Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

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crazyman72
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Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by crazyman72 » Fri May 13, 2016 9:39 am

Hello friends of the forum :)
I wanted to ask you when to use the Post-fader function?
and when the signal input?
Let me explain better: Let's say I have a project with 30 tracks of these 14 are vsti and audio remainder
I have to start mixing which display you should I choose Meters in the mixer to to make sure that when I start to adjust faders the sound I do not goes in Clip? :?
In logic I I remember there was the Pre-fader function in Cubase 8.5 there is no
So I was wondering to what to correspond Logic option in Cubase 8.5?
Thank you
:)

Martin.Jirsak
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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Sun May 15, 2016 8:44 pm

Hi,

In Cubase, right-click to the track in the MiXConsole, and select Global Meter Settings > Meter Position. Here, you can select:
- Input
- Post-Fader
- Post-Panner

Is this, what you are looking for? The same is for the Meter Bridge, of course.
Martin Jirsak
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crazyman72
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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by crazyman72 » Sun May 15, 2016 9:16 pm

it was what I was interested because Martin, so if I have to export all project tracks and then mix them, how should I view the meter (Input or Post-fader?
8-)

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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Sun May 15, 2016 9:26 pm

Hi,

I always use the default settings: Post-Panner. I'm always sure, I have no peak (clip) on the input of any track. The only one case would be FX or Group Channel. This is a little tricky. But I always check it, without an effects on the channel.

Then I have to take care, I don't clip while mixing. At the other hand, it's not my case very often. I don't have a problems with clipping very often. I'm mixing rather on the low levels.
Martin Jirsak
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crazyman72
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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by crazyman72 » Sun May 15, 2016 9:39 pm

So in theory see the meters in Input needed when recording audio tracks?
Wile viewing meter in Post-fader as long as I act on my slider right mixer?
ok I will try to do as you say, I'll let you know
thank you

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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Mon May 16, 2016 8:20 am

Hi,

While recording, you can see the Input signal on the Input Channel meters.
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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by crazyman72 » Wed May 18, 2016 9:53 am

Ok Thanks!
Martin!
:D

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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by fenders74 » Wed May 10, 2017 1:31 pm

There's no option to have a metering post insert but Pre Fader!! I think this is an absolut a stupid thing cause if I have for ex. 4 plugins in my insert chain but I leave the fader in a slow position with post fader meter setting I will never see if my insert chain clips!!! I have force to open the editor and see every single plugin. Is a complete non sense!!
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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by MIDIBoss » Sat May 04, 2019 1:09 am

Was this never resolved??? We need pre fader metering!

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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by svennilenni » Sat May 04, 2019 8:22 am

MIDIBoss wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:09 am
Was this never resolved??? We need pre fader metering!
As written above - we do have pre-fader metering!

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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by MIDIBoss » Tue May 07, 2019 11:02 am

svennilenni wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:22 am
MIDIBoss wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:09 am
Was this never resolved??? We need pre fader metering!
As written above - we do have pre-fader metering!
No, we do not. I want to see the level in the meter showing after the last insert in the FX chain (EQ, compression, etc) but BEFORE the fader level. The problem is, if the meter is set to "input" mode, you still only see the original level, no matter how much the level is actually boosted with EQ or compression BEFORE the fader. You can never tell what the actually gain structure is of the channel before it hits the fader. If you put it to "post fader" or "post panner" you can see this, but not if the fader is below "0". As soon as the fader is below "0" in post-fader or post-panner mode, the fader affects the level of the meter negatively which does not show an accurate description of what is actually happening after the last FX insert in the chain of a channel. It's silly. Logic and Pro Tools both have this.

This is most useful on percussion or drum tracks. I like to use VU plugins to meter my normal tracks but any tracks with fast transients like drums or percussion, I prefer to keep them at a nominal gain level of -6dbfs to assist with mixing. This helps me, and matches up well with my preferred gain level of -18dbVU = 0dbfs for mixing. Without a pre-fader (POST FX Insert) level showing on the mixer board no matter the fader positions, I have to load up more .vst metering plugins just to tell what the heck is going on at the end of the chain for tracks with fast transients. It's childish.

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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by svennilenni » Tue May 07, 2019 3:55 pm

MIDIBoss wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 11:02 am
svennilenni wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:22 am
MIDIBoss wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:09 am
Was this never resolved??? We need pre fader metering!
As written above - we do have pre-fader metering!
No, we do not. I want to see the level in the meter showing after the last insert in the FX chain (EQ, compression, etc) but BEFORE the fader level.
That´s why it is Always a good idea to clearly post what you mean. Meter Input is pre-fader, so yes we do have it. just not at the Position you would like to.
And how do you then make sure, the levels are ok in the Plugins and channel Strip processores before the last insert, or is it not important for you there, or do logic and Protools allow that at any position in the Signal flow?? And do you then constantly switch all metering Points for all channels..?

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Re: Post-fader / Pre-fader cubase 8.5

Post by MIDIBoss » Tue May 07, 2019 9:48 pm

svennilenni wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 3:55 pm
MIDIBoss wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 11:02 am
svennilenni wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:22 am


As written above - we do have pre-fader metering!
No, we do not. I want to see the level in the meter showing after the last insert in the FX chain (EQ, compression, etc) but BEFORE the fader level.
That´s why it is Always a good idea to clearly post what you mean. Meter Input is pre-fader, so yes we do have it. just not at the Position you would like to.
And how do you then make sure, the levels are ok in the Plugins and channel Strip processores before the last insert, or is it not important for you there, or do logic and Protools allow that at any position in the Signal flow?? And do you then constantly switch all metering Points for all channels..?
Sorry about being unclear, I just thought pre-fader meant what I described, where the signal hits the meter before the fader but after the last insert effect in your channel strip. That’s the way it works in Logic and Pro Tools, so I just assumed that it woild be clear. But anyway, yes that’s what I mean.

In Pro Tools and Logic you can tell the meters to show you the true signal level of the channel’s gain structure, and the meters will always show the true signal even after processing is applied. Obviously we should always keep our gain levels approximately the same if we are adding EQ/compression/etc. but sometimes if you need to work fast it’s not always ideal to setup lots of metering plugins to monitor track gain levels. If you being to work on the track, the easiest way to tell what’s happening with the gain is to set the meters to pre-fader.

Everyone works differently. For percussive/fast transient tracks I prefer to set them to nominal gain levels that matchup well with -18dbVU=0DBfs on the regular instrumental/vocal tracks. I find this helps me hit the master bus at a good target to send out for mastering almost everytime.

I don’t really ever use post-fader metering... I want to use my ears for mix levels, not the eyes, but I want to know what’s happening on the gain digitally too so as not to clip anything.

In Cubase, on input metering, it works pretty close to this way but its downfall is that it doesn’t show what’s happening after the FX chain processing. So you could be clipping your channel’s gain meter and not know it. It’s a bad design.

In Pro Tools and Logic I just leave pre fader metering on all the time. I mix with the faders and use trim plugins (similar to the pre-gain knob in Cubase) to adjust gain levels, even at the first insert on the master bus I do this to hit my intended target for pre-mastering levels.

I don’t understand how Cubase doesn’t have this option. It’s really my only “complaint” with an otherwise brilliant piece of software. I find myself happy to work around any of the other slightly off-kilter features, as long as I can stay away from buggy Pro Tools and don’t have to use a Mac (Logic) I’m happy! But I would love to have prefader metering because it would speed up my workflow to the speed I can get around in PT already.

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