on when we will be supporting El Capitan". Not "we will not support it".

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Re: Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan status update on compatibility

Post by Patanjali »

stevo23 wrote:First, they say they're waiting for Apple - not sure why that would be. Is it not possible to fix this on their own?
Don't know anything about software development and third-party dependencies then? They probably cannot fix it on their own.

If a problem with software arises, and it's not clear whether the problem lies with one's own software, or the third-party one, then it requires some joint, and separate, discovery processes.

Now if one is a relatively small fry dealing with a mega enterprise that may not necessarily have a vital interest in your software working with their product, then you are largely, if not totally, at the mercy of that enterprise's timing priorities.

And one cannot always isolate by oneself exactly what it is an OS is doing that may be upsetting the cart. While your software may be doing the same calls to the OS it always has, if the 'magic' happening in the called OS function's logic has changed, and it doesn't provide a return code that indicates why the difference in the treatment of the call, then you are TOTALLY dependent upon the OS maker for resolution.

This is what happened with Windows 10 and MS changing how MCSS operated. MS fixed it, and suddenly everything across all SBs programs is OK, and SB gives the thumbs up. Even though the MS audio team lead is highly engaged in making things work, it still took the time it took to discover where the problem lay, work out the solution, and get the fix through their patch process, all nothing SB could do a thing about, until it was a fait accompli.

Certainly, once the patch dropped, SB was able to quickly test and certify that all their programs were compliant, which probably means they had already done all the rest of their regression testing, except for those bits affected by the outstanding issue. I suspect that SB would have done much the same with El Capitan, and once the issue is fixed, things may well move quickly here as well. That is, unless Apple has done one of their 'line in the sand' ideological cutoffs (such as with Firewire audio), for which SB may have to redesign the program to achieve its same functionality in other ways, with its consequent delays, though at least they could then have something to report to us.

Of course, MS might need to have, for their own priorities, not 'fixed' the changes in MCSS functionality, and SB would also have just had to do a functional redesign around it.
Last edited by Patanjali on Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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